PDA

View Full Version : Jr. Mini Motard?



Jiveturky
02-22-2004, 08:55 PM
BOD,

First of all I would like to thank all of you for the great weekend I spent with my 8 year old son (Ethan) racing at OHR. Jr. Motard was an excellent idea. It really makes the event more fun for the whole family. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I do have a couple of suggestions that might help the class become more popular to kids and parents. You see, my son was racing the xr 50 by the rules (pipe only) and did not have a chance against the TTR 90's. The whole way home he was asking me how he can do better next time. I told him that he did great, but the other kids bike's are faster than his. Is there anyway we can even up the playing field here for other manufacturers to compete in this race? I support the Honda product line and would like to be able to stick with the bike. My son however, will get discouraged if he cannot do any better than 6th place. Someone at the track mentioned this class is a noncompetative class. I think that is rediculous because there is nothing noncompetative about racing and to send our kids that mixed message is silly. Think about it, "now junior don't worry about it the other kids just have a faster bike". Then here comes dad in from the track talking under his breath about the guy running an oil cooler, and that is against the rules. As if the other guys oil cooler was the reason he got beat. If we don't want to allow mods because of money then please re-think that issue as well, and let me buy a $350 bore kit instead of a $1700 motorcycle, $300 front wheel, and $125 set of tires. I don't want to cause waves or anymosity with any of you on this BOD but my son wants to compete. The solution above looks to be easy enough but incase it is not I have another idea that will cost the club nothing. We give out placks to all the kids so why not split the class into light and heavy, and run them together. This would allow PW-50's, xr-50's, drz-50's, and klx-50's to all run together and then the xr-70's, ttr-90's to run as well. This approach might allow the participation of the DRZ, and KLX 110's. This way the small kids can ride their small bikes and get a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd plack instead of a 6th, 7th, or 8th. I realize that some of you might think I should feel lucky enough just to have my kid able to participate and I want to re-emphasize the fact that I am ver greatful. But I also think with just a little more thought we can make it even better. I can't imagine that the cost to get 7 heavy class placks printed and 5-6 light class placks printed as appossed to 11 of the same to be much different. But if there is a cost difference I will pick up the tab in full for the whole season. You tell me how much and I will right the check at the next event.

Sincerely,

Eric Yost

Jiveturky
02-22-2004, 08:55 PM
BOD,

First of all I would like to thank all of you for the great weekend I spent with my 8 year old son (Ethan) racing at OHR. Jr. Motard was an excellent idea. It really makes the event more fun for the whole family. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I do have a couple of suggestions that might help the class become more popular to kids and parents. You see, my son was racing the xr 50 by the rules (pipe only) and did not have a chance against the TTR 90's. The whole way home he was asking me how he can do better next time. I told him that he did great, but the other kids bike's are faster than his. Is there anyway we can even up the playing field here for other manufacturers to compete in this race? I support the Honda product line and would like to be able to stick with the bike. My son however, will get discouraged if he cannot do any better than 6th place. Someone at the track mentioned this class is a noncompetative class. I think that is rediculous because there is nothing noncompetative about racing and to send our kids that mixed message is silly. Think about it, "now junior don't worry about it the other kids just have a faster bike". Then here comes dad in from the track talking under his breath about the guy running an oil cooler, and that is against the rules. As if the other guys oil cooler was the reason he got beat. If we don't want to allow mods because of money then please re-think that issue as well, and let me buy a $350 bore kit instead of a $1700 motorcycle, $300 front wheel, and $125 set of tires. I don't want to cause waves or anymosity with any of you on this BOD but my son wants to compete. The solution above looks to be easy enough but incase it is not I have another idea that will cost the club nothing. We give out placks to all the kids so why not split the class into light and heavy, and run them together. This would allow PW-50's, xr-50's, drz-50's, and klx-50's to all run together and then the xr-70's, ttr-90's to run as well. This approach might allow the participation of the DRZ, and KLX 110's. This way the small kids can ride their small bikes and get a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd plack instead of a 6th, 7th, or 8th. I realize that some of you might think I should feel lucky enough just to have my kid able to participate and I want to re-emphasize the fact that I am ver greatful. But I also think with just a little more thought we can make it even better. I can't imagine that the cost to get 7 heavy class placks printed and 5-6 light class placks printed as appossed to 11 of the same to be much different. But if there is a cost difference I will pick up the tab in full for the whole season. You tell me how much and I will right the check at the next event.

Sincerely,

Eric Yost

Steve McNamara
02-23-2004, 11:47 AM
Eric,

We introduced this class to allow our Jr.'s to get their feet wet into racing. I understand that children at that age can be very competitive. I'm not sure if separating bikes by size is the answer. I do feel that the solution may be to keep CC's to a class maximum for all entrants. Maybe allowing a big bore kit on an XR50??

Our fear is seeing this get out of hand ie:
a spending match by parents with head porting, valve jobs, cams, etc.....
I'll get with Bryan and the other BoD's and see if we have a fair solution.

Steve McNamara
02-23-2004, 11:47 AM
Eric,

We introduced this class to allow our Jr.'s to get their feet wet into racing. I understand that children at that age can be very competitive. I'm not sure if separating bikes by size is the answer. I do feel that the solution may be to keep CC's to a class maximum for all entrants. Maybe allowing a big bore kit on an XR50??

Our fear is seeing this get out of hand ie:
a spending match by parents with head porting, valve jobs, cams, etc.....
I'll get with Bryan and the other BoD's and see if we have a fair solution.

Mike Wright
02-23-2004, 12:51 PM
Eric, Steve and Bryon,

Two Bros has dynos on almost all the mini's in various states of tune. Their website or a call to them should get you info on what would make the various bikes comparable power wise. A TTR90 with a pipe is about 5.5HP. That is about the same as a KLX110 with the stock pipe, but not with an aftermarket. They also have dyno's on big bore kits for the 50's. Depending on what's in the kit, an 88cc big bore on and XR 50 would be about equal to the TTR90.

Here's the link http://www.twobros.com/

Mike Wright
02-23-2004, 12:51 PM
Eric, Steve and Bryon,

Two Bros has dynos on almost all the mini's in various states of tune. Their website or a call to them should get you info on what would make the various bikes comparable power wise. A TTR90 with a pipe is about 5.5HP. That is about the same as a KLX110 with the stock pipe, but not with an aftermarket. They also have dyno's on big bore kits for the 50's. Depending on what's in the kit, an 88cc big bore on and XR 50 would be about equal to the TTR90.

Here's the link http://www.twobros.com/

Brooks Gremmels
02-23-2004, 01:10 PM
The input is appreciated because it shows there is a divergence of opinions on this subject.
I was a big supporter of getting this class on the grid for a couple of reasons. One was to offer the children something to look forward when they went to the track for the weekend with their parents. This, together with the aspect that we were cracking down on kid's opportunities to ride thier small bikes in the paddock.
The second reason was to provide an entry level opportunity for children to get into the sport. I can tell you from talking to OEM's and other organizations, we have hit upon a solution that is attracting national attention.
A trophy or some sort of recognition for Every participant. If they and their parents want to keep score fine, if they don't and I can tell you many don't because I loaned out a TT 90 last season just so kids could race and they could'nt have cared less. Some do, some don't.
That is the program. Getting youngsters started on the footing that says you're here to have fun and learn the sport, when you get better we'll move up in bike size (just like the big folks do), is not "SILLY" in my book. Rather a dad running over and complaining about an illegal oil cooler is the silliness we want to avoid. At all costs.
I guarentee every kid with an ounce of competition in his/her blood will want to win. That is part of the equation isn't it? That is the way it is at any age. But we offer a set of rules and folks are free to compete within those guidelines. If a XR 50 doesn't stack up well against a 90cc bike, do we offer a complex set of rules to provide for mods to equate them? (For what it's worth, I recently put a 88cc kit and pipe on a XR 50. It runs like snot but it's scary to ride because the handling wasn't made for this HP increase. Now do I add forks and a shock? Now we're really spending money. A used 90cc would be a lot less expensive). As soon as we start down the slope of determining which performance mods will be allowed for each model of bikes, we might as well go back to the old way of doing business and wait 'til they can ride a YSR.
Have you seen the amount of discussion involved in determining what mods will be allowed for the mini classes?? Please spare us.
My vote will be for keeping this class organized along the original premises as stated above. Maybe a divided displacement class is worth considering.
Just my two cents. Certainly no offense intended.
Brooks

Brooks Gremmels
02-23-2004, 01:10 PM
The input is appreciated because it shows there is a divergence of opinions on this subject.
I was a big supporter of getting this class on the grid for a couple of reasons. One was to offer the children something to look forward when they went to the track for the weekend with their parents. This, together with the aspect that we were cracking down on kid's opportunities to ride thier small bikes in the paddock.
The second reason was to provide an entry level opportunity for children to get into the sport. I can tell you from talking to OEM's and other organizations, we have hit upon a solution that is attracting national attention.
A trophy or some sort of recognition for Every participant. If they and their parents want to keep score fine, if they don't and I can tell you many don't because I loaned out a TT 90 last season just so kids could race and they could'nt have cared less. Some do, some don't.
That is the program. Getting youngsters started on the footing that says you're here to have fun and learn the sport, when you get better we'll move up in bike size (just like the big folks do), is not "SILLY" in my book. Rather a dad running over and complaining about an illegal oil cooler is the silliness we want to avoid. At all costs.
I guarentee every kid with an ounce of competition in his/her blood will want to win. That is part of the equation isn't it? That is the way it is at any age. But we offer a set of rules and folks are free to compete within those guidelines. If a XR 50 doesn't stack up well against a 90cc bike, do we offer a complex set of rules to provide for mods to equate them? (For what it's worth, I recently put a 88cc kit and pipe on a XR 50. It runs like snot but it's scary to ride because the handling wasn't made for this HP increase. Now do I add forks and a shock? Now we're really spending money. A used 90cc would be a lot less expensive). As soon as we start down the slope of determining which performance mods will be allowed for each model of bikes, we might as well go back to the old way of doing business and wait 'til they can ride a YSR.
Have you seen the amount of discussion involved in determining what mods will be allowed for the mini classes?? Please spare us.
My vote will be for keeping this class organized along the original premises as stated above. Maybe a divided displacement class is worth considering.
Just my two cents. Certainly no offense intended.
Brooks

Jiveturky
02-23-2004, 01:11 PM
Steve,

I really don't care which way the BOD decides to go on this one but I would love to see the racing be competative for all kids. I really do appreciate your response and my little boy will be thrilled if he can stay on the Honda.

