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Chris Headley
10-26-2003, 08:48 AM
I just heard that this season's endurance class champions will not be receiving 1/2 price entry fees for next season as we have for the past 2 seasons. Is this true? And if so, can you please explain the rationale behind the decision?

Someone told me that this was addressed in the Inside Line, but I must have missed it.

Thanks BOD

Chris Headley
10-26-2003, 08:48 AM
I just heard that this season's endurance class champions will not be receiving 1/2 price entry fees for next season as we have for the past 2 seasons. Is this true? And if so, can you please explain the rationale behind the decision?

Someone told me that this was addressed in the Inside Line, but I must have missed it.

Thanks BOD

Eric Kelcher
10-26-2003, 11:15 PM
http://www.frenzy.com/UBB/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000731

Chris I think this is the link and discussion that you were looking for about what happens for next year's champs' discounts. ie 19??-2003 champs recieve 50% discount off sprint and endurance entry

Eric Kelcher
10-26-2003, 11:15 PM
http://www.frenzy.com/UBB/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000731

Chris I think this is the link and discussion that you were looking for about what happens for next year's champs' discounts. ie 19??-2003 champs recieve 50% discount off sprint and endurance entry

John Orchard
10-27-2003, 09:21 AM
Whoa!!! I missed any announcement of that change as well. PLEASE tell me that doing away with the full 50% discount to the class champions is just a bad rumor!?! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

The time, effort, money and all in all commitment that it takes to field a class 'championship' level team all year long is no small amount. The reward of 1/2 price entry fees the following year, while small in comparison to what we, and other teams, put into the season, is a reward that we had in the forefront of our minds each weekend. As this reward became a real possibility toward the end of the season we put even more effort, time and money into our endurance weekends. The Short Bus team is really looking forward to the benefits of winning our class and would be truly disappointed to hear that this benefit had changed at this point.

John Orchard
10-27-2003, 09:21 AM
Whoa!!! I missed any announcement of that change as well. PLEASE tell me that doing away with the full 50% discount to the class champions is just a bad rumor!?! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

The time, effort, money and all in all commitment that it takes to field a class 'championship' level team all year long is no small amount. The reward of 1/2 price entry fees the following year, while small in comparison to what we, and other teams, put into the season, is a reward that we had in the forefront of our minds each weekend. As this reward became a real possibility toward the end of the season we put even more effort, time and money into our endurance weekends. The Short Bus team is really looking forward to the benefits of winning our class and would be truly disappointed to hear that this benefit had changed at this point.

Nancy Selleck
10-27-2003, 09:23 AM
Chris, it was mentioned on page 5 of The Inside Line, issue #5.

"2004 EXPERT CHAMPION ENTRY DISCOUNTS

$30 discounts: Unlimited GP, Singles GP, Medium GP, Light GP, Unlimited Supersport, Heavy Supersport, Medium Supersport, Light Supersport, Heavy Superbike, Medium Superbike, Light Superbike, Super Twins, Thunderbike, Medium Sportsman, Light Sportsman, Formula 40, Light Production Mini.

CMRA ENDURANCE CHAMPION TEAM DISCOUNTS

$80 discounts: Unlimited GP, Unlimited Supersport, Medium Superbike, Medium Supersport, Light Superbike.

MINI ENDURANCE CHAMPION TEAM DISCOUNTS

$30 discounts: Light Production Mini, Super Light Mini, Medium Mini, Heavy Mini."

Nancy Selleck
10-27-2003, 09:23 AM
Chris, it was mentioned on page 5 of The Inside Line, issue #5.

"2004 EXPERT CHAMPION ENTRY DISCOUNTS

$30 discounts: Unlimited GP, Singles GP, Medium GP, Light GP, Unlimited Supersport, Heavy Supersport, Medium Supersport, Light Supersport, Heavy Superbike, Medium Superbike, Light Superbike, Super Twins, Thunderbike, Medium Sportsman, Light Sportsman, Formula 40, Light Production Mini.

CMRA ENDURANCE CHAMPION TEAM DISCOUNTS

$80 discounts: Unlimited GP, Unlimited Supersport, Medium Superbike, Medium Supersport, Light Superbike.

MINI ENDURANCE CHAMPION TEAM DISCOUNTS

$30 discounts: Light Production Mini, Super Light Mini, Medium Mini, Heavy Mini."

