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Andy Galindo
07-21-2003, 09:43 PM
Hi Brooks and BOD,

I am generally only full of praise for the CMRA, the BOD and its staff. But this time I feel a little different- specifically with regard to the refund policies.

On Saturday at Hallett, having found that after working on it all day Friday and getting only 2 practice sessions, our endurance bike- also my sprint bike for Sunday- was still failing. The problems are of an electrical nature, and I elected to pull out of my Sunday races due to lack of parts.

Out of $110 in registration fees I am only receiving a $30 refund, and I find that preposterous, and even greedy. In my nine years with the CMRA, what few refunds I obtained were given without question or ďpenaltyĒ. Why has the CMRA suddenly elected to enforce this policy (which Nancy pointed out IS in the CCS rulebook)? Have we not been with CCS for a few years now? To my recollection, last year this self-serving policy was not enforced, and I know of one instance where an injured rider was able to "roll-over" his fees to a future race. A solution like that would appease me, but for the club to just keep 73% of the money is nuts! First, you penalize us $10 for not pre-registering. Understandably! I know how long lines get and I don't like standing in them either. And I know that Nancy and Co. prefer to see short lines themselves and have a smoother day. But this "refund policy" only encourages people to register at the last minute, and not risk losing their money in case of injury/ mechanical/ personal. I am more than willing to pay the associated administrative costs to cancel (right now I guess that stands at $10, but I'd be willing to double or even triple that! How much can it really cost to cancel out of a race?). I am well aware the CMRA is a business and has Insurance costs, track rental fees, etc, and has to make ends meet. Well, surprise folks. I also have many costs. My salary has not increased, yet your fees increase, as do many other fees and costs of living. I also now have to spend more money to get my bike working again so that indeed I can visit with the friendly, fast, and fun CMRA folks and spend some more money. But I'm starting to feel a little differently now- This policy is insulting! If I had gotten hurt on Friday or Saturday, and then to be belted with something like this on top of all the anguish and medical costs?! Talk about taking advantage of one's hardship!

Am I the first one to complain? Am I alone here in thinking that this is not fair? I spoke at length with Nancy about this (and also apologized for getting a little perturbed) and she suggested I write to the BOD. So here it is... I would request that something be done to remedy this insane policy for your upcoming rulebook. Furthermore, can I get a refund please? Take your administrative costs, and give me the rest. But explain to me how the CMRA has spent $80 to sign me up for two races, and then to cancel me out. Reminder: I cancelled on Saturday, BEFORE Sunday even started, yet Nancy remarked that I had already practiced. Excuse me, but I think that was a different cost, one that I paid for to practice on Friday and again to race on Saturday.
I just can't make this add up. Iím not asking for sympathy, Iím just asking for what is honest and fair.

Yours truly,
Andy Galindo
Exp #46

mark niemi
07-22-2003, 07:45 AM
I agree with Andy on this. I can't see why we need to keep that much money.I was more than a little surprised when he told me.
I'd like to see this "rule" modified too. It really takes away the incentive to pre-register. What is something happens on endurance day? What if the bike blows on practice day? Anyways, you get the picture.
You guys are doing a great job.I wish we could keep all of you(whether you like it or not).

Nancy Selleck
07-24-2003, 11:58 AM
Andy, I agree with much of what you have said here. I believe that as the CMRA is in the process of writing the 2004 rulebook, it is a perfect time to review the refund and cancellation policies (among others) and get them down in black and white.

I understand your frustration with the change in refund policy from previous years. Unfortunately, when I started working for the CMRA there was no written refund/cancellation policy specific to CMRA. From talking to both racers and staff, I have determined that prior to this year there was no "standard" policy for refunds. It was a moving target and your refund may have depended on who you were, what time of day it was or maybe if it was a full moon or not. Because of this, I was forced to use the one in the CCS rulebook.

My goal is to be fair, consistent and equitable to every CMRA member regardless of who they are and whether or not I liked my lunch on any given day.

I'm sure the Board of Directors is open to any suggestions on this subject as well as any other policy/rule change.