Mike,

You are correct a Kitaco or Takagawa kit puts the xr 50 real close to the ttr 90. There is no head work involved, just a jug, piston, and carb. I would really like the little boy on the klx 110 to have a chance to compete as well. My son Ethan and him were riding around together in the field and he seems to be a good kid. He rode the knobbies off that 110 but was obviously disqualified for the displacement. That would be really cool if we could allow some mods for the small bikes and a pipe mod for the 90's and none for the 110's. Now everyone is participating and more importantly having a blast.

I want to thank the BOD in advance for your understanding.

Thanks, Eric Yost

Jiveturky
02-23-2004, 01:11 PM
Steve,

I really don't care which way the BOD decides to go on this one but I would love to see the racing be competative for all kids. I really do appreciate your response and my little boy will be thrilled if he can stay on the Honda.

Mike,

You are correct a Kitaco or Takagawa kit puts the xr 50 real close to the ttr 90. There is no head work involved, just a jug, piston, and carb. I would really like the little boy on the klx 110 to have a chance to compete as well. My son Ethan and him were riding around together in the field and he seems to be a good kid. He rode the knobbies off that 110 but was obviously disqualified for the displacement. That would be really cool if we could allow some mods for the small bikes and a pipe mod for the 90's and none for the 110's. Now everyone is participating and more importantly having a blast.

I want to thank the BOD in advance for your understanding.

Thanks, Eric Yost

Bryan Norton
02-23-2004, 01:37 PM
I'll jump in for a second.

With ANY class structure, some bikes will be more competitive than others. Allowing certain bikes certain modifications becomes complex. I don't want to see protests in the Jr Motard class!

The idea is to get their feet wet and have them ready for the Formula 7 class when they are old enough in fact, some of the jr motard riders are old enough for F7). With a year or two of Jr Motard, they won't be as shocked when they are on the track with faster bikes.

I am in the same place as you, my boys PW50 isn't going to be competitive against a PW80.

There are options, but I don't think they fit with the spirit of the class. The original draft of the class was actually a spec class with only one machine allowed.

I have one thing I am working on, I am discussing it with the BoD.

Bryan Norton
02-23-2004, 01:37 PM
I'll jump in for a second.

With ANY class structure, some bikes will be more competitive than others. Allowing certain bikes certain modifications becomes complex. I don't want to see protests in the Jr Motard class!

The idea is to get their feet wet and have them ready for the Formula 7 class when they are old enough in fact, some of the jr motard riders are old enough for F7). With a year or two of Jr Motard, they won't be as shocked when they are on the track with faster bikes.

I am in the same place as you, my boys PW50 isn't going to be competitive against a PW80.

There are options, but I don't think they fit with the spirit of the class. The original draft of the class was actually a spec class with only one machine allowed.

I have one thing I am working on, I am discussing it with the BoD.

Jiveturky
02-23-2004, 07:05 PM
I agree that a spec class is easy to deal with and in this case would probably be the best thing. However, some kids (like mine) are somewhat vertically challenged and can't physically hold a TTR-90 up. So allowing other models to run was a good decision. But to allow them to run and not be competative is not. Brooks said it best “I guarentee every kid with an ounce of competition in his/her blood will want to win. That is part of the equation isn't it? That is the way it is at any age" , and the rule book says it even better “The CMRA may change the rules or request performance adjustments of machinery in or to MAINTAIN as CLOSE a performance level as possible in the class”. Both of which say exactly what I am trying to say, let the kids RACE, and you can't race if your bike runs 10mph slower. Allowing limited mods just gives people another option. I don’t want to build a bike that will leave everyone behind, I just want to build one that at least has a chance to keep up. I wouldn’t have a problem slowing the TTR-90’s down a bit so the other bikes can compete. To be quite honest I thought they were going rather quick for a first time racer. The rule book mentions that scenerio.

I personally think option two is the way to go. As I mentioned above I was very surprised at how fast the TTR-90's were going. To be honest I would rather leave my son on the stock 50 so he can gain a little more experience before going to the 90's. This would allow for the kids to progress even more but still be competing for 1st, 2nd ,or 3rd. I am very proud to tell people that our club is where the future of roadracing comes from. I can prove that many times over, Nicky, Colin, John, Ben, Ryan, etc., etc., etc... Some of the things this club is doing will ensure that we can be proud long after the racers above have retired and I thank you for the blood, sweat, and sometimes tears all of you put into making it all happen.

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
02-23-2004, 07:05 PM
I agree that a spec class is easy to deal with and in this case would probably be the best thing. However, some kids (like mine) are somewhat vertically challenged and can't physically hold a TTR-90 up. So allowing other models to run was a good decision. But to allow them to run and not be competative is not. Brooks said it best “I guarentee every kid with an ounce of competition in his/her blood will want to win. That is part of the equation isn't it? That is the way it is at any age" , and the rule book says it even better “The CMRA may change the rules or request performance adjustments of machinery in or to MAINTAIN as CLOSE a performance level as possible in the class”. Both of which say exactly what I am trying to say, let the kids RACE, and you can't race if your bike runs 10mph slower. Allowing limited mods just gives people another option. I don’t want to build a bike that will leave everyone behind, I just want to build one that at least has a chance to keep up. I wouldn’t have a problem slowing the TTR-90’s down a bit so the other bikes can compete. To be quite honest I thought they were going rather quick for a first time racer. The rule book mentions that scenerio.

I personally think option two is the way to go. As I mentioned above I was very surprised at how fast the TTR-90's were going. To be honest I would rather leave my son on the stock 50 so he can gain a little more experience before going to the 90's. This would allow for the kids to progress even more but still be competing for 1st, 2nd ,or 3rd. I am very proud to tell people that our club is where the future of roadracing comes from. I can prove that many times over, Nicky, Colin, John, Ben, Ryan, etc., etc., etc... Some of the things this club is doing will ensure that we can be proud long after the racers above have retired and I thank you for the blood, sweat, and sometimes tears all of you put into making it all happen.

Later, Eric

Chuck Ergle
02-23-2004, 10:09 PM
I think the only way to go is an empirically established wall. It seems that that wall is top speed. This can be easily regulated and monitored via a speed gun. I think 50mph should be the limit--faster, and you're disqualified. The TTR90s are topping out at that (as verified on a Bushnell speed gun at TWS last year). 50mph is, when you think about it in terms of little kids, a frighteningly fast speed--you bail off of a bike at that speed and see what happens, even in full leathers. The overarching consideration in this class is safety and fun--"little league parent syndrome" should be stomped on BUT HARD. These are little kids and they might be competitive, but they are writing checks, body-wise, their parents will have to cash. I don't want to see a little kid loaded into a helicopter for a ride to a trauma center.

Chuck Ergle
02-23-2004, 10:09 PM
I think the only way to go is an empirically established wall. It seems that that wall is top speed. This can be easily regulated and monitored via a speed gun. I think 50mph should be the limit--faster, and you're disqualified. The TTR90s are topping out at that (as verified on a Bushnell speed gun at TWS last year). 50mph is, when you think about it in terms of little kids, a frighteningly fast speed--you bail off of a bike at that speed and see what happens, even in full leathers. The overarching consideration in this class is safety and fun--"little league parent syndrome" should be stomped on BUT HARD. These are little kids and they might be competitive, but they are writing checks, body-wise, their parents will have to cash. I don't want to see a little kid loaded into a helicopter for a ride to a trauma center.

Walter Walker
02-24-2004, 08:17 AM
I think Chuck has the right idea to limit top speed. I'll have a radar gun at TWS to check top speeds.

Walter Walker
02-24-2004, 08:17 AM
I think Chuck has the right idea to limit top speed. I'll have a radar gun at TWS to check top speeds.

Jiveturky
02-24-2004, 08:53 AM
Chuck,

You are correct 50mph is pretty quick. I would not be against lowering it but if this is the decision we will be going 50mph. I hope you don't think that I am one of those parents that need to be squashed. I am just trying to get the kiddo some good track expereince in the safest, and most cost effective manner.

Walter,
So does this mean that 90cc is the limit and we can not exceed 50 mph at the next event, no matter what bike you are riding as long as it is an auto clutch and 4 stroke.

By the way if this decision adds expense to the club I will donate the first $50 to help buy a radar gun. Tell me where to send the check.