Joseph Browning
10-27-2003, 10:50 AM
I know this is a hard sale but let's face the facts. If there are 5 class winners and each team has 5 members, that's only 25 people out of the entire CMRA who directly benefit more from the old discount.
Vinyl Edge, Desert Rats, Village Idiots, Shortbus, and Faltless are all champs because they tried just a little harder than the guys behind them on the same bikes. Let's not set a precedence of changing procedures mid-season for the benefit of, or at the cost of, racers

Joseph Browning
10-27-2003, 10:50 AM
I know this is a hard sale but let's face the facts. If there are 5 class winners and each team has 5 members, that's only 25 people out of the entire CMRA who directly benefit more from the old discount.
Vinyl Edge, Desert Rats, Village Idiots, Shortbus, and Faltless are all champs because they tried just a little harder than the guys behind them on the same bikes. Let's not set a precedence of changing procedures mid-season for the benefit of, or at the cost of, racers

Chris Headley
10-27-2003, 11:26 AM
Just to be clear, my concern is only related to the entry fees associated with endurance racing. Can someone please explain why the 50% entry fees were taken away for previous season's Endurance Class Champions? This hurts big time. I did some quick math and determined that offering the 50% entry fees only costs the club $3,800 (38 hours of endurance racing * $40/hr * 5 Classes *50%) based on this season's # of hours endurance raced. In it's place for next season, the club is offering an $80 discount to the previous season's class champions. Assuming 6 endurance races next season, that will add up to a cost to the club of $2400 (6 races * $80 * 5 class champions). So, REALLY, the club is only saving $1400. ($3800-$2400) I think the benefit and good will of the 50% entry fees FAR exceeds a minor $1400 savings to the club.

Having this incentive for returning teams helps tremendously and I don't understand why it is being taken away. Is the club looking for money and found some by simply offering up this $80 discount in place of the 50%? Didn't the club just increase the cost per hour for endurance racing this past season?

Would a BOD member please explain to me the rationale behind this?

Thanks

Chris Headley
10-27-2003, 11:26 AM
Just to be clear, my concern is only related to the entry fees associated with endurance racing. Can someone please explain why the 50% entry fees were taken away for previous season's Endurance Class Champions? This hurts big time. I did some quick math and determined that offering the 50% entry fees only costs the club $3,800 (38 hours of endurance racing * $40/hr * 5 Classes *50%) based on this season's # of hours endurance raced. In it's place for next season, the club is offering an $80 discount to the previous season's class champions. Assuming 6 endurance races next season, that will add up to a cost to the club of $2400 (6 races * $80 * 5 class champions). So, REALLY, the club is only saving $1400. ($3800-$2400) I think the benefit and good will of the 50% entry fees FAR exceeds a minor $1400 savings to the club.

Having this incentive for returning teams helps tremendously and I don't understand why it is being taken away. Is the club looking for money and found some by simply offering up this $80 discount in place of the 50%? Didn't the club just increase the cost per hour for endurance racing this past season?

Would a BOD member please explain to me the rationale behind this?

Thanks

Eric Kelcher
10-28-2003, 10:14 AM
Chris it says 2004 expert champion discounts you are a 2003 champion, so by what I read the BOD has given pretty good notice for what classes to run next year, but some classes don't convert to the new classes so still a little confusing.
Any word on purse classes?

Eric Kelcher
10-28-2003, 10:14 AM
Chris it says 2004 expert champion discounts you are a 2003 champion, so by what I read the BOD has given pretty good notice for what classes to run next year, but some classes don't convert to the new classes so still a little confusing.
Any word on purse classes?

Chris Headley
10-28-2003, 03:32 PM
Well, just so we all can be clear, can I get an answer from the BOD on the following questions:

As the 2003 Middleweight Superbike Championship team in the Big Bike Endurance Series, will my team be receiving the 50% discount on entry fees for the 2004 season? (we will be returning next season)

If not, Will be offered the $80 discount on entry fees? What is the reasoning behind this change?

Thanks

Chris Headley
10-28-2003, 03:32 PM
Well, just so we all can be clear, can I get an answer from the BOD on the following questions:

As the 2003 Middleweight Superbike Championship team in the Big Bike Endurance Series, will my team be receiving the 50% discount on entry fees for the 2004 season? (we will be returning next season)

If not, Will be offered the $80 discount on entry fees? What is the reasoning behind this change?

