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mark niemi
05-12-2003, 01:59 PM
Take a look at the backside of the track and you'll find ditches and concrete and tires.I'm talking about the area around the "bowl turn". Why won't the owners fix this stuff? It appears to me they don't care. They would fix it if they did.
Does it take a bad accident to motivate action on these issues?

Chuck Ergle
05-12-2003, 09:36 PM
What part of the left field line, near the foul post at the warning track, did this come from? After what, three or four years of racing this configuration? ????????

mark niemi
05-13-2003, 07:51 AM
Way out there I guess,Chuck. But that's no secret.What's wrong that? Anything?
We were setting out cones the other day at LSTD and it just reminded me again that the guy doesn't give a crap. I know he gets up in the morning know the problem exists and still doesn't care.Yearts of racing there and it still bothers me. I can remind everyone until it goes away or I can shut up and not remind anyone.But I'll stay in the outfield and love it.

Brooks Gremmels
05-13-2003, 09:56 AM
Mark is exactly right about the track owner seeming not to care. We have offered to move the wall, rather than swath it with air fence and he first says the SCCA has to get on board. Then the SCCA agrees to the change and we're told the cost to us would include reconfiguring drainage and lord knows what else.
As long as they can continue to raise the track rental prices and folks continue to pay it, nothing will change. In fact, with the advent of all of the track day income being generated today, the tracks are becoming less and less amenable to suggestions from thier "old" customers.
On the subject of track issues, have any of the racers who have been around awhile had issues or known of concerns about the "ditches" track-side going into turn 3 at OHR?
Brooks

05-13-2003, 10:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Brooks Gremmels:
have any of the racers who have been around awhile had issues or known of concerns about the "ditches" track-side going into turn 3 at OHR?
Brooks</div></div>We did have a novice accident there several years ago. The guy who got the worst of it ended up getting stopped head first by the ditch. Lots and lots of blood, helmet in pieces. Some weeks after the crash, his wife found him unconscious on the floor from an intercranial hemorrhage. He survived brain surgery and recovery.

Certainly, if people collide in the right hander before 3, it's not a nice place to land.

Brooks Gremmels
05-13-2003, 11:58 AM
Andre, I really appreciate your input on track issues and the support you have been offering. Thank you.
Aside from placing air fence (if that would work?) alongside the track going into turn three, I don't know what you'd do about the high embankments on both sides. Then there are the "ditches", in question. I don't know how you'd mitigate this concern given the amount of runoff that the "ditches" must carry. ??
Brooks

Andy Galindo
05-13-2003, 06:03 PM
Hey Brooks,
I mentioned something about that nasty turn 3 ditch at OHR several years ago. It has claimed many a fairing or two, and broken bone, or two. Cass Cooper got busted up there, and I was right behind Kurt Mueller (I think that's who it was) when he went into it. It's a nasty place to go off the track, cuz it'll cause an endo no matter what. Last time I looked it seemed to me a feasible fix would be to fill it with gravel at the very least, or re-grade it and add some drainage (like a french drain or something). I don't think it'd be terribly expensive.

As for TWS, yeah those walls (the one at turn 4 comes to mind here!) and ditches in the back section are hideous. I had never noticed that area Mark mentioned till this weekend either. Granted there's not many getoff's there, but god help him/her if there is. The air fence at turn 8a or 9 or whatever it is, is a wonderful fix for the time being, and the CMRA and others have done a great job to get that up. But track management needs to do something about, yes, re-doing the landscape including the ditches, and moving those godawful walls so that there is runoff there. Obviously this costs money, but it'd be nice to see some acknowledgement on their part, and maybe even an effort or two, instead of the "stalag-17-esque" search for pit bike infractions. Heck, even some bathroom maintenance would be nice. I'm not downplaying the pit bike issue, but they definately go too far.

cedestech
05-13-2003, 09:23 PM
I hope I am not jinxing myself by talking about it but the ditch outside the kink between T2 and T3 at Oakhill would be a fairly inexpensive
fix I would think with contractors fabric, septic rock and a box blade. We have a few contractors in the club and maybe we could get them involved?
A americanized "french drain" (along the lines of fredoom fries) would be nicer but more expensive/complex I believe. I am not a
dirt/drain/ditch kinda guy so I'd defer to anyone who worked in the feild.

Walter Walker
05-13-2003, 10:38 PM
The ditch at OHR has claimed alot of victims over the years. (including me /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif ) It is actually a wash that has been smoothed out several times but Mother Nature just puts it back. Don't forget The Grand Canyon started out as a little stream so a permanent fix may take a bit of work.