Thanks, Eric Yost

Jiveturky
02-24-2004, 08:53 AM
Chuck,

You are correct 50mph is pretty quick. I would not be against lowering it but if this is the decision we will be going 50mph. I hope you don't think that I am one of those parents that need to be squashed. I am just trying to get the kiddo some good track expereince in the safest, and most cost effective manner.

Walter,
So does this mean that 90cc is the limit and we can not exceed 50 mph at the next event, no matter what bike you are riding as long as it is an auto clutch and 4 stroke.

By the way if this decision adds expense to the club I will donate the first $50 to help buy a radar gun. Tell me where to send the check.

Thanks, Eric Yost

Norm McDonald
02-24-2004, 09:09 AM
We put a lot of thought and research in before we came up with rules and standards putting this class together. I feel if we are going to have 50cc minis competeing then lets break down the class and have a 50cc class and 90cc class line them up in there class and compete against bikes in there class. This class was started to introduce our young rides to the sport of roadracing, so the ones that want to continue can move up to our formula classes. Once you start making changes and adding kits we will be getting away from the concept the class was formed for. if the classes are going to be seperated let me know soon so I will have awards for both classes. Norm

Norm McDonald
02-24-2004, 09:09 AM
We put a lot of thought and research in before we came up with rules and standards putting this class together. I feel if we are going to have 50cc minis competeing then lets break down the class and have a 50cc class and 90cc class line them up in there class and compete against bikes in there class. This class was started to introduce our young rides to the sport of roadracing, so the ones that want to continue can move up to our formula classes. Once you start making changes and adding kits we will be getting away from the concept the class was formed for. if the classes are going to be seperated let me know soon so I will have awards for both classes. Norm

JesseJohnson
02-24-2004, 10:17 AM
I would not be opposed to having a 50 class and a 90 class, assuming we have at least 3 in each class.

I'm also in favor of randomly drawn grids at each event, no end of season points and trophies for all competitors who show up.

Jess

JesseJohnson
02-24-2004, 10:17 AM
I would not be opposed to having a 50 class and a 90 class, assuming we have at least 3 in each class.

I'm also in favor of randomly drawn grids at each event, no end of season points and trophies for all competitors who show up.

Jess

Bryan Norton
02-24-2004, 10:20 AM
We have two options as I see it to keep the class fair, safe, and fun.

any modifications, 50MPH (maybe 40 or 45) top speed. Either cutoff at 90cc or 110cc. Stil require automatic clutch and max 14" rims. This will allow the most machines to participate, but ingenious parents will play with gearing so these things crank up quick, but top out low.

Second option is to split the class(somewhere).
Here is where it gets technical and difficult.
Case in point - PW50 and PW80. The PW50 is faster than Z50, but couldn't compete in the 80 class...so you begin performance indexing and allowing certain mods and everything gets out of hand.

Anything goes, 50Mph top speed is easy to police. If caught exceeding the speed the bike will be penalized x number of positions.

Norm - I don't wanna split the class becuase it will get too confusing, and will be hard to know how many plaques for each class we will need.

Bryan Norton
02-24-2004, 10:20 AM
We have two options as I see it to keep the class fair, safe, and fun.

any modifications, 50MPH (maybe 40 or 45) top speed. Either cutoff at 90cc or 110cc. Stil require automatic clutch and max 14" rims. This will allow the most machines to participate, but ingenious parents will play with gearing so these things crank up quick, but top out low.

Second option is to split the class(somewhere).
Here is where it gets technical and difficult.
Case in point - PW50 and PW80. The PW50 is faster than Z50, but couldn't compete in the 80 class...so you begin performance indexing and allowing certain mods and everything gets out of hand.

Anything goes, 50Mph top speed is easy to police. If caught exceeding the speed the bike will be penalized x number of positions.

Norm - I don't wanna split the class becuase it will get too confusing, and will be hard to know how many plaques for each class we will need.

Jiveturky
02-24-2004, 11:26 AM
Bryan,

You guys make the rules, so either way sounds fine with me. The thing I like about your way is it will allow the kid on the KLX to participate and recieve something to hang on his wall. That is important to all kids. But I do understand what Norm was saying and would not be oppossed to his idea. I am like Norm, would just like to know something soon.

Thanks, Eric

Jiveturky
02-24-2004, 11:26 AM
Bryan,

You guys make the rules, so either way sounds fine with me. The thing I like about your way is it will allow the kid on the KLX to participate and recieve something to hang on his wall. That is important to all kids. But I do understand what Norm was saying and would not be oppossed to his idea. I am like Norm, would just like to know something soon.

Thanks, Eric

Brooks Gremmels
02-24-2004, 04:02 PM
Eric,
I am afraid I was quoted out of context. My point was that everyone (well almost everyone) is competitive. There is no perogitive that all bikes in this class be competitive however and to quote the rulebook in this regard shows a misunderstanding of the intent of this Children's class. We have a set of rules that allows a broad crosssection of machines to participate without being hindered by a passle of rules to enforce. Maybe some kids have to grow some to handle certain machines, maybe some have to participate under financial restrictions that someone else might not have to face, maybe some don't have the skills to match thier enthusiam, and so on. Being naturally competitive doesn't alter reality. Lot's of us grown racers face this fact every time we get on the grid.
I have to leave town for a few days but again, my vote is to maintain the intergrity of the Junior Motard class as an low buck, entry level opportunity for children to experience the thrill of being on a race track. Period.
Brooks

Brooks Gremmels
02-24-2004, 04:02 PM
Eric,
I am afraid I was quoted out of context. My point was that everyone (well almost everyone) is competitive. There is no perogitive that all bikes in this class be competitive however and to quote the rulebook in this regard shows a misunderstanding of the intent of this Children's class. We have a set of rules that allows a broad crosssection of machines to participate without being hindered by a passle of rules to enforce. Maybe some kids have to grow some to handle certain machines, maybe some have to participate under financial restrictions that someone else might not have to face, maybe some don't have the skills to match thier enthusiam, and so on. Being naturally competitive doesn't alter reality. Lot's of us grown racers face this fact every time we get on the grid.
I have to leave town for a few days but again, my vote is to maintain the intergrity of the Junior Motard class as an low buck, entry level opportunity for children to experience the thrill of being on a race track. Period.
Brooks

Jiveturky
02-24-2004, 08:24 PM
"I have to leave town for a few days but again, my vote is to maintain the intergrity of the Junior Motard class as an low buck, entry level opportunity for children to experience the thrill of being on a race track. Period.
Brooks"

Nothing I have suggested conflicts with what Brooks has stated above. Allowing people to fix up other brands of motorcycles to compete in this class in no way will hinder them from purchasing the TTR-90 and racing it, just the way they do now. And in my case will save me at least a grand. If someone can please just give me a good explanation of why the club should not embrace one of the two scenerios I have proposed then I will shut up. Either of the two scenerios will do nothing but, and to quote the rulebook again " bring the fun and excitement of roadracing to today's youth"..

I am interpreting what some of you have said as hope, but others have made it clear to me that they don't want to take the time to mess with it. So I will be frank and ask is their any intent by the BOD to seriously consider altering the rules to allow other manufacturers and more importantly all kids to participate in a competative manner?? Or am I just waisting everyone's time and inadvertantly making enemies?

Thanks, Eric Yost

Jiveturky
02-24-2004, 08:24 PM
"I have to leave town for a few days but again, my vote is to maintain the intergrity of the Junior Motard class as an low buck, entry level opportunity for children to experience the thrill of being on a race track. Period.
Brooks"

Nothing I have suggested conflicts with what Brooks has stated above. Allowing people to fix up other brands of motorcycles to compete in this class in no way will hinder them from purchasing the TTR-90 and racing it, just the way they do now. And in my case will save me at least a grand. If someone can please just give me a good explanation of why the club should not embrace one of the two scenerios I have proposed then I will shut up. Either of the two scenerios will do nothing but, and to quote the rulebook again " bring the fun and excitement of roadracing to today's youth"..

I am interpreting what some of you have said as hope, but others have made it clear to me that they don't want to take the time to mess with it. So I will be frank and ask is their any intent by the BOD to seriously consider altering the rules to allow other manufacturers and more importantly all kids to participate in a competative manner?? Or am I just waisting everyone's time and inadvertantly making enemies?

Thanks, Eric Yost

Steve McNamara
02-24-2004, 09:31 PM
Eric,

Let's not get carried away here. We are discussing a maximum CC limit for 4 strokes with a 50 mph top speed limit. I believe this will address most of the concerns and obstacles brought up in this BBS post. I would like to see the gearing brought down a bit and the speeds be more like 45 mph. Walter will be bringing a radar gun to TWS to check the speeds in practice. If we stand firm on top speed I think the CC limit is a mute point. Sure one bike may get there quicker but it should "level" the playing field. Sit tight, we'll try to have an answer for you in a few days.

Steve McNamara
02-24-2004, 09:31 PM
Eric,

Let's not get carried away here. We are discussing a maximum CC limit for 4 strokes with a 50 mph top speed limit. I believe this will address most of the concerns and obstacles brought up in this BBS post. I would like to see the gearing brought down a bit and the speeds be more like 45 mph. Walter will be bringing a radar gun to TWS to check the speeds in practice. If we stand firm on top speed I think the CC limit is a mute point. Sure one bike may get there quicker but it should "level" the playing field. Sit tight, we'll try to have an answer for you in a few days.