Thanks

Joseph Browning
10-28-2003, 10:12 PM
I'm kind of curious about this myself...

Joseph Browning
10-28-2003, 10:12 PM
I'm kind of curious about this myself...

Brooks Gremmels
10-30-2003, 11:00 AM
Let me add a couple of broader comments to this thread.
We are waiting for the accountant to wrap up the season's financials and the summaries will be included in the newsletter (certainly by the Awards banquet). If this season turns out like the past couple of years, the club will earn about $20,000 (after including the Award's Banquet, jackets and trophy costs).
The BOD has been working hard to meet the rising costs of doing business, allocating monies to pay track deposits out to two years in advance, budgeting a sprint T/S system and building an operating reserve (to cover such potential eventualities as legal defence, etc.). All of this in addition to the fact that as racers who understand the costs involved, wanting to keep fees as low and rewards as high as possible.
This is a difficult balancing act. But it is working. We have a new scoring system, purses are paid, the injured rider's fund is solvent. Facing what could have been a disasterous year with an almost complete turnover in staff, the club is solidly on its feet.
To meet the above objectives there has been a single modest fee increase and a change in the manner the series championship discounts are applied. A referendum was held at the first TWS event this season in which the vote was decidedly in favor of revising the way the sprint champion's discounts would be applied. The question regarding this same issue for endurance champions was not posed in the referendum but the thinking when it came time to make the decision was that the opinion of the members would track those voting on the sprint discount issue.
The idea is not to hurt or diminish the efforts of any of our racers, especially those who succeed in becoming champions. If the numbers are correct regarding the revisions, it doesn't add up to a big burden for those affected (in fact, the year-end purse of $1,000 to each championship team exceeds the value of the lost discount). On the other hand the number isn't large enough to encourage the BOD to want to earn the ill will of the members. The Board will reconsider the decision accordingly. But I'd like to make the point that we are all in this together. It isn't a BOD making arbitrary decisions without regard for fellow members. The Board tries to the right thing for the overall club and it seems like the process is working pretty well most of the time. If there is something that needs attention let's get on it.
In a related note, I'd like to make another point. The decision to return the club to Independent status was not made with the idea in mind to "save" some $25,000 to $30,000 a season. The decision was made because the questions of value received could not be answered in the affirmitive. The club will still need to administer insurance, contingency, rulebook, membership cards, etc. The money "saved" by not paying a sanctioning fee will be applied to handling those commitments, to holding the line on fee increases, adding to purses, etc.
Sorry for the length of this response.
Brooks

Brooks Gremmels
10-30-2003, 11:00 AM
Let me add a couple of broader comments to this thread.
We are waiting for the accountant to wrap up the season's financials and the summaries will be included in the newsletter (certainly by the Awards banquet). If this season turns out like the past couple of years, the club will earn about $20,000 (after including the Award's Banquet, jackets and trophy costs).
The BOD has been working hard to meet the rising costs of doing business, allocating monies to pay track deposits out to two years in advance, budgeting a sprint T/S system and building an operating reserve (to cover such potential eventualities as legal defence, etc.). All of this in addition to the fact that as racers who understand the costs involved, wanting to keep fees as low and rewards as high as possible.
This is a difficult balancing act. But it is working. We have a new scoring system, purses are paid, the injured rider's fund is solvent. Facing what could have been a disasterous year with an almost complete turnover in staff, the club is solidly on its feet.
To meet the above objectives there has been a single modest fee increase and a change in the manner the series championship discounts are applied. A referendum was held at the first TWS event this season in which the vote was decidedly in favor of revising the way the sprint champion's discounts would be applied. The question regarding this same issue for endurance champions was not posed in the referendum but the thinking when it came time to make the decision was that the opinion of the members would track those voting on the sprint discount issue.
The idea is not to hurt or diminish the efforts of any of our racers, especially those who succeed in becoming champions. If the numbers are correct regarding the revisions, it doesn't add up to a big burden for those affected (in fact, the year-end purse of $1,000 to each championship team exceeds the value of the lost discount). On the other hand the number isn't large enough to encourage the BOD to want to earn the ill will of the members. The Board will reconsider the decision accordingly. But I'd like to make the point that we are all in this together. It isn't a BOD making arbitrary decisions without regard for fellow members. The Board tries to the right thing for the overall club and it seems like the process is working pretty well most of the time. If there is something that needs attention let's get on it.
In a related note, I'd like to make another point. The decision to return the club to Independent status was not made with the idea in mind to "save" some $25,000 to $30,000 a season. The decision was made because the questions of value received could not be answered in the affirmitive. The club will still need to administer insurance, contingency, rulebook, membership cards, etc. The money "saved" by not paying a sanctioning fee will be applied to handling those commitments, to holding the line on fee increases, adding to purses, etc.
Sorry for the length of this response.
Brooks

John Orchard
10-30-2003, 11:43 AM
Brooks, thank you for your thorough response. These kind of posts are always appreciated! I look forward to your decision after reconsidering the championship discounts.

