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wbclick
11-16-2003, 07:58 PM
all kidding aside i feel that all the racing should be on the track under green flag conditions
when the red comes out bikes are parked on pit road and not touched untill the restart is called
pretty ez ,,,,,,,,,,makes for better racing ,,your not as likley to get screwed by a red flag this also helps penelize the people that caused the red flag,,,,,,,

wbclick
11-16-2003, 07:58 PM
all kidding aside i feel that all the racing should be on the track under green flag conditions
when the red comes out bikes are parked on pit road and not touched untill the restart is called
pretty ez ,,,,,,,,,,makes for better racing ,,your not as likley to get screwed by a red flag this also helps penelize the people that caused the red flag,,,,,,,

cedestech
11-16-2003, 08:14 PM
Billy has a good point and I know people
are about 50/50 about it.

How does someone (Mr. Click) go about officialy petitioning the powers that be on a endurance rule change?

cedestech
11-16-2003, 08:14 PM
Billy has a good point and I know people
are about 50/50 about it.

How does someone (Mr. Click) go about officialy petitioning the powers that be on a endurance rule change?

Walter Walker
11-16-2003, 10:49 PM
He just did. I'll take a look at it and pass it on to the BOD.

Walter Walker
11-16-2003, 10:49 PM
He just did. I'll take a look at it and pass it on to the BOD.

cedestech
11-17-2003, 06:18 AM
No 9 page , noterized form in triplicate?

Tisk, Tisk.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

cedestech
11-17-2003, 06:18 AM
No 9 page , noterized form in triplicate?

Tisk, Tisk.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Bryan Norton
11-17-2003, 12:14 PM
This has been looked at in the past....the CMRA has run events both ways.

I feel that the benefits of allowing riders to correct safety issues on their bikes during red flags outweighs the rule.

Think of this: A team is in the hunt for a podium. It is a close battle between only a few teams. A red flag is called, the lead team notices a loose bolt holding on the (fill in the blank here...Ill say Footpeg). With the 'no red flag work' they can not fix it.

What do you think the team will do? Wait after the restart to fix the bike, or go out there and try to tough it out?

Allowing the teams to work on their bikes during a red flag lets them check and correct tires, loose/broken bolts, and other safety gear.

I like the spirit of 'no work during red flag' but I tend to lean more toward the safety benefits.

Of Course my BoD term is about to expire, so flame away /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Bryan Norton
11-17-2003, 12:14 PM
This has been looked at in the past....the CMRA has run events both ways.

I feel that the benefits of allowing riders to correct safety issues on their bikes during red flags outweighs the rule.

Think of this: A team is in the hunt for a podium. It is a close battle between only a few teams. A red flag is called, the lead team notices a loose bolt holding on the (fill in the blank here...Ill say Footpeg). With the 'no red flag work' they can not fix it.

What do you think the team will do? Wait after the restart to fix the bike, or go out there and try to tough it out?

Allowing the teams to work on their bikes during a red flag lets them check and correct tires, loose/broken bolts, and other safety gear.

I like the spirit of 'no work during red flag' but I tend to lean more toward the safety benefits.

Of Course my BoD term is about to expire, so flame away /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

John Orchard
11-17-2003, 01:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
...I like the spirit of 'no work during red flag' but I tend to lean more toward the safety benefits.</div></div>I agree with this with Bryan's sentiment.

Not working on the bikes during a red flag is probably the fairest approach possible, the law of averages does eventually even out advantages/disadvantages for all teams under the current rules.

John Orchard
11-17-2003, 01:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
...I like the spirit of 'no work during red flag' but I tend to lean more toward the safety benefits.</div></div>I agree with this with Bryan's sentiment.

Not working on the bikes during a red flag is probably the fairest approach possible, the law of averages does eventually even out advantages/disadvantages for all teams under the current rules.

mnellis
11-17-2003, 09:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
Think of this: A team is in the hunt for a podium. It is a close battle between only a few teams. A red flag is called, the lead team notices a loose bolt holding on the (fill in the blank here...Ill say Footpeg). With the 'no red flag work' they can not fix it.

What do you think the team will do? Wait after the restart to fix the bike, or go out there and try to tough it out?

Allowing the teams to work on their bikes during a red flag lets them check and correct tires, loose/broken bolts, and other safety gear.
</div></div>The red flag allowed the team to notice the safety or problem area. If there were no red flag then the issue would have gone unnoticed until it failed and then the team would have had to fix the problem under a green flag anyway.