Jiveturky
02-24-2004, 09:53 PM
Steve,

I am sorry if it sounded like I was getting carried away. That was not my intent. Thank you so much for replying back with something that I can understand. Just so the BOD knows I have done top speed runs on my son's stock xr 50 with a calibrated radar gun and it is 38 mph. My 88 cc xr 50 runs close to 50 mph with a 16 tooth front sprocket. We race xr 50's with 88cc kits against TTR 90's quite often on go kart tracks and in parking lots. They are very close.

Thanks, Eric

Jiveturky
02-24-2004, 09:53 PM
Steve,

I am sorry if it sounded like I was getting carried away. That was not my intent. Thank you so much for replying back with something that I can understand. Just so the BOD knows I have done top speed runs on my son's stock xr 50 with a calibrated radar gun and it is 38 mph. My 88 cc xr 50 runs close to 50 mph with a 16 tooth front sprocket. We race xr 50's with 88cc kits against TTR 90's quite often on go kart tracks and in parking lots. They are very close.

Thanks, Eric

David Branyon
02-25-2004, 12:00 AM
Well, here's my $.02:
My son races on an XR70... uncompetitive, in other words, with the TTR90. I think the most important thing for him to learn at this age, is that life is likely to be unfair most of the time and that he should get used to it. That may sound crass and hard-nosed, but we all know it's true. I race an FZR400 against SV650s... I have to either pick it up and be better than them, or be able to be satisfied with a hard earned 4th or 5th place. That's okay. I think it makes him a more well-rounded citizen to understand things like this early. As he picks it up on the XR70, we may consider getting him a 90, if we find one for the right price. Or more likely, after he gets over the "this is unfair" thing and focuses on doing the best he can on the machine he can afford and has access to, we will likely go to the mini class, where competition is more serious.

I have spent a lot of time in the little league baseball arena, and it is mostly not pretty. Kids need to learn that it's not always gonna be fair, we're not all born 7' tall and with world class foot speed, and sometimes, just sometimes, someone is going to have a faster bike than you. (Okay, ALL the time, for the rest of your life, always, every single time on the track!) My personal opinion is that I would like him to learn to not get bent out of shape about things like that but to do the best he can, and then to look forward to ways that we can change that in the future. Jr. motard is just a class for the kids to get out on the track and have some fun. I want him to be able to have fun, even if it's racing for second to last place on an "uncompetitive" bike.

Sorry for the long post, but changing it your way will still leave my son competing on his XR70 vs. the 90's. Isn't that unfair? Of course it is. Is there a law preventing us from purchasing a 90? No, but it's not in the cards for us right now, so we soldier on. Maybe a mini next year and go after a more competitive ride. But it's sometimes good to learn early on that life isn't fair.

David Branyon
02-25-2004, 12:00 AM
Well, here's my $.02:
My son races on an XR70... uncompetitive, in other words, with the TTR90. I think the most important thing for him to learn at this age, is that life is likely to be unfair most of the time and that he should get used to it. That may sound crass and hard-nosed, but we all know it's true. I race an FZR400 against SV650s... I have to either pick it up and be better than them, or be able to be satisfied with a hard earned 4th or 5th place. That's okay. I think it makes him a more well-rounded citizen to understand things like this early. As he picks it up on the XR70, we may consider getting him a 90, if we find one for the right price. Or more likely, after he gets over the "this is unfair" thing and focuses on doing the best he can on the machine he can afford and has access to, we will likely go to the mini class, where competition is more serious.

I have spent a lot of time in the little league baseball arena, and it is mostly not pretty. Kids need to learn that it's not always gonna be fair, we're not all born 7' tall and with world class foot speed, and sometimes, just sometimes, someone is going to have a faster bike than you. (Okay, ALL the time, for the rest of your life, always, every single time on the track!) My personal opinion is that I would like him to learn to not get bent out of shape about things like that but to do the best he can, and then to look forward to ways that we can change that in the future. Jr. motard is just a class for the kids to get out on the track and have some fun. I want him to be able to have fun, even if it's racing for second to last place on an "uncompetitive" bike.

Sorry for the long post, but changing it your way will still leave my son competing on his XR70 vs. the 90's. Isn't that unfair? Of course it is. Is there a law preventing us from purchasing a 90? No, but it's not in the cards for us right now, so we soldier on. Maybe a mini next year and go after a more competitive ride. But it's sometimes good to learn early on that life isn't fair.

Jiveturky
02-25-2004, 10:27 AM
David,

I hear you, and this was what I was afraid of before I even posted. I too coach little league and the parents in some cases act pretty bad. I surely didn't want anyone to think that was how I was. However, I had a question and figured it wouldn't be too much trouble for us (the club) to discuss and come to an agreable solution. I agree with you completely that this league is for fun and both my son and I are having a blast. He doesn't no anything about this post nor will he. If the board decides to accomodate my wish, then I will be happy that my boy can compete, if not then he will be out there with his little 50cc pinned wide open with a big smile under his helmet. I will be on the sidelines with a big smile on my face.

One last note; actually if they allow 90cc limit for all manufacturers you can bore up as well and be in the mix. So at least one of my scenerios helps you out as well. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
02-25-2004, 10:27 AM
David,

I hear you, and this was what I was afraid of before I even posted. I too coach little league and the parents in some cases act pretty bad. I surely didn't want anyone to think that was how I was. However, I had a question and figured it wouldn't be too much trouble for us (the club) to discuss and come to an agreable solution. I agree with you completely that this league is for fun and both my son and I are having a blast. He doesn't no anything about this post nor will he. If the board decides to accomodate my wish, then I will be happy that my boy can compete, if not then he will be out there with his little 50cc pinned wide open with a big smile under his helmet. I will be on the sidelines with a big smile on my face.

One last note; actually if they allow 90cc limit for all manufacturers you can bore up as well and be in the mix. So at least one of my scenerios helps you out as well. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Later, Eric

David Branyon
02-27-2004, 09:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Eric Yost:
One last note; actually if they allow 90cc limit for all manufacturers you can bore up as well and be in the mix. So at least one of my scenerios helps you out as well. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
</div></div>Appreciate your position Eric, and your reasonableness (a word?) in discussing it. Me, I'm not going to overbore and buy a new piston for a $600, 8 yr old XR70, but it's a free country. Course, I do have a possible lead on getting some non-knobby 14/12" tires for the XR, and if it's less than $75 for the pair, I just might go crazy and do it. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

David Branyon
02-27-2004, 09:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Eric Yost:
One last note; actually if they allow 90cc limit for all manufacturers you can bore up as well and be in the mix. So at least one of my scenerios helps you out as well. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
</div></div>Appreciate your position Eric, and your reasonableness (a word?) in discussing it. Me, I'm not going to overbore and buy a new piston for a $600, 8 yr old XR70, but it's a free country. Course, I do have a possible lead on getting some non-knobby 14/12" tires for the XR, and if it's less than $75 for the pair, I just might go crazy and do it. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Jiveturky
03-01-2004, 07:16 PM
I am not trying to be a pest but have we decided anything yet?

Thanks, Eric Yost

Jiveturky
03-01-2004, 07:16 PM
I am not trying to be a pest but have we decided anything yet?

Thanks, Eric Yost

Steve McNamara
03-02-2004, 10:35 AM
Ok.
The class maximum cc limit is 100cc's or less.
Top speed measured by radar 50mph. We will have a radar gun in practice at TWS to minitor speeds. Bring shorter gearing with you if you think you may exceed the class maximum speed limit.
If it goes over 50, your out. We will strictly enforce speeds and let's remember it's a fun class for our juniors out there. Grids will be random, and there will be no end of year points awarded in the class.

Steve McNamara
03-02-2004, 10:35 AM
Ok.
The class maximum cc limit is 100cc's or less.
Top speed measured by radar 50mph. We will have a radar gun in practice at TWS to minitor speeds. Bring shorter gearing with you if you think you may exceed the class maximum speed limit.
If it goes over 50, your out. We will strictly enforce speeds and let's remember it's a fun class for our juniors out there. Grids will be random, and there will be no end of year points awarded in the class.

David Branyon
03-02-2004, 12:42 PM
Enjoy Eric. There we go, down another 10cc to the comp. So, now I guess I need to go to a timed top speed distance on the XR70 (or buy a radar gun), find an open, safe location for that somewhere, buy a stable of gearing, and adjust 'till I hit the magic 49.9 mph mark. This is getting more fun all the time.

Anyone have any idea what a stock XR70 with stock gearing (per the previous rule) does for top speed?

I do appreciate your efforts to satisfy folks, Steve. Please disregard my whining.

David Branyon
03-02-2004, 12:42 PM
Enjoy Eric. There we go, down another 10cc to the comp. So, now I guess I need to go to a timed top speed distance on the XR70 (or buy a radar gun), find an open, safe location for that somewhere, buy a stable of gearing, and adjust 'till I hit the magic 49.9 mph mark. This is getting more fun all the time.

Anyone have any idea what a stock XR70 with stock gearing (per the previous rule) does for top speed?

I do appreciate your efforts to satisfy folks, Steve. Please disregard my whining.

