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Eric Kelcher
11-20-2003, 11:38 AM
Never seen anything this extensive before. The emergency contacts always had been done on a race by race basis as I like others I am sure have different people that may be with us or could be contacted. so is this really needed preseason or do we have to fill that form out each weekend?

Second on the insurance stuff, are we going to have medical coverage next year? if so what deductible? what limit? do we have to have personal medical insurance to race?

Eric Kelcher
11-20-2003, 11:38 AM
Never seen anything this extensive before. The emergency contacts always had been done on a race by race basis as I like others I am sure have different people that may be with us or could be contacted. so is this really needed preseason or do we have to fill that form out each weekend?

Second on the insurance stuff, are we going to have medical coverage next year? if so what deductible? what limit? do we have to have personal medical insurance to race?

Derek Delpero
11-20-2003, 01:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Eric Kelcher:
Never seen anything this extensive before. The emergency contacts always had been done on a race by race basis as I like others I am sure have different people that may be with us or could be contacted. so is this really needed preseason or do we have to fill that form out each weekend?
</div></div>I've always been curious about how people perceive the emergency contact. Maybe someone on the BoD could shed some light as to what criteria is used to determine whether an emergency contact is actually contacted.

My take on the emergency contact (for me anyway) is some one who, if I were in a situation where I was unable to make a medical decision for myself, would be legally able to make that decision.

I see a lot of forms where people put their friends as the emergency contact and really wonder why. AFAIK, none of my friends have any legal ability to make a medical decision for me. And personally I wouldn't ever want to put that responsibility on any of my friends.

Derek Delpero
11-20-2003, 01:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Eric Kelcher:
Never seen anything this extensive before. The emergency contacts always had been done on a race by race basis as I like others I am sure have different people that may be with us or could be contacted. so is this really needed preseason or do we have to fill that form out each weekend?
</div></div>I've always been curious about how people perceive the emergency contact. Maybe someone on the BoD could shed some light as to what criteria is used to determine whether an emergency contact is actually contacted.

My take on the emergency contact (for me anyway) is some one who, if I were in a situation where I was unable to make a medical decision for myself, would be legally able to make that decision.

I see a lot of forms where people put their friends as the emergency contact and really wonder why. AFAIK, none of my friends have any legal ability to make a medical decision for me. And personally I wouldn't ever want to put that responsibility on any of my friends.

Nancy Selleck
11-20-2003, 06:13 PM
This form is really meant for pre-season and will not be filled out at each event.

This new form has room for two different emergency contacts.

Emergency contact can be two different things: someone at the track for immediate assistance with gear, etc. and someone who actually needs to make legal/medical decisions for the rider.

This form offers a place for both.

Nancy Selleck
11-20-2003, 06:13 PM
This form is really meant for pre-season and will not be filled out at each event.

This new form has room for two different emergency contacts.

Emergency contact can be two different things: someone at the track for immediate assistance with gear, etc. and someone who actually needs to make legal/medical decisions for the rider.

This form offers a place for both.

cedestech
11-22-2003, 09:21 AM
<<Second on the insurance stuff, are we going to have medical coverage next year? if so what deductible? what limit? do we have to have personal medical insurance to race?>>

We've never had medical coverage and you know it.

If you are actually relying on the trackday
insurance you have more problems then wondering
what the coverages are.

$50 a month spent on a major/excessive medical
policy is money much better spent then
relying on the coverage we carry. I'd
prefer the club to do away with it entirely.

IMHO.

cedestech
11-22-2003, 09:21 AM
<<Second on the insurance stuff, are we going to have medical coverage next year? if so what deductible? what limit? do we have to have personal medical insurance to race?>>

We've never had medical coverage and you know it.

If you are actually relying on the trackday
insurance you have more problems then wondering
what the coverages are.

$50 a month spent on a major/excessive medical
policy is money much better spent then
relying on the coverage we carry. I'd
prefer the club to do away with it entirely.

IMHO.

Eric Kelcher
12-03-2003, 12:33 PM
Emmett CMRA under it various associations with CCS and WERA as well as independence has had supplemental insurance for at least 15 years varying in cap limit from 5k to 10k and deductible variations also 80/20, 1k, 80/20 with 1k

and just an example (http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=7963) of when it is needed even with personal insurance

could we get an answer?

Eric Kelcher
12-03-2003, 12:33 PM
Emmett CMRA under it various associations with CCS and WERA as well as independence has had supplemental insurance for at least 15 years varying in cap limit from 5k to 10k and deductible variations also 80/20, 1k, 80/20 with 1k

and just an example (http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=7963) of when it is needed even with personal insurance

could we get an answer?