John Orchard
10-30-2003, 11:43 AM
Brooks, thank you for your thorough response. These kind of posts are always appreciated! I look forward to your decision after reconsidering the championship discounts.

Brooks Gremmels
10-30-2003, 11:52 AM
I guess the main thing I would like to stress is the idea that the BOD recognizes it serves the membership. I hate the concept of an "us" BOD versus "them" membership. Awhile back it seemed there were a couple of folks who were trying to paint such a scenero. That never made sense because there is absolutely no reward in that situation. The only reward is getting an answer like John's, above.
Brooks

Brooks Gremmels
10-30-2003, 11:52 AM
I guess the main thing I would like to stress is the idea that the BOD recognizes it serves the membership. I hate the concept of an "us" BOD versus "them" membership. Awhile back it seemed there were a couple of folks who were trying to paint such a scenero. That never made sense because there is absolutely no reward in that situation. The only reward is getting an answer like John's, above.
Brooks

John Orchard
12-11-2003, 02:35 PM
I thought I would bring this to the top and ask if a final decision has been made on the extent of the championship discount for the 2003 champions - most specifically the endurance champion discount of 50% off of our 2004 entry fee?

Real incentives for championships are a key to keeping entries at a high level throughout the year. Without something legitimate to chase throughout the year, it's easy for some teams or individuals to skip a race here or there. The purse money was certainly one great example of that kind of incentive. Half off entry fees are another great incentive imo. I'm hopeful that they're both available for the 2003 champions as well as future class champions.

Thanks in advance for the re-consideration.

John Orchard
12-11-2003, 02:35 PM
I thought I would bring this to the top and ask if a final decision has been made on the extent of the championship discount for the 2003 champions - most specifically the endurance champion discount of 50% off of our 2004 entry fee?

Real incentives for championships are a key to keeping entries at a high level throughout the year. Without something legitimate to chase throughout the year, it's easy for some teams or individuals to skip a race here or there. The purse money was certainly one great example of that kind of incentive. Half off entry fees are another great incentive imo. I'm hopeful that they're both available for the 2003 champions as well as future class champions.

Thanks in advance for the re-consideration.

Steve McNamara
12-12-2003, 07:37 AM
John,

The 1st B.O.D. meeting for 2004 will be January 10th. This will be a covered topic as part of our complete budget/forecast for the 2004 season. Hopefully in our meeting we will have a better picture of where and how the club will allocate it's funds throughout the year. The B.O.D. will make an announcement after we have a clearer picture of the financial affairs for 2004.

Steve McNamara
12-12-2003, 07:37 AM
John,

The 1st B.O.D. meeting for 2004 will be January 10th. This will be a covered topic as part of our complete budget/forecast for the 2004 season. Hopefully in our meeting we will have a better picture of where and how the club will allocate it's funds throughout the year. The B.O.D. will make an announcement after we have a clearer picture of the financial affairs for 2004.

John Orchard
01-20-2004, 09:07 AM
Wanted to check on the current official word on this topic. Thanks in advance for reconsidering this topic.

John Orchard
01-20-2004, 09:07 AM
Wanted to check on the current official word on this topic. Thanks in advance for reconsidering this topic.

Nancy Selleck
02-12-2004, 02:11 PM
The Board has decided to stick with the discounts as printed in The Inside Line.

Big Bike Endurance Class Champions $80 per championship.
Mini Endurance Class Champions $30 per championship.
Expert Class Champions $30 per championship.

Nancy Selleck
02-12-2004, 02:11 PM
The Board has decided to stick with the discounts as printed in The Inside Line.

Big Bike Endurance Class Champions $80 per championship.
Mini Endurance Class Champions $30 per championship.
Expert Class Champions $30 per championship.