Steve McNamara
03-02-2004, 02:01 PM
Already disregarded Dave.
Remember, I have known you a while.
:-)

Steve McNamara
03-02-2004, 02:01 PM
Already disregarded Dave.
Remember, I have known you a while.
:-)

03-02-2004, 04:58 PM
FIRST OF ALL,WHATS UP????MR YOST!!!!PERSONALLY MY DAUGHTER WANTS TO GO FASTER,ESPECIALLY UNTIL SHE CATCHES THE #1 BIKE OF WILLIAM WHITE!!!!!PLUS, ITS HER LAST YEAR IN THE JR MOTARDS,NEXT YEAR SHE WILL BE ON A TT-R125 MOTARD AND WE WONT WORRY ABOUT ALL OF THIS. BUT I DONT UNDERSTAND THE RULE CHANGE TO 100CC MAX ,IT STILL DOESNT OPEN THE FIELD TO ANY MORE BIKES,I WAS GOING TO BUILD HER A KLX 110 AND ALL I HEARD WAS THAT THE CLASS WAS BUILT AROUND THE TT-R 90!!!!ITS BEEN FUN NO MATTER WHAT THE RULING.#16 WILL SEE YA AT TEXAS WORLD!! HEY ERIC I HAVE AN 2001 TT-R 90 $1000 AT THE THE SHOP IF U ARE STILL INTERESTED, LATER BRETT

03-02-2004, 04:58 PM
FIRST OF ALL,WHATS UP????MR YOST!!!!PERSONALLY MY DAUGHTER WANTS TO GO FASTER,ESPECIALLY UNTIL SHE CATCHES THE #1 BIKE OF WILLIAM WHITE!!!!!PLUS, ITS HER LAST YEAR IN THE JR MOTARDS,NEXT YEAR SHE WILL BE ON A TT-R125 MOTARD AND WE WONT WORRY ABOUT ALL OF THIS. BUT I DONT UNDERSTAND THE RULE CHANGE TO 100CC MAX ,IT STILL DOESNT OPEN THE FIELD TO ANY MORE BIKES,I WAS GOING TO BUILD HER A KLX 110 AND ALL I HEARD WAS THAT THE CLASS WAS BUILT AROUND THE TT-R 90!!!!ITS BEEN FUN NO MATTER WHAT THE RULING.#16 WILL SEE YA AT TEXAS WORLD!! HEY ERIC I HAVE AN 2001 TT-R 90 $1000 AT THE THE SHOP IF U ARE STILL INTERESTED, LATER BRETT

Jiveturky
03-02-2004, 05:46 PM
Brett,
I know what you are really worried about is getting beat by an 8 year old on an XR-88 at the go-kart track in a couple of weeks. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I too was a little perplexed at the 100cc limit, a 110 limit would have allowed yet another two bikes to be in the mix. (TYPO???) But hey I am interpreting this as positive thing for the xr-50's and 70's.

David,
I am sorry for complicating things and am very sorry if this impedes on anyone else's chance to compete. However, this allows me to big bore my sons xr 50 and give him a chance to expereince a little more power. He has been riding his stock 50 on go kart tracks for a year, so he is ready for a little more speed. Even though it makes DAD nervous.

This is still an auto clutch class, correct???

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
03-02-2004, 05:46 PM
Brett,
I know what you are really worried about is getting beat by an 8 year old on an XR-88 at the go-kart track in a couple of weeks. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I too was a little perplexed at the 100cc limit, a 110 limit would have allowed yet another two bikes to be in the mix. (TYPO???) But hey I am interpreting this as positive thing for the xr-50's and 70's.

David,
I am sorry for complicating things and am very sorry if this impedes on anyone else's chance to compete. However, this allows me to big bore my sons xr 50 and give him a chance to expereince a little more power. He has been riding his stock 50 on go kart tracks for a year, so he is ready for a little more speed. Even though it makes DAD nervous.

This is still an auto clutch class, correct???

Later, Eric

Mark Delano
03-03-2004, 07:52 AM
why do we have to make something so simple so fricken complicated
why cant we just leave things alone

Mark Delano
03-03-2004, 07:52 AM
why do we have to make something so simple so fricken complicated
why cant we just leave things alone

Norm McDonald
03-03-2004, 08:36 AM
This is a auto clutch class. Changing the rules always opens a can of worms. This is the kind of thing that causes these kind of classes to go away.I had awards made up for 50cc so they could run there own class but it seems you all have decieded to spend money on making the bikes faster and that was not the purpose of the class. If you want them on faster bikes then get them a CMRA license and run the formula classes. Norm

Norm McDonald
03-03-2004, 08:36 AM
This is a auto clutch class. Changing the rules always opens a can of worms. This is the kind of thing that causes these kind of classes to go away.I had awards made up for 50cc so they could run there own class but it seems you all have decieded to spend money on making the bikes faster and that was not the purpose of the class. If you want them on faster bikes then get them a CMRA license and run the formula classes. Norm

Bryan Altmeyer
03-03-2004, 09:16 AM
I can see where the XR50's are underpowered on CMRA tracks but not TMGP tracks. Lets keep in mind this class was created for the kids to have fun and to learn rather than sit on the sidelines or see how far mom and pop's wallet can go. My son's first race was at Oak Hill and it didn't matter what place he came in, he had a blast riding around the track. He didn't win, and he never once complained that the other riders were faster, or that there were bigger faster bikes, or that he lost. He was just happy to be out on the track that the fast guys race on. He was thrilled that he got a trophy and even more thrilled when he learned his name was mentioned in the Inside Line.

I'd hate to see this "bike vs. bike" thing get out of hand and the class end up going away. Lets keep it fun for the kids.

Bryan Altmeyer
03-03-2004, 09:16 AM
I can see where the XR50's are underpowered on CMRA tracks but not TMGP tracks. Lets keep in mind this class was created for the kids to have fun and to learn rather than sit on the sidelines or see how far mom and pop's wallet can go. My son's first race was at Oak Hill and it didn't matter what place he came in, he had a blast riding around the track. He didn't win, and he never once complained that the other riders were faster, or that there were bigger faster bikes, or that he lost. He was just happy to be out on the track that the fast guys race on. He was thrilled that he got a trophy and even more thrilled when he learned his name was mentioned in the Inside Line.

I'd hate to see this "bike vs. bike" thing get out of hand and the class end up going away. Lets keep it fun for the kids.

David Branyon
03-03-2004, 09:19 AM
What Norm said... and Bryan.

Norm, not "all of us" decided to make it more expensive and complicated, just some. But we'll all live with it, I guess.

Eric, why not just buy the TTR90 offered above and leave the rules alone? Then your kid can experience more power, and there will still be stock bikes out there and everyone can have fun racing against "their class" of 70's or 50's or whatever with stock gearing. Doesn't even require different awards, though that's a nice thought Norm. We can still talk about where he came in vs. the other 70's, or 50's after the race though. I'm guessing the trade up to the TTR90 is within $100 of what you'll spend on boring up anyway, especially if you include some cost for your labor on the work.

David Branyon
03-03-2004, 09:19 AM
What Norm said... and Bryan.

Norm, not "all of us" decided to make it more expensive and complicated, just some. But we'll all live with it, I guess.

Eric, why not just buy the TTR90 offered above and leave the rules alone? Then your kid can experience more power, and there will still be stock bikes out there and everyone can have fun racing against "their class" of 70's or 50's or whatever with stock gearing. Doesn't even require different awards, though that's a nice thought Norm. We can still talk about where he came in vs. the other 70's, or 50's after the race though. I'm guessing the trade up to the TTR90 is within $100 of what you'll spend on boring up anyway, especially if you include some cost for your labor on the work.

03-03-2004, 09:41 AM
YEAH, WHAT MARK SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SEE YOU AT WORLD! SUMMERS DAD

03-03-2004, 09:41 AM
YEAH, WHAT MARK SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SEE YOU AT WORLD! SUMMERS DAD

Steve McNamara
03-03-2004, 10:12 AM
Another factor in changing the class rules were the facts that there is more than 1 motorcycle with a big bore kit that wants to be able to ride in the Jr. Motard class. We have looked at a reasonable solution to the issue and it is solved. Lets make sure these little guys and gals have some safe fun, and that their parents don't get carried away!!!
See ya at TWS.

Steve McNamara
03-03-2004, 10:12 AM
Another factor in changing the class rules were the facts that there is more than 1 motorcycle with a big bore kit that wants to be able to ride in the Jr. Motard class. We have looked at a reasonable solution to the issue and it is solved. Lets make sure these little guys and gals have some safe fun, and that their parents don't get carried away!!!
See ya at TWS.

Jiveturky
03-03-2004, 06:45 PM
The only reason this discussion could in any way be conceived as "opening a can of worms" is our own inability to effectively communicate. I asked a very relevant question and offered two very simple solutions. Now I could see a problem if someone was just griping and did not take the time to entertain any thoughts that would lead us to a solution. But that was not the case. Our ability to freely ask questions and to have our BOD take time out of their busy schedules and objectively decide on the best course of action, is in my opinion what differentiates this club from the others. To hear some of your comments is rather perplexing. Competition doesn't matter, the only reason my kid is out there is for fun, why can't you just buy the TTR, not all of us wanted to complicate things or make them more expensive, and finally just leave everything alone. If you really believe this stuff then don't worry about gearing, or bore kits, or winning, or competing, or anything but having fun!! Nothing has changed for any of us except maybe another 2 or 3 more kids having a good time chasing William. When the BOD, and or the club members get to the point where they don't care about all of its members point of view then we will be in trouble.