JesseJohnson
12-03-2003, 01:24 PM
Eric, the CMRA will have some sort of insurance or emergency medical fund to cover accidents just as it has for the last few years. There will probably continue to be a 5k cap, and will be in effect after any personal medical coverages. The BOD is still discussing how to implement this, as well as the requirement for riders to carry major medical coverage. We are also trying to find a group rate on major medical coverage for those who don't already have it.

I'm pretty sure this will be part of the next BOD meeting.

Jess

JesseJohnson
12-03-2003, 01:24 PM
Eric, the CMRA will have some sort of insurance or emergency medical fund to cover accidents just as it has for the last few years. There will probably continue to be a 5k cap, and will be in effect after any personal medical coverages. The BOD is still discussing how to implement this, as well as the requirement for riders to carry major medical coverage. We are also trying to find a group rate on major medical coverage for those who don't already have it.

I'm pretty sure this will be part of the next BOD meeting.

Jess

cedestech
12-03-2003, 02:01 PM
My point exactly. He had $3000 that his
insurance company wouldn't pay.

How much of that would our "insurance" have
paid? Even if it was $2000 after the deductible
is it really worth what we pay for the policy?

Having a $3K bill after a hospital visit may suck but it is a possibility you need to accept
if you are going to race. If you coddle
people to not be responsible for there own
medical bills then whats next?

"I can't go racing this weekend because I
have run out of money for tires"

Maybe we should have "tire wear out insurance"?

The "club" with it's obviously incredibly deep
pockets should subsidize all aspects of participation for the people who can not
actually afford to race.

Like the senior prescription drug care bill
it sounds allot like a unfunded mandate to me.

Of course currently this one is funded though isn't it?

I'd like to know how many people actually use the insurance and at what cost to the club.

Maybe we'd be financially better of just
contributing a designated portion of
entry fee's to the injured riders fund and
using that instead.

cedestech
12-03-2003, 02:01 PM
My point exactly. He had $3000 that his
insurance company wouldn't pay.

How much of that would our "insurance" have
paid? Even if it was $2000 after the deductible
is it really worth what we pay for the policy?

Having a $3K bill after a hospital visit may suck but it is a possibility you need to accept
if you are going to race. If you coddle
people to not be responsible for there own
medical bills then whats next?

"I can't go racing this weekend because I
have run out of money for tires"

Maybe we should have "tire wear out insurance"?

The "club" with it's obviously incredibly deep
pockets should subsidize all aspects of participation for the people who can not
actually afford to race.

Like the senior prescription drug care bill
it sounds allot like a unfunded mandate to me.

Of course currently this one is funded though isn't it?

I'd like to know how many people actually use the insurance and at what cost to the club.

Maybe we'd be financially better of just
contributing a designated portion of
entry fee's to the injured riders fund and
using that instead.

cedestech
12-03-2003, 02:02 PM
BTW: Jess fix your freaking avtar or remove it!

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

cedestech
12-03-2003, 02:02 PM
BTW: Jess fix your freaking avtar or remove it!

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

JesseJohnson
12-03-2003, 05:28 PM
What's wrong with my avatar? Emmett you are like way hyped up on caffiene or something /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

J

JesseJohnson
12-03-2003, 05:28 PM
What's wrong with my avatar? Emmett you are like way hyped up on caffiene or something /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

J

Brooks Gremmels
12-05-2003, 10:18 AM
Jess is right when he says the BOD will make the final determination regarding club-subsidized medical insurance coverage for next season.
This topic has been well covered this season both in The Inside Line and the BBS. Some of the points covered were:
The fact that $4,000 (net) supplimental medical insurance doesn't cover much nowadays (examples such as the $11,000 that Gary Sinclair was billed in College Station for X-rays, scans and exam-he was back at the track 3 hours later, were provided).
The fact that major medical expenses are those most likely to be lifestyle-disrupting and therefore Major Medical coverage is the most critical coverage to carry.
The fact that anyone competing on a race track should be mature enough to recognize the responsibility (personally, to family and to fellow competitors) for carrying adaquate insurance both life and medical ("adaquate" is not defined as a $4,000 supplimental policy!).
The fact that the club spends over $30,000 annually for coverage that has provided some $4,000 annual in reimbursements (in 2003 the number was $2,000).
The fact that the great majority of club members carry their own insurance therefore subsidizing those who have chosen not to provide their own coverage.
Let me add personally that whether it is the cost of a bike, the costs of maintaining good tires or the costs of providing your family with a reasonable level of security should the unthinkable occur that makes it impossible at a given time to go racing, so be it. Racing is a sport, a hobby not a right. Make sure you have your priorities straight and Then come on out to the track and get it on. Bting it!
Brooks