Eric Kelcher
07-24-2003, 05:00 PM
Nancy there was a standard refund policy printed on sheetmetal. It was located in the trailer.

Nancy Selleck
07-24-2003, 05:51 PM
Thanks, Eric.

I haven't seen that piece of sheetmetal; I'll have to ask Walter if he saw it when he cleaned out the old trailer.

Any idea why it was printed on sheetmetal, but not in the rulebook?

Chuck Ergle
07-24-2003, 08:15 PM
Eric, we're using the refund policy posted in the CCS rulebook, so as to make things consistent for our racers. When we are again independent, I'm sure we'll come up with a more equitable refund policy, publish it, and enforce it accordingly.

Andy Galindo
07-25-2003, 07:21 AM
Well, thanks for replying. In the end I don't mind playing by the rules, so long as they are known beforehand (I wouldn't have pre-registered), and this one definately surprised me.

I guess I'll just have to get it back in the form of some prize money... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

At the very least know that you have 1 very strong vote for a reasonable change to this policy.

Nancy Selleck
07-25-2003, 10:40 AM
Andy, any suggestions toward the change in policy? What seems reasonable to you?

John Orchard
07-25-2003, 11:08 AM
One suggestion might be to at least receive a full refund while registration is still open.

At the first Hallett, I went in to try and withdraw my pre-registration for the GT race and found the the rules said in order to receive a full refund, I would have had to submit my request in writing PRIOR to registration opening.....? Doesn't make much sense.

I'm looking forward to some reasonable flexibility in the future!

JesseJohnson
07-25-2003, 11:19 AM
How about this?

Pre-registration - up to day before - 100% minus a administrative fee.

Pre-registration - day of event, up to end of practice - 75% back minus admin fee?

regular registration - up to end of practice - 50% back minus admin fee and late registration fee?

The admin fee is to cover credit card expenses, Nancy and Derek's time.

Jess

mark niemi
07-25-2003, 12:10 PM
Jess, I think you've got a great, balanced solution. I DO think the club should keep some money to cover everyone's time. That's a must.
Man you guys are responsive. I'm proud of you.

waytooslow
07-25-2003, 12:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Nancy Selleck:
Thanks, Eric.

I haven't seen that piece of sheetmetal; I'll have to ask Walter if he saw it when he cleaned out the old trailer.

Any idea why it was printed on sheetmetal, but not in the rulebook?</div></div>It is in my garage... after we took possesion of the old trailer.. I hung on to it, just forgot to bring it back... I'll look for it. If needed.

Scott

Eric Kelcher
07-25-2003, 01:17 PM
Just a thought if after practice deduct practice fee. Maybe include something about full grid no refund or do a waiting list if grid is full? Normally only been a problem at MSR with endurance.

Why was it never in rulebook? I don't know I forgot it, but we did have a sign that explained it so never thought about it being needed.

waytooslow
07-25-2003, 02:24 PM
Found the sign. Here is what is says:
-------------------------------------------
Refund Policy
No Refunds After Practice

Endurance
To receive a refund for endurance entry
1) Bring your reciept to registation
2) Make your request before pratice closes
You will recieve 1/2 your entry fee

Sprint
Saturday
To receive refund for sprint entries on Saturday
1) Bring your receipt to registration
2) make your request before practice closes at 5:00 PM
You will receive full sprint entry fees
No Rain Refunds
Sunda
To receive refund for sprint entries on Sunday
1) Bring your receipt to registration
2) make your request before practice closes
You will receive 1/2 of your sprint entry fee
No Rain Refunds
--------------------------------------------------

I'll bring it with me to next race, of course it doesn't help that it was not up at the last few races. but for what it is worth...