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
03-03-2004, 06:45 PM
The only reason this discussion could in any way be conceived as "opening a can of worms" is our own inability to effectively communicate. I asked a very relevant question and offered two very simple solutions. Now I could see a problem if someone was just griping and did not take the time to entertain any thoughts that would lead us to a solution. But that was not the case. Our ability to freely ask questions and to have our BOD take time out of their busy schedules and objectively decide on the best course of action, is in my opinion what differentiates this club from the others. To hear some of your comments is rather perplexing. Competition doesn't matter, the only reason my kid is out there is for fun, why can't you just buy the TTR, not all of us wanted to complicate things or make them more expensive, and finally just leave everything alone. If you really believe this stuff then don't worry about gearing, or bore kits, or winning, or competing, or anything but having fun!! Nothing has changed for any of us except maybe another 2 or 3 more kids having a good time chasing William. When the BOD, and or the club members get to the point where they don't care about all of its members point of view then we will be in trouble.

Later, Eric

David Branyon
03-04-2004, 10:50 AM
Eric,
What's changed is that the kids used to have other kids on the same stock bikes that they could compete against/run with informally, even if at lower speeds than the fastest kids on 90's. Now, there's the chance that if most everyone gears/bores up, the one poor sap on a stock 50 or 70 will just watch as everyone leaves him all alone right off the starting line. It's still a step up from the spectator lap I guess.

Hey, an idea... any other XR70 riders/parents want to join in an informal sub-class of bone stock 70's with me? If there are a few that are stock, at least the kids will have someone to run with. Whatdya think?

David Branyon
03-04-2004, 10:50 AM
Eric,
What's changed is that the kids used to have other kids on the same stock bikes that they could compete against/run with informally, even if at lower speeds than the fastest kids on 90's. Now, there's the chance that if most everyone gears/bores up, the one poor sap on a stock 50 or 70 will just watch as everyone leaves him all alone right off the starting line. It's still a step up from the spectator lap I guess.

Hey, an idea... any other XR70 riders/parents want to join in an informal sub-class of bone stock 70's with me? If there are a few that are stock, at least the kids will have someone to run with. Whatdya think?

Harry Tomlinson
03-15-2004, 01:12 PM
I realize that I'm a "day late and a dollar short" on this, but I'm going to add my opinion briefly.
Brooks and I discussed this class a few years back (I'm not trying to take credit for anything). One of the overall concerns (first being safety) was simplicity.
The class was intended as a "powder-puff" so to speak. In fact, I think the only reason they went with the street tires was a safety issue!
This was meant to give the kid's something to be involved in at the track at a relatively low cost.
Just go out and ride, have fun and come back. Whomever wins, wins.
If you (parents) are so concerned about being competitive, just wait. At 10 get them a YSR, NSR... and let them get wet!
We're going to overthink this to it's demise.
Harry

Harry Tomlinson
03-15-2004, 01:12 PM
I realize that I'm a "day late and a dollar short" on this, but I'm going to add my opinion briefly.
Brooks and I discussed this class a few years back (I'm not trying to take credit for anything). One of the overall concerns (first being safety) was simplicity.
The class was intended as a "powder-puff" so to speak. In fact, I think the only reason they went with the street tires was a safety issue!
This was meant to give the kid's something to be involved in at the track at a relatively low cost.
Just go out and ride, have fun and come back. Whomever wins, wins.
If you (parents) are so concerned about being competitive, just wait. At 10 get them a YSR, NSR... and let them get wet!
We're going to overthink this to it's demise.
Harry

Chuck Ergle
03-15-2004, 10:09 PM
One of my initial concerns was that this should not turn into a "little league parent" class; sadly, that's what I see happening. Little Johnny or Janie's parents want their kid to win. We're trying to keep it simple and noncompetitive, but we keep getting pushed. The simplest formula is to keep it auto clutch and 90cc four stroke/50cc two stroke max, but there's already pushback. Next is the 50mph speed limit; interestingly, three bikes were over this past Sunday (53 and 54mph on the radar gun). I can't stress this enough: this is supposed to be fun for the kids, with little or no stress to win. I am still, in my voting capacity as a member of the board of directors, a very huge fan of stomping on overly competitive parents BUT HARD. I agree with Harry; if you want your kids to race for trophies and your secondhand glory, wait awhile and turn them loose in the real mini classes-- wily adult mini racers are waiting; they won't make them crash, but they don't take prisoners and they might make your little kid cry.

Chuck Ergle
03-15-2004, 10:09 PM
One of my initial concerns was that this should not turn into a "little league parent" class; sadly, that's what I see happening. Little Johnny or Janie's parents want their kid to win. We're trying to keep it simple and noncompetitive, but we keep getting pushed. The simplest formula is to keep it auto clutch and 90cc four stroke/50cc two stroke max, but there's already pushback. Next is the 50mph speed limit; interestingly, three bikes were over this past Sunday (53 and 54mph on the radar gun). I can't stress this enough: this is supposed to be fun for the kids, with little or no stress to win. I am still, in my voting capacity as a member of the board of directors, a very huge fan of stomping on overly competitive parents BUT HARD. I agree with Harry; if you want your kids to race for trophies and your secondhand glory, wait awhile and turn them loose in the real mini classes-- wily adult mini racers are waiting; they won't make them crash, but they don't take prisoners and they might make your little kid cry.

Brooks Gremmels
03-16-2004, 07:31 AM
In my opinion after watching this thread unfold and the Jr. Motard race at TWS, what started out as an idea for introducing children to this sport by providing an inexpensive entry level opportunity, has in its second season gone off track.
We now have folks hopping up their children's bikes. We have children being disqualified at the end of the race. And I'm sick about it.
I reiterate that the purpose of this class is to provide our children an opportunity to get a taste for the track in an inexpersive way. It was not to teach them to win. Skill, training and money in some measures will always be required to win. THAT WAS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS CLASS.
My suggestion is to return the class to the original rules and intent or to drop it.
Reread Harry's post, above.
(As for the top speed factor, if a child sits up as he/she is being timed on one lap and remembers to tuck on the next, I'll bet you the speed will be impacted by as much as 3 to 5 mph. Perhaps an allowance factor might be considered).
Brooks

Brooks Gremmels
03-16-2004, 07:31 AM
In my opinion after watching this thread unfold and the Jr. Motard race at TWS, what started out as an idea for introducing children to this sport by providing an inexpensive entry level opportunity, has in its second season gone off track.
We now have folks hopping up their children's bikes. We have children being disqualified at the end of the race. And I'm sick about it.
I reiterate that the purpose of this class is to provide our children an opportunity to get a taste for the track in an inexpersive way. It was not to teach them to win. Skill, training and money in some measures will always be required to win. THAT WAS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS CLASS.
My suggestion is to return the class to the original rules and intent or to drop it.
Reread Harry's post, above.
(As for the top speed factor, if a child sits up as he/she is being timed on one lap and remembers to tuck on the next, I'll bet you the speed will be impacted by as much as 3 to 5 mph. Perhaps an allowance factor might be considered).
Brooks

David Branyon
03-16-2004, 07:47 AM
My comments after this weekend: I believe in the final results, there were 5 entries that were dq'd. At least two of those (1 being my son) were within the speed limit during practice (per not being notified that we were over) but over in the race. The entire mods to my son's XR70 are that we finally found some DOT tires to put on it, and we did pull the spark arrestor off. I guess he tucked a little better during the race or something. We changed nothing between practice and the race.

First of all, a huge THANKS to the CMRA for having this class. My son and I talked about the race afterwards and he would even rather go out and be DQ'd than to have the race go away.

Secondly, it's tough being regulated on something that not a single bike has information on. Since no bike in the race had a speedo, it's just kind of a roll of the dice. We thought that the practice kind of cleared that, that we were under the limit, so we didn't have to take any additional action to make sure we stayed below 50, but oh well.

Thirdly, I'd agree with Brooks to go back to the original rules.

Fourthly, I don't care what we do, or whether my son finishes last, middle, or first. It's been a great learning experience for him, not only about racing skills, but about life. So, let's keep the class... somehow. I wholeheartedly agree that this is JUST jr. motard. If your kid is dead set on winning and you have extra money that is clogging up your extra bedroom at home, get him/her into minis. If he/she is only 8, you can start building on the super mini now so it will be ready to conquer the world in two years. Let's let the kids have fun and not go crazy with this.

Thanks everyone,

David Branyon
03-16-2004, 07:47 AM
My comments after this weekend: I believe in the final results, there were 5 entries that were dq'd. At least two of those (1 being my son) were within the speed limit during practice (per not being notified that we were over) but over in the race. The entire mods to my son's XR70 are that we finally found some DOT tires to put on it, and we did pull the spark arrestor off. I guess he tucked a little better during the race or something. We changed nothing between practice and the race.

First of all, a huge THANKS to the CMRA for having this class. My son and I talked about the race afterwards and he would even rather go out and be DQ'd than to have the race go away.

Secondly, it's tough being regulated on something that not a single bike has information on. Since no bike in the race had a speedo, it's just kind of a roll of the dice. We thought that the practice kind of cleared that, that we were under the limit, so we didn't have to take any additional action to make sure we stayed below 50, but oh well.

Thirdly, I'd agree with Brooks to go back to the original rules.

Fourthly, I don't care what we do, or whether my son finishes last, middle, or first. It's been a great learning experience for him, not only about racing skills, but about life. So, let's keep the class... somehow. I wholeheartedly agree that this is JUST jr. motard. If your kid is dead set on winning and you have extra money that is clogging up your extra bedroom at home, get him/her into minis. If he/she is only 8, you can start building on the super mini now so it will be ready to conquer the world in two years. Let's let the kids have fun and not go crazy with this.