Fixing the problem once the track is again green allows the teams to once again race a safe bike but does not penalize those who would not have had to pit were it not for the red flag.

What's not fair about that? Those that prep their bike properly and conserve their tires ought not be penalized.

mnellis
11-17-2003, 09:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
Think of this: A team is in the hunt for a podium. It is a close battle between only a few teams. A red flag is called, the lead team notices a loose bolt holding on the (fill in the blank here...Ill say Footpeg). With the 'no red flag work' they can not fix it.

What do you think the team will do? Wait after the restart to fix the bike, or go out there and try to tough it out?

Allowing the teams to work on their bikes during a red flag lets them check and correct tires, loose/broken bolts, and other safety gear.
</div></div>The red flag allowed the team to notice the safety or problem area. If there were no red flag then the issue would have gone unnoticed until it failed and then the team would have had to fix the problem under a green flag anyway.

Fixing the problem once the track is again green allows the teams to once again race a safe bike but does not penalize those who would not have had to pit were it not for the red flag.

What's not fair about that? Those that prep their bike properly and conserve their tires ought not be penalized.

Chuck Ergle
11-17-2003, 10:13 PM
This was discussed and debated at length by the board of directors, and we decided to allow work on bikes under the red flag. Endurance racing is all about luck and preparation; some teams will be caught out by red flags, and some will be advantaged. Other teams will have good luck on the track, and others won't. I've been endurance racing long enough to have seen all extremes, and I think it all comes out in the wash. I think (my personal opinion) the only reason WERA changed the rule to disallow work under the red flag was because there were too many "Team Suzuki Red Flags", and they had to make things fair for teams not bright enough to instruct their riders to flop around on the track or point to an imaginary oil line after a crash. I'm for allowing red flag work.

Chuck Ergle
11-17-2003, 10:13 PM
This was discussed and debated at length by the board of directors, and we decided to allow work on bikes under the red flag. Endurance racing is all about luck and preparation; some teams will be caught out by red flags, and some will be advantaged. Other teams will have good luck on the track, and others won't. I've been endurance racing long enough to have seen all extremes, and I think it all comes out in the wash. I think (my personal opinion) the only reason WERA changed the rule to disallow work under the red flag was because there were too many "Team Suzuki Red Flags", and they had to make things fair for teams not bright enough to instruct their riders to flop around on the track or point to an imaginary oil line after a crash. I'm for allowing red flag work.

E. Templet
11-23-2003, 05:33 PM
I've ridden 2 endurance races with WERA and I love the Red Flag Rule. You can't even walk around your bike much less touch anything. If you want to do anything to the bike,you have to make the 1st lap of the restart then bring the bike in. Simple, safe, and gives no one an advantage. During the Red Flag the Tire Guy comes out to check tires on bikes and before the restart, WERA allows one rider and one mechanic to the bike.

It doesn't all come out in the wash.
The race is no less safe that it would be had the red flag not occured.
No team gets an unfair advantage.
Who has loose bolts, Bryan. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif J/K of course.

Chuck, it's not fair to accuse a race team of less than sportsman like actions, or suspect another race clubs reasoning for changing their rules. I suspect that WERA's reasoning was merely addressing concerns of the membership. Clubs do that on occassion, don't they. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

E. Templet
11-23-2003, 05:33 PM
I've ridden 2 endurance races with WERA and I love the Red Flag Rule. You can't even walk around your bike much less touch anything. If you want to do anything to the bike,you have to make the 1st lap of the restart then bring the bike in. Simple, safe, and gives no one an advantage. During the Red Flag the Tire Guy comes out to check tires on bikes and before the restart, WERA allows one rider and one mechanic to the bike.

It doesn't all come out in the wash.
The race is no less safe that it would be had the red flag not occured.
No team gets an unfair advantage.
Who has loose bolts, Bryan. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif J/K of course.

Chuck, it's not fair to accuse a race team of less than sportsman like actions, or suspect another race clubs reasoning for changing their rules. I suspect that WERA's reasoning was merely addressing concerns of the membership. Clubs do that on occassion, don't they. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

wbclick
11-24-2003, 02:43 PM
gene i like the way your thinking ,,,you can helpmake this happen keep up the good work....

wbclick
11-24-2003, 02:43 PM
gene i like the way your thinking ,,,you can helpmake this happen keep up the good work....