TXFZ1
05-13-2003, 10:45 PM
How about asking to fill the "big hole" inbetween T1 and T2 (on the outside) at TWS. Saw the results of an F4 that found it, wasn't pretty.

David

mark niemi
05-14-2003, 09:29 AM
I know the T4 wall at TWS could be fixed for nearly nothing. It's just a miracle Andy was not killed there last year.
One day's track rental fees could fix plenty.But it should not come out of our pockets this time. If it came down us paying, that's fine too.
One wheelie and Col. Klink wants to throw us out for endangering the human race but he wants to leave the stuff that's truly ridiculous.
I guess I've said enough. Maybe we can talk about it again next year...or right after someone gets hurt again.If I've offended any member of the BOD or membership, I'm sorry.You're all doing an excellent job.

Brooks Gremmels
05-14-2003, 03:02 PM
Never any offense about safety issues being raised.
Mark, I know that Frank was active on the Safety committee last year. If the two of you could submit a proposal on the changes that you see a need for, we'll get it in front of the TWS management and press the issue.
We are going to get a team to take a look at the turn three issues at OHR.
Andy's crash was the most frightening one I have ever witnessed.
Brooks

mark niemi
05-14-2003, 03:47 PM
Allrighty Brooks. We'll sit down this weekend. We'll try to have this thing to you by Hallet.Thank you for your efforts.
If anyone else has something they would like to include,now's a good time.You can e-mail suggestions to markniemi@sbcglobal.net. It can't hurt to try again.

marcus mcbain
05-20-2003, 04:01 PM
As someone who has gone off "the bend" entering T3 at OH, there is not a great solution (if you are talking about the ditch that runs on the outside of the bend and transitions to the inside of T3).

Most racers run wide and lose traction/crash. Smoothing out that ditch won't do crap for them as their momentum will carry them farther than just the "ditch". I think the hazards caused by the tire walls in 3 & 6 provide more danger than the T3 issue.

As Walter said, when you fix it, Mother Nature re-fixes it for you. Again, I don't believe smoothing out that ditch will do much for racers as they will be going way too fast in most cases to just end up there.

In regards to TWS track owner (Dick is his name if I remember right), the only time I have seen him smile on a motorcycle based weekend is when he is picking up the rent check...

Marcus

RisingR
05-27-2003, 12:24 PM
I don't understand why the car guys don't mind walls? I would think that a car is more likely to hit a wall than a bike and they are way more expensive to fix. I would think SCCA would be more than happy to have walls moved.

ysr612
05-28-2003, 06:26 AM
when I was racing cars they seem to go off on the inside more often the straight. They also have a roll cage that is incrediblly strong so your chance of getting hurt is minimal. Tire wall damages a car almost as much as armco.

David Branyon
06-03-2003, 06:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Marcus McBain:
<snip>In regards to TWS track owner (Dick is his name if I remember right), the only time I have seen him smile on a motorcycle based weekend is when he is picking up the rent check...
Marcus</div></div>I'm not sure, but I dealt with a guy in TWS mgmt named Rusty Rush and he was very decent and helpful with getting a tire to me that I had to have shipped to the track for a race weekend. He looked up my pit spot and left me a note and everything. Maybe he's not the top dog and that's the problem, but didn't want to lump them all into the "enemy" category.

marcus mcbain
06-12-2003, 03:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David Branyon #87:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Marcus McBain:
<snip>In regards to TWS track owner (Dick is his name if I remember right), the only time I have seen him smile on a motorcycle based weekend is when he is picking up the rent check...
Marcus</div></div>I'm not sure, but I dealt with a guy in TWS mgmt named Rusty Rush and he was very decent and helpful with getting a tire to me that I had to have shipped to the track for a race weekend. He looked up my pit spot and left me a note and everything. Maybe he's not the top dog and that's the problem, but didn't want to lump them all into the "enemy" category.</div></div>Yeah,

I know Rusty very well. He is the Business Manager (GM I think) for TWS. He is a nice enough guy. I don't think I lumped him in with the track owner.

Marcus

mark niemi
06-16-2003, 09:09 AM
Thanks BOD for the safety improvements this past weekend at TWS. I know your efforts can be limited by the track owner's attitude. I believe you guys are doing the best job that can be done and I think we all made good decisions when we elected you.Thanks again guys.

Eric Heddles
07-05-2003, 05:15 AM
You know, there is a CMRA member (or used to be) that is a PE - civil engineering. I'm sure he would volunteer some time to look at this "drainage"issue.