Thanks everyone,

troysturtz
03-16-2004, 09:20 AM
I would like to see the Jr. Motard class stay around. I would like my son to be able to ride in it when he is ready. Please don't eliminate this class.

I am set up as dealer thru sproket specialist and will sell gearing at my cost to help those parents get their kids bikes down to 50 miles per hour. I will also deliver the gearing to the next race at Oak hill or ship it to you.

Front Sprokets for the TRR-90 around $6

Rear Sprockets for the TTR-90 around $21
over 46 tooth rears around 27 dollars.

I can be reached evenings at 918-307-2561

Hope this helps,

Troy Sturtz

Minimotard.com (Coming Soon)

troysturtz
03-16-2004, 09:20 AM
I would like to see the Jr. Motard class stay around. I would like my son to be able to ride in it when he is ready. Please don't eliminate this class.

I am set up as dealer thru sproket specialist and will sell gearing at my cost to help those parents get their kids bikes down to 50 miles per hour. I will also deliver the gearing to the next race at Oak hill or ship it to you.

Front Sprokets for the TRR-90 around $6

Rear Sprockets for the TTR-90 around $21
over 46 tooth rears around 27 dollars.

I can be reached evenings at 918-307-2561

Hope this helps,

Troy Sturtz

Minimotard.com (Coming Soon)

Bryan Norton
03-16-2004, 09:48 AM
Brooks _ I agree this is getting deep.

However - one of the primary intentions is a LOW COST class. a TTR90 only class with aftermarket wheels is not low cost.
Pure stock machines is definately low cost, but then you have:
1) People who buy bikes who have had minor mods, and now must go purchase new stock parts (not cheap)
2) Uneven machine performance levels.

The simple-est way to keep cost low was a max speed. The two tiered class was a good idea (50 and 90cc) but the two strokes are somewhat left out (a PW50 will outrun a Z50, and not compete with a PW80) I wouldn't want a 3 level jr motard class...

I have first hand knowledge of trying to get an 'inexpensive' machine to the track for this class.

Removing the end of year award was a good idea, along with random grids. I say we remove trophy places and award "finisher" to all riders (not DQed). Yes it sucks to DQ a child, but what else is there?

We know there were shennanegans with the 'stock' TTRs and gearing. Racing is competitive...We must continue to push this as more of a 'parade' lap type event.

This is supposed to be a way to get the children to experience racing without pressure. Between TMGP and this class, there are plenty of opportunity. When the time is right, Formula 7 is a good 'real' racing class.

Why not pull the top speed limit down even more, to 45Mph? That is still pretty fast for kids wearing motocross gear. It would make the class more 'boring' for those too serious.

Don't kill the class - I'm still trying to find leathers for my boy. He can't ride in the paddock, he can't even be in the hot pit during the mini endurance race (he's 11, limit is 16 per rulebook unless he's competing) (Yes I found an easy way around this- Purchase a regular license for him at $100, add him to my team. I don't have to let him ride, but now he is legal for my pit crew)
. I don't even think I'm taking him or his brother to Oak Hill for the 6 hour for these reasons. Once we get the leathers, his one and only high spot of the weekend will be the jr motard race.

Anyway - sorry for being long winded. I say keep the rules. After a couple of races parents will figure out the gearing and setup to remain within the limits, and the racing should be close between different machines.

Bryan Norton
03-16-2004, 09:48 AM
Brooks _ I agree this is getting deep.

However - one of the primary intentions is a LOW COST class. a TTR90 only class with aftermarket wheels is not low cost.
Pure stock machines is definately low cost, but then you have:
1) People who buy bikes who have had minor mods, and now must go purchase new stock parts (not cheap)
2) Uneven machine performance levels.

The simple-est way to keep cost low was a max speed. The two tiered class was a good idea (50 and 90cc) but the two strokes are somewhat left out (a PW50 will outrun a Z50, and not compete with a PW80) I wouldn't want a 3 level jr motard class...

I have first hand knowledge of trying to get an 'inexpensive' machine to the track for this class.

Removing the end of year award was a good idea, along with random grids. I say we remove trophy places and award "finisher" to all riders (not DQed). Yes it sucks to DQ a child, but what else is there?

We know there were shennanegans with the 'stock' TTRs and gearing. Racing is competitive...We must continue to push this as more of a 'parade' lap type event.

This is supposed to be a way to get the children to experience racing without pressure. Between TMGP and this class, there are plenty of opportunity. When the time is right, Formula 7 is a good 'real' racing class.

Why not pull the top speed limit down even more, to 45Mph? That is still pretty fast for kids wearing motocross gear. It would make the class more 'boring' for those too serious.

Don't kill the class - I'm still trying to find leathers for my boy. He can't ride in the paddock, he can't even be in the hot pit during the mini endurance race (he's 11, limit is 16 per rulebook unless he's competing) (Yes I found an easy way around this- Purchase a regular license for him at $100, add him to my team. I don't have to let him ride, but now he is legal for my pit crew)
. I don't even think I'm taking him or his brother to Oak Hill for the 6 hour for these reasons. Once we get the leathers, his one and only high spot of the weekend will be the jr motard race.

Anyway - sorry for being long winded. I say keep the rules. After a couple of races parents will figure out the gearing and setup to remain within the limits, and the racing should be close between different machines.

03-16-2004, 10:23 AM
ALL I HAVE HEARD IS HOW THE CLASS WAS BUILT AROUND THE THE TT-R 90!!!! DID ANYONE STOP AND THINK THAT MAYBE A BONE STOCK TT-R 90 WOULD DO OVER 50 MPH. SO,NOW WE HAVE TO DE-GEAR THE BIKE TO MAKE LEGAL,NUN THE LESS,MY DAUGHTER LIKES RUNNING WITH THE JR-MOTARDS,BUT EVEN SHE IS READY TO JUMP ON A YSR AND RIDE HER 49 MPH XR-50 IN THE JR-MOTARD.. JUST AN OPINION

03-16-2004, 10:23 AM
ALL I HAVE HEARD IS HOW THE CLASS WAS BUILT AROUND THE THE TT-R 90!!!! DID ANYONE STOP AND THINK THAT MAYBE A BONE STOCK TT-R 90 WOULD DO OVER 50 MPH. SO,NOW WE HAVE TO DE-GEAR THE BIKE TO MAKE LEGAL,NUN THE LESS,MY DAUGHTER LIKES RUNNING WITH THE JR-MOTARDS,BUT EVEN SHE IS READY TO JUMP ON A YSR AND RIDE HER 49 MPH XR-50 IN THE JR-MOTARD.. JUST AN OPINION

Steve McNamara
03-16-2004, 03:40 PM
Troy,
Thanks for the offer on the sprockets.

The top speed issue is the easiest solution to the problem. Sprockets are dirt cheap compared to the investment of the cost of a Jr. Motard bike.
I agree tucking, tail winds and other variables can affect top speed. I say buy sprockets, lower the gearing, and let your kids have fun.

Steve McNamara
03-16-2004, 03:40 PM
Troy,
Thanks for the offer on the sprockets.

The top speed issue is the easiest solution to the problem. Sprockets are dirt cheap compared to the investment of the cost of a Jr. Motard bike.
I agree tucking, tail winds and other variables can affect top speed. I say buy sprockets, lower the gearing, and let your kids have fun.

Jason Keene
03-16-2004, 06:05 PM
My daughter is three and loves the bikes. This topic is getting very stressed. I just told her she can run the mini class... I have a full head of hair and only plan on pulling it out over her choice of boyfriends.... not race class...

Jason Keene
03-16-2004, 06:05 PM
My daughter is three and loves the bikes. This topic is getting very stressed. I just told her she can run the mini class... I have a full head of hair and only plan on pulling it out over her choice of boyfriends.... not race class...

Jiveturky
03-16-2004, 09:51 PM
Steve,

Thanks for the post. I agree with most of these guys that things are somewhat out of hand. However, I am sure we would not agree on why they are out of hand. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Anyway, the gearing issue is a very small cost when you consider the bike cost. If the parents will post on this board what size of front sprocket they have on their bikes and bike type then Troy and I will bring sprockets and make them available at our cost to OHR. I will go one step further, if a family actually has a valid financial issue witht he purchase of this item then MiniMotard.com will donate the item and install it for free. Let's start with the front since it is cheaper and you won't have to buy a new chain.

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
03-16-2004, 09:51 PM
Steve,

Thanks for the post. I agree with most of these guys that things are somewhat out of hand. However, I am sure we would not agree on why they are out of hand. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Anyway, the gearing issue is a very small cost when you consider the bike cost. If the parents will post on this board what size of front sprocket they have on their bikes and bike type then Troy and I will bring sprockets and make them available at our cost to OHR. I will go one step further, if a family actually has a valid financial issue witht he purchase of this item then MiniMotard.com will donate the item and install it for free. Let's start with the front since it is cheaper and you won't have to buy a new chain.

Later, Eric

Bryan Altmeyer
03-17-2004, 07:44 AM
This is getting WAY out of hand. The kids are being punished for what the parents are doing here. It's not right! Me and my wife sat down with my son and explained what was happening and that the class is might go away. Now his mad at the parents who are causing all of this. LOL. What ever it takes to keep this class I'm all for it. Dividing into two classes like lightweight and heavyweight, top speed enforcement, original stock rules, what ever it takes just let me know.