Brooks Gremmels
12-05-2003, 10:18 AM
Jess is right when he says the BOD will make the final determination regarding club-subsidized medical insurance coverage for next season.
This topic has been well covered this season both in The Inside Line and the BBS. Some of the points covered were:
The fact that $4,000 (net) supplimental medical insurance doesn't cover much nowadays (examples such as the $11,000 that Gary Sinclair was billed in College Station for X-rays, scans and exam-he was back at the track 3 hours later, were provided).
The fact that major medical expenses are those most likely to be lifestyle-disrupting and therefore Major Medical coverage is the most critical coverage to carry.
The fact that anyone competing on a race track should be mature enough to recognize the responsibility (personally, to family and to fellow competitors) for carrying adaquate insurance both life and medical ("adaquate" is not defined as a $4,000 supplimental policy!).
The fact that the club spends over $30,000 annually for coverage that has provided some $4,000 annual in reimbursements (in 2003 the number was $2,000).
The fact that the great majority of club members carry their own insurance therefore subsidizing those who have chosen not to provide their own coverage.
Let me add personally that whether it is the cost of a bike, the costs of maintaining good tires or the costs of providing your family with a reasonable level of security should the unthinkable occur that makes it impossible at a given time to go racing, so be it. Racing is a sport, a hobby not a right. Make sure you have your priorities straight and Then come on out to the track and get it on. Bting it!
Brooks

mnellis
12-05-2003, 07:18 PM
Brooks, those numbers make no sense at all to me (or you I'm sure). Why doesn't the club just "self ensure" itself and agree to pay up to $2000 or so per incident? Even if the club had a bad year and had to pay out 10 claims (@$4000/claim), we'd still be making money if the historical number you quoted stay consistent.

We have this same problem in our restaurants. We pay over $25K/year for workers comp insurance for maybe $1500 in claims. I doesn't make much Business sense (or sense in general) to pay those kinds of premiums and we've changed things as a result.

In the case of CMRA do those premiums provide any other protection, liability for example, or is that a seperate policy.

God, I hate dealing with insurance but the numbers are so staggering you have to pay close attention to it.

Mike
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Brooks Gremmels:

The fact that the club spends over $30,000 annually for coverage that has provided some $4,000 annual in reimbursements (in 2003 the number was $2,000).
The fact that the great majority of club members carry their own insurance therefore subsidizing those who have chosen not to provide their own coverage.
</div></div>

mnellis
12-05-2003, 07:18 PM
Brooks, those numbers make no sense at all to me (or you I'm sure). Why doesn't the club just "self ensure" itself and agree to pay up to $2000 or so per incident? Even if the club had a bad year and had to pay out 10 claims (@$4000/claim), we'd still be making money if the historical number you quoted stay consistent.

We have this same problem in our restaurants. We pay over $25K/year for workers comp insurance for maybe $1500 in claims. I doesn't make much Business sense (or sense in general) to pay those kinds of premiums and we've changed things as a result.

In the case of CMRA do those premiums provide any other protection, liability for example, or is that a seperate policy.

God, I hate dealing with insurance but the numbers are so staggering you have to pay close attention to it.

Mike
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Brooks Gremmels:

The fact that the club spends over $30,000 annually for coverage that has provided some $4,000 annual in reimbursements (in 2003 the number was $2,000).
The fact that the great majority of club members carry their own insurance therefore subsidizing those who have chosen not to provide their own coverage.
</div></div>

cedestech
12-06-2003, 01:33 AM
One thing that someone who "actually" thinks this
medical insurance is justified could do is apply
for a Visa/Mastercard good for at least $5000. Bank, rate and terms unimportant. Put it in the back of your wallet and NEVER use it unless you take a trip to the hospital. It's good at any
hospital in the country and you can pay it back
at your convenience.

Makes allot more sense then burdening your fellow
racers with a worthless insurance premium that
helps out the absolute minority of riders.

Of coarse that is part of the problem with
many people today. Entitlement has become a
way of life.

cedestech
12-06-2003, 01:33 AM
One thing that someone who "actually" thinks this
medical insurance is justified could do is apply
for a Visa/Mastercard good for at least $5000. Bank, rate and terms unimportant. Put it in the back of your wallet and NEVER use it unless you take a trip to the hospital. It's good at any
hospital in the country and you can pay it back
at your convenience.

Makes allot more sense then burdening your fellow
racers with a worthless insurance premium that
helps out the absolute minority of riders.

Of coarse that is part of the problem with
many people today. Entitlement has become a
way of life.