Scott

Norm McDonald
07-25-2003, 04:16 PM
This year we are still conected to CCS and were going by thier rule book. We will change this in the CMRA rule book for 2004 and make it member friendly. Another reason for having our own rule book. Norm

Andy Galindo
07-27-2003, 10:23 AM
Oh, sorry I guess after all my ranting I never came up with an actual solution. Jess's solution sounds pretty good to me. Definately if one is racing on Sunday and cancels out on Saturday (or earlier), full refund minus administrative fee only. If one cancels out on Sunday before practice should carry less of a penalty (maybe full minus admin fee minus 20% or something). If cancel during or after practice, maybe admin fee and 25-50% penalty like Jess suggested. No rain refunds is understandable. But I think the simpler the policy the better.

Thanks for caring! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Brett
07-29-2003, 06:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Jess Johnson:
How about this?

Pre-registration - up to day before - 100% minus a administrative fee.

Pre-registration - day of event, up to end of practice - 75% back minus admin fee?

regular registration - up to end of practice - 50% back minus admin fee and late registration fee?

The admin fee is to cover credit card expenses, Nancy and Derek's time.

Jess</div></div>For the most part I like this, but I would change it to "up to start of races". If you wad, causing practice to end, and won't be able to race because you've done something truly spectacular, you should be able to get some money back. I would vote for 100% - practice fee - admin fee.

JesseJohnson
07-30-2003, 09:43 AM
Don't crash in practice! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Norm McDonald
07-30-2003, 09:49 AM
We will be having a BOD meeting very soon. This topic will be fixed and we will post it as soon as we have an answer. Thanks Norm

Clayton Werner
07-30-2003, 02:53 PM
I know that this happened to me at the beginning of the year due to my crash at TWS. I was in the hospital and had my friend withdraw me from the sprints on Sunday. After getting my refund, I emailed Nancy back and forth for a few days. My decision was to not pre-enter any more. If you went all season without pre-entering a single time you would only lose $10 more than if you had to cancel one race weekend with 3 pre-entered races.

I agree with Jess's suggestion, and hope that the club revises this policy next year.

Eddie Burk
08-18-2003, 09:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Jess Johnson:
How about this?

Pre-registration - up to day before - 100% minus a administrative fee.

Pre-registration - day of event, up to end of practice - 75% back minus admin fee?

regular registration - up to end of practice - 50% back minus admin fee and late registration fee?

The admin fee is to cover credit card expenses, Nancy and Derek's time.

Jess </div></div>Why would we want to keep any of the entry money if the person cancels before the start of the first race? I understand that there needs to be *some* deducted for administration costs, but to keep 50% , plus, admin costs seems a little steep. What is the basis for keeping the cash? Also, why the large difference between a same day cancel if your not preregistered?

cedestech
08-19-2003, 06:11 AM
For Practice time. Actually not the time but the insurance. If you've turned a wheel in hot pit lane you've used the same amount of insurance you would have for a full days racing.

David Branyon
08-19-2003, 10:11 AM
Yes, and there is a set fee ($35 I think?) if you just want to practice on a day that you're not racing. If you went to practice and then withdrew very shortly afterwards (how to define?) so that you are not messing up posted grids and such, then maybe you get your money back minus practice and admin fee. I'd keep admin fee down at $10 if possible, $20 max, to keep up the motivation to pre-register.

I quit pre-registering for sprints for these same reasons. Just too much risk.

Eddie Burk
08-19-2003, 01:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
For Practice time. Actually not the time but the insurance. If you've turned a wheel in hot pit lane you've used the same amount of insurance you would have for a full days racing. </div></div>Out of curiosity then, how is that figured? Is the insurane bought on a "per person" basis? Because if it's not, I believe what your saying to be incorrect. I would have thought it would be more of a blanket type policy...but hey, I have been wrong before.

Norm McDonald
08-19-2003, 03:05 PM
This year we went by the CCS rule book. This week the BOD will be setting our own rules for 2004. We will be changeing the rule, it will be in our new rule book. It will be fair. Thanks Norm

Brooks Gremmels
08-20-2003, 10:04 AM
Regardless of the new rules that may be implemented concerning refunds there will be a specific exemption applied to Eddie Burke. Ed will be required to to wash the CMRA trailer prior to any consideration of a refund he might make.
Brooks