I missed the TWS round and was wondering, for those TTR90's that were under the "50mph" mark what was the gearing on the bikes? Should we work out the gearing vs. top speed for all the bikes and have a standard gear that everyone runs? For instance, all TTR90's will run xf front and x rear or not to exceed x front or x rear, all xr and z 50's will run x front and x rear or not to exceed x front or x rear, all pw80's will run... assuming we stay with the 50 mph rule.

Bryan Altmeyer
03-17-2004, 07:44 AM
This is getting WAY out of hand. The kids are being punished for what the parents are doing here. It's not right! Me and my wife sat down with my son and explained what was happening and that the class is might go away. Now his mad at the parents who are causing all of this. LOL. What ever it takes to keep this class I'm all for it. Dividing into two classes like lightweight and heavyweight, top speed enforcement, original stock rules, what ever it takes just let me know.

I missed the TWS round and was wondering, for those TTR90's that were under the "50mph" mark what was the gearing on the bikes? Should we work out the gearing vs. top speed for all the bikes and have a standard gear that everyone runs? For instance, all TTR90's will run xf front and x rear or not to exceed x front or x rear, all xr and z 50's will run x front and x rear or not to exceed x front or x rear, all pw80's will run... assuming we stay with the 50 mph rule.

Jiveturky
03-17-2004, 11:01 AM
Ok, when you guys say "parents that are causing all of this" who exactly are you talking about. Because I figure that would be me. I want to be clear, I in no way have Little League Syndrom, nor do I need to be squashed, nor do I need my butt kicked hard, nor do I feel that I am in any way contributing to this so called issue. What exactly is the issue???????? I don't see it!!! The President of the club has basically lined out the rules. I will do my very best to support him in his decision and think that is our duty to do so. In order for this class to really be cost effective and fun for all kids then it needs to be a run what you brung type of class. I think the 50 MPH limit is just smart, the kids don't need to go any faster than that. A max CC limit is also a good thing for no other reason than Safety. The Auto clutch rule is not a problem for anyone the way I see it. So why is this a problem? And why would getting rid of the class even be an option? The rules are set in place, they are simple and non cost prohibitive, now all we need to do is kill this post and follow the rules.

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
03-17-2004, 11:01 AM
Ok, when you guys say "parents that are causing all of this" who exactly are you talking about. Because I figure that would be me. I want to be clear, I in no way have Little League Syndrom, nor do I need to be squashed, nor do I need my butt kicked hard, nor do I feel that I am in any way contributing to this so called issue. What exactly is the issue???????? I don't see it!!! The President of the club has basically lined out the rules. I will do my very best to support him in his decision and think that is our duty to do so. In order for this class to really be cost effective and fun for all kids then it needs to be a run what you brung type of class. I think the 50 MPH limit is just smart, the kids don't need to go any faster than that. A max CC limit is also a good thing for no other reason than Safety. The Auto clutch rule is not a problem for anyone the way I see it. So why is this a problem? And why would getting rid of the class even be an option? The rules are set in place, they are simple and non cost prohibitive, now all we need to do is kill this post and follow the rules.

Later, Eric

Bryan Altmeyer
03-17-2004, 11:21 AM
Easy there Eric. I guess it came out the wrong way, I'm not blaming you or anyone else. I don't know who, if any, parent started anything. All I know is that the class is in jeopardy from what I'm seeing and hearing and I don't like it. Like others have said, what was suppose to be a spec class has turned into to something else. I leave all rule changes up to the BOD, but keep in mind that too many more changes or complaints to and about the class might make CMRA shut the class down. I too, support the BOD's decision on the class in making it fun and equal for all. My youngest son is having a blast riding his bike around the track and I don't want to take that away from him or any other kid.

Bryan Altmeyer
03-17-2004, 11:21 AM
Easy there Eric. I guess it came out the wrong way, I'm not blaming you or anyone else. I don't know who, if any, parent started anything. All I know is that the class is in jeopardy from what I'm seeing and hearing and I don't like it. Like others have said, what was suppose to be a spec class has turned into to something else. I leave all rule changes up to the BOD, but keep in mind that too many more changes or complaints to and about the class might make CMRA shut the class down. I too, support the BOD's decision on the class in making it fun and equal for all. My youngest son is having a blast riding his bike around the track and I don't want to take that away from him or any other kid.

Harry Tomlinson
03-17-2004, 12:26 PM
This has become silly and YES, it is definitely beginning to sound like Little League parents syndrom (this thread has become four pages).
One class, stock gearing
Forget the speed limit, make it stock gearing (I thought is was already)
LET THE KIDS RIDE AND HAVE FUN
I am grateful that the club supports this class. I'm now more greatful that Garet has graduated to the minis.
By the way, last year Garet finished anywhere from 2nd to 6th and always knew that he was beaten by faster riders, not faster bikes. I've yet no notice any lasting emotional damage, even when he finished last in his first two mini races.

Harry Tomlinson
03-17-2004, 12:26 PM
This has become silly and YES, it is definitely beginning to sound like Little League parents syndrom (this thread has become four pages).
One class, stock gearing
Forget the speed limit, make it stock gearing (I thought is was already)
LET THE KIDS RIDE AND HAVE FUN
I am grateful that the club supports this class. I'm now more greatful that Garet has graduated to the minis.
By the way, last year Garet finished anywhere from 2nd to 6th and always knew that he was beaten by faster riders, not faster bikes. I've yet no notice any lasting emotional damage, even when he finished last in his first two mini races.

cedestech
03-17-2004, 12:51 PM
I noticed emotional damage to Garet this
weekend at TWS. He DNF'ed his mini race and
was still smiling ear to ear.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

cedestech
03-17-2004, 12:51 PM
I noticed emotional damage to Garet this
weekend at TWS. He DNF'ed his mini race and
was still smiling ear to ear.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

cedestech
03-17-2004, 12:59 PM
BTW: Straight up what Chuck said.

I've never "let" a kid beat me.

I've raced against Haydens, Spies, Landers,
Young, etc....

I've beat them and once they've got a clue they've beaten me.

I truely don't think there is anything more
fulfilling then being beat by a kid with
talent and then seeing them use that talent
later in life.

THAT is what this club is about and what the
MiniMotard class should be about.

cedestech
03-17-2004, 12:59 PM
BTW: Straight up what Chuck said.

I've never "let" a kid beat me.

I've raced against Haydens, Spies, Landers,
Young, etc....

I've beat them and once they've got a clue they've beaten me.

I truely don't think there is anything more
fulfilling then being beat by a kid with
talent and then seeing them use that talent
later in life.

THAT is what this club is about and what the
MiniMotard class should be about.

Keith Hertell
03-17-2004, 05:08 PM
OK - I've got it.

Jr. Motard Fun Run - everyone gets an award but no 1st thru etc.
no year end points
50 mph limit
stock gearing
stock pipe
anything under 90cc

This was never supposed to be a RACE.
I was to get the kids accustomed to the track. The mini's are for racing.
Jr Motard has 8-12 yr olds, that is a HUGE difference in skills. Fun Run or NOTHING!
IMHO!!!

Keith Hertell
03-17-2004, 05:08 PM
OK - I've got it.

Jr. Motard Fun Run - everyone gets an award but no 1st thru etc.
no year end points
50 mph limit
stock gearing
stock pipe
anything under 90cc

This was never supposed to be a RACE.
I was to get the kids accustomed to the track. The mini's are for racing.
Jr Motard has 8-12 yr olds, that is a HUGE difference in skills. Fun Run or NOTHING!
IMHO!!!

Jiveturky
03-17-2004, 07:30 PM
Keith,
I have already prepped an 88cc XR-50 per Steve's post. It will not exceed 50 MPH either.

Thanks, Eric

Jiveturky
03-17-2004, 07:30 PM
Keith,
I have already prepped an 88cc XR-50 per Steve's post. It will not exceed 50 MPH either.

Thanks, Eric

David Branyon
03-17-2004, 10:35 PM
The less competitive the better, IMHO, for this class.

Whatever y'all decide to do with this class, as long as we keep it is fine with me. We might not figure out the recipe for getting 50 mph, but as long as he only gets dq'd and no plaque, that's alright. As long as he gets to go out and go around the track... that's what he loves!

David Branyon
03-17-2004, 10:35 PM
The less competitive the better, IMHO, for this class.

Whatever y'all decide to do with this class, as long as we keep it is fine with me. We might not figure out the recipe for getting 50 mph, but as long as he only gets dq'd and no plaque, that's alright. As long as he gets to go out and go around the track... that's what he loves!

Steve McNamara
03-18-2004, 07:42 AM
Here's my last 2 cents worth.
The class rules allow up to 100cc's.
Auto clutch
Any mods
Maximum top speed 50mph.
I don't care if we DQ the whole field of riders as long as no young child gets hurt as we prepare them for minis, motards, or GSRX2000's. Maybe even future BOD members. Lets Race............

Steve McNamara
03-18-2004, 07:42 AM
Here's my last 2 cents worth.
The class rules allow up to 100cc's.
Auto clutch
Any mods
Maximum top speed 50mph.
I don't care if we DQ the whole field of riders as long as no young child gets hurt as we prepare them for minis, motards, or GSRX2000's. Maybe even future BOD members. Lets Race............

RS125R313
04-30-2004, 10:20 PM
A 2 liter GSXR ("GSRX2000's")?! How do you prepare for that? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

RS125R313
04-30-2004, 10:20 PM
A 2 liter GSXR ("GSRX2000's")?! How do you prepare for that? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif