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SAM ROMEO
06-28-2004, 05:31 PM
THIS MAY BE A DUMB QUESTION,BUT I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY SUZUKI SPECIFIES EX WHEN THEY LIST CONTIGENCY PRISES FOR CERTAIN CLASSES. IF A NOVICE FINISHES 3RD FASTEST BIKE IN A COMBINED EX / NOV CLASS (LIKE BUBBA DID LAST WEEK) IN THE D SUPERSPORT CLASS OF A CONTIGENCY PAYING RACE,WHY DOES THE "EXPERT" THAT FINISHED BEHIND HIM GET THE CASH FOR 3RD?? I BELEIVE ALL THE MANUFACTURERS DO THIS. WHY IS THIS & CAN IT BE CORRECTED FOR FUTURE NOVICES COMMING UP IN THE YEARS TO COME ?

SAM ROMEO
06-28-2004, 05:31 PM
THIS MAY BE A DUMB QUESTION,BUT I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY SUZUKI SPECIFIES EX WHEN THEY LIST CONTIGENCY PRISES FOR CERTAIN CLASSES. IF A NOVICE FINISHES 3RD FASTEST BIKE IN A COMBINED EX / NOV CLASS (LIKE BUBBA DID LAST WEEK) IN THE D SUPERSPORT CLASS OF A CONTIGENCY PAYING RACE,WHY DOES THE "EXPERT" THAT FINISHED BEHIND HIM GET THE CASH FOR 3RD?? I BELEIVE ALL THE MANUFACTURERS DO THIS. WHY IS THIS & CAN IT BE CORRECTED FOR FUTURE NOVICES COMMING UP IN THE YEARS TO COME ?

Bryan Norton
06-29-2004, 12:13 PM
I'm not on the board -
BUT
The reason why they only pay experts is it is a bad idea to pay novices.

If a novice is finishing in the top 5 of experts, they can ask to be bumped to expert status, and they will most likely be bumped no problem.

(Anyone can petition for movement to expert)

So why is it a bad idea to pay novices??? Because being a novice is meant to be a learning experience, with as little 'pressure' to win as possible.

If novices had opportunities for lots of contingency, there wouldn't be much of a reason to move to expert.

Bryan Norton
06-29-2004, 12:13 PM
I'm not on the board -
BUT
The reason why they only pay experts is it is a bad idea to pay novices.

If a novice is finishing in the top 5 of experts, they can ask to be bumped to expert status, and they will most likely be bumped no problem.

(Anyone can petition for movement to expert)

So why is it a bad idea to pay novices??? Because being a novice is meant to be a learning experience, with as little 'pressure' to win as possible.

If novices had opportunities for lots of contingency, there wouldn't be much of a reason to move to expert.

SAM ROMEO
06-29-2004, 01:41 PM
BRYAN
WHY WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO BE BUMPED UP TO EXPERT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON UNLESS THERE WAS A LOT OF MONEY AT STAKE (WHICH THERE ISN'T)AND THE NOVICE WAS FAST ENOUGHT TO OUTRUN ALL THE EXPERTS.ALSO MY SON PUTS AS MUCH PRESSURE ON HIMSELF TO WIN AS ANY EXPERT. HE SQUAKES ABOUT HIS TIRES AND CHASSIS SET UP AS MUCH AS ANYBODY ELSE TRYING EVERYTHING TO GO FASTER AND WIN. IF YOUR SAYING MOST NOVICES HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN,I MIGHT AGREE WITH YOU;BUT DON'T SAY THE PRESSURE ISN'T THERE..

SAM ROMEO
06-29-2004, 01:41 PM
BRYAN
WHY WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO BE BUMPED UP TO EXPERT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON UNLESS THERE WAS A LOT OF MONEY AT STAKE (WHICH THERE ISN'T)AND THE NOVICE WAS FAST ENOUGHT TO OUTRUN ALL THE EXPERTS.ALSO MY SON PUTS AS MUCH PRESSURE ON HIMSELF TO WIN AS ANY EXPERT. HE SQUAKES ABOUT HIS TIRES AND CHASSIS SET UP AS MUCH AS ANYBODY ELSE TRYING EVERYTHING TO GO FASTER AND WIN. IF YOUR SAYING MOST NOVICES HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN,I MIGHT AGREE WITH YOU;BUT DON'T SAY THE PRESSURE ISN'T THERE..

jroberts5407
06-29-2004, 02:42 PM
Chill out on the caps lock.

jroberts5407
06-29-2004, 02:42 PM
Chill out on the caps lock.

Craig Montgomery
06-29-2004, 04:55 PM
One thing I've learned over the years is that getting a manufacturer (much less 4 of them) to change any contingency rules is next to impossible. Suzuki’s wording on their contingency policy states that you must be an expert rider in an expert class. I think this rule helps to eliminate confusion in contingency scoring and tech (tech makes inspections for extra contingency requirements). I know there are amatuers that are capable of placing high enough for contingency money (even in the middle and heavyweight classes) but those races are typically separated. It surprises me that D Superstock (a manufacturer contingency paying class) is run as a 2nd wave in the 125GP race. It surely made for some “less than polite” passing at the beginning of that race (make that all 3 beginnings) but I guess there are few more classes this year.

Craig Montgomery
06-29-2004, 04:55 PM
One thing I've learned over the years is that getting a manufacturer (much less 4 of them) to change any contingency rules is next to impossible. Suzuki’s wording on their contingency policy states that you must be an expert rider in an expert class. I think this rule helps to eliminate confusion in contingency scoring and tech (tech makes inspections for extra contingency requirements). I know there are amatuers that are capable of placing high enough for contingency money (even in the middle and heavyweight classes) but those races are typically separated. It surprises me that D Superstock (a manufacturer contingency paying class) is run as a 2nd wave in the 125GP race. It surely made for some “less than polite” passing at the beginning of that race (make that all 3 beginnings) but I guess there are few more classes this year.

SAM ROMEO
06-29-2004, 05:17 PM
Craig
"less than polite passing" in those 3 starts in D superstock is a bit of an understatement. Maybe Walter or whoever sets up the grids might consider revamping the starting grids when the SV's run at TWS.

SAM ROMEO
06-29-2004, 05:17 PM
Craig
"less than polite passing" in those 3 starts in D superstock is a bit of an understatement. Maybe Walter or whoever sets up the grids might consider revamping the starting grids when the SV's run at TWS.

Derek Delpero
06-29-2004, 05:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by SAM ROMEO:
Craig
"less than polite passing" in those 3 starts in D superstock is a bit of an understatement. Maybe Walter or whoever sets up the grids might consider revamping the starting grids when the SV's run at TWS. </div></div>Also keep in mind that the 125 race is always a money paying race.

IMHO, it should be much easier for a faster sv rider to get around a slower 125 rider. If a 125 is holding an sv up in the corners, the sv should have no problem motoring a 125.

Derek Delpero
06-29-2004, 05:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by SAM ROMEO:
Craig
"less than polite passing" in those 3 starts in D superstock is a bit of an understatement. Maybe Walter or whoever sets up the grids might consider revamping the starting grids when the SV's run at TWS. </div></div>Also keep in mind that the 125 race is always a money paying race.

IMHO, it should be much easier for a faster sv rider to get around a slower 125 rider. If a 125 is holding an sv up in the corners, the sv should have no problem motoring a 125.

Michael Hamric
06-30-2004, 03:29 AM
Craig and Sam have a valid point regarding SVs gridding behind the 125s. Derek, it is not a matter of passing a 125, it is having to pass 4 or 5 125s at a time. Even though Tommy held the second wave until the 125s were well into T1, we were on top of them well before T8. It is no different at any of the other tracks. The "less than polite" passing is a necessity if you want to stay anywhere close to Messrs Montgomery and Falt (I have a dream). If we invert the grid, the SVs will more than likely be spread out by the time the leading 125s catch them.

Also, sorry for the 3rd re-start guys.

MH

Michael Hamric
06-30-2004, 03:29 AM
Craig and Sam have a valid point regarding SVs gridding behind the 125s. Derek, it is not a matter of passing a 125, it is having to pass 4 or 5 125s at a time. Even though Tommy held the second wave until the 125s were well into T1, we were on top of them well before T8. It is no different at any of the other tracks. The "less than polite" passing is a necessity if you want to stay anywhere close to Messrs Montgomery and Falt (I have a dream). If we invert the grid, the SVs will more than likely be spread out by the time the leading 125s catch them.

Also, sorry for the 3rd re-start guys.

MH

Craig Montgomery
06-30-2004, 09:05 AM
"Also keep in mind that the 125 race is always a money paying race. IMHO, it should be much easier for a faster sv rider to get around a slower 125 rider. If a 125 is holding an sv up in the corners, the sv should have no problem motoring a 125."

While the 125 race does pay money (even if the winner does only get like $100), that's not the reason those guys are racing 125s. The passing issue wasn't about being held up. It was about getting to the front as soon as possible. When you've got 68hp at TWS you don't have time to wait for a straight ya know. I just don't like being aggressive around guys that may not be use to that kind of riding. I do recall one Danny Eslick doing 50s and 51s on his 125 at TWS.

Craig Montgomery
06-30-2004, 09:05 AM
"Also keep in mind that the 125 race is always a money paying race. IMHO, it should be much easier for a faster sv rider to get around a slower 125 rider. If a 125 is holding an sv up in the corners, the sv should have no problem motoring a 125."

While the 125 race does pay money (even if the winner does only get like $100), that's not the reason those guys are racing 125s. The passing issue wasn't about being held up. It was about getting to the front as soon as possible. When you've got 68hp at TWS you don't have time to wait for a straight ya know. I just don't like being aggressive around guys that may not be use to that kind of riding. I do recall one Danny Eslick doing 50s and 51s on his 125 at TWS.

Derek Delpero
06-30-2004, 09:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Craig Montgomery:
"Also keep in mind that the 125 race is always a money paying race. IMHO, it should be much easier for a faster sv rider to get around a slower 125 rider. If a 125 is holding an sv up in the corners, the sv should have no problem motoring a 125."

While the 125 race does pay money (even if the winner does only get like $100), that's not the reason those guys are racing 125s. The passing issue wasn't about being held up. It was about getting to the front as soon as possible. When you've got 68hp at TWS you don't have time to wait for a straight ya know. I just don't like being aggressive around guys that may not be use to that kind of riding. I do recall one Danny Eslick doing 50s and 51s on his 125 at TWS. </div></div>True, and I think Will and Tyler were doing 52/53s. I definitly understand the issue, but having raced 125s I know it is much harder for a 125 to get around a slower SV. Compare your 68hp to low to mid 40s on a 125. Granted the 125 weighs a lot less, it makes nothing on the bottom end. Point being, an SV can park it in the corner and still get some sort of a drive out, the 125 doesn't have that advantage.

Also, at TWS there were several non gp 125 bikes.

Maybe some of the current 125 racers can chime in with their thoughts ...

Derek Delpero
06-30-2004, 09:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Craig Montgomery:
"Also keep in mind that the 125 race is always a money paying race. IMHO, it should be much easier for a faster sv rider to get around a slower 125 rider. If a 125 is holding an sv up in the corners, the sv should have no problem motoring a 125."

While the 125 race does pay money (even if the winner does only get like $100), that's not the reason those guys are racing 125s. The passing issue wasn't about being held up. It was about getting to the front as soon as possible. When you've got 68hp at TWS you don't have time to wait for a straight ya know. I just don't like being aggressive around guys that may not be use to that kind of riding. I do recall one Danny Eslick doing 50s and 51s on his 125 at TWS. </div></div>True, and I think Will and Tyler were doing 52/53s. I definitly understand the issue, but having raced 125s I know it is much harder for a 125 to get around a slower SV. Compare your 68hp to low to mid 40s on a 125. Granted the 125 weighs a lot less, it makes nothing on the bottom end. Point being, an SV can park it in the corner and still get some sort of a drive out, the 125 doesn't have that advantage.

Also, at TWS there were several non gp 125 bikes.

Maybe some of the current 125 racers can chime in with their thoughts ...

John Orchard
06-30-2004, 09:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Derek Delpero:
Maybe some of the current 125 racers can chime in with their thoughts ... </div></div>All four of em?? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

btw, what happens to the 5th place purse money when there are only four entries? (yes, I know there were 16 entries at TWS - Thank You Mexico!)

John Orchard
06-30-2004, 09:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Derek Delpero:
Maybe some of the current 125 racers can chime in with their thoughts ... </div></div>All four of em?? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

btw, what happens to the 5th place purse money when there are only four entries? (yes, I know there were 16 entries at TWS - Thank You Mexico!)

cedestech
06-30-2004, 09:47 AM
I "personaly" don't see a problem gridding the 125 behind the SV's.

I've been riding 125's since the early '90's and
there is "usually" only one or 2 truely fast guys. The rest are quick to hacks, me being in the later.

It is "safer" for a fast 125 rider to pass a SV
and make it stick then a "quick" SV to pass
a marginal 125. The quick 125 rider is going around and will be able to get away, especially
at the 3 slower tracks. The slower SV rider will
try and stuff the 125 or motor him only to
have the 125 coming back under the next turn.

The only caviot is the SV's screwing around on the grid while the 125's are overheating.

While 70+*C for a SV is fine and dandy it's
melting a 125 which we try to keep around 50*C.

0.02

cedestech
06-30-2004, 09:47 AM
I "personaly" don't see a problem gridding the 125 behind the SV's.

I've been riding 125's since the early '90's and
there is "usually" only one or 2 truely fast guys. The rest are quick to hacks, me being in the later.

It is "safer" for a fast 125 rider to pass a SV
and make it stick then a "quick" SV to pass
a marginal 125. The quick 125 rider is going around and will be able to get away, especially
at the 3 slower tracks. The slower SV rider will
try and stuff the 125 or motor him only to
have the 125 coming back under the next turn.

The only caviot is the SV's screwing around on the grid while the 125's are overheating.

While 70+*C for a SV is fine and dandy it's
melting a 125 which we try to keep around 50*C.

0.02

JesseJohnson
06-30-2004, 09:53 AM
Craig and Falt don't have a problem passing me on my 125 /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

TWS was an exception with the large number of the slower cup 125 bikes. Regular 125 GP races are usually only 5-8 bikes total, and not that much of a problem.

However, if our race started behind the SV's, most of which are slower than the top 5 125's, you would see some really unfriendly passing. Every pass would occur in a corner. We just don't have enough power to motor SV's on the straights.

Maybe we can run the 125 race combined with a small fast class like C superstock EX (or whatever it was that had 8 600's in it) as a second wave.

J

JesseJohnson
06-30-2004, 09:53 AM
Craig and Falt don't have a problem passing me on my 125 /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

TWS was an exception with the large number of the slower cup 125 bikes. Regular 125 GP races are usually only 5-8 bikes total, and not that much of a problem.

However, if our race started behind the SV's, most of which are slower than the top 5 125's, you would see some really unfriendly passing. Every pass would occur in a corner. We just don't have enough power to motor SV's on the straights.

Maybe we can run the 125 race combined with a small fast class like C superstock EX (or whatever it was that had 8 600's in it) as a second wave.

J

Craig Montgomery
06-30-2004, 09:54 AM
Man JohnO you crack me up man.

Anyway, I'm not sure how my SV horsepower compares to that of the 125s (every 8lbs is a HP??), but those things roll at TWS. I'm not advocating starting in front of 125s here, just explaining that putting a "manufacturer contingency paying race" in a 2nd wave is pretty ridiculous. I don't mind starting from the back. I just feel for some of the guys that I have to pass.

Craig Montgomery
06-30-2004, 09:54 AM
Man JohnO you crack me up man.

Anyway, I'm not sure how my SV horsepower compares to that of the 125s (every 8lbs is a HP??), but those things roll at TWS. I'm not advocating starting in front of 125s here, just explaining that putting a "manufacturer contingency paying race" in a 2nd wave is pretty ridiculous. I don't mind starting from the back. I just feel for some of the guys that I have to pass.

cedestech
06-30-2004, 11:44 AM
I say stagger and invert the grid.

Slowest people to fastest and 125/sv/125/sv/etc...

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

cedestech
06-30-2004, 11:44 AM
I say stagger and invert the grid.

Slowest people to fastest and 125/sv/125/sv/etc...

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Derek Delpero
06-30-2004, 12:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
I say stagger and invert the grid.

Slowest people to fastest and 125/sv/125/sv/etc...

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>Wouldn't that just be the F2 class? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Derek Delpero
06-30-2004, 12:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
I say stagger and invert the grid.

Slowest people to fastest and 125/sv/125/sv/etc...

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>Wouldn't that just be the F2 class? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

SAM ROMEO
06-30-2004, 04:18 PM
Emmett - Your suggestion of staggering the 125's and SV's in the same starting grid should be easier to do now that we have the transponders. It sure would be a lot safer..How about it Derek ? Is it possible to do this ??

SAM ROMEO
06-30-2004, 04:18 PM
Emmett - Your suggestion of staggering the 125's and SV's in the same starting grid should be easier to do now that we have the transponders. It sure would be a lot safer..How about it Derek ? Is it possible to do this ??

Derek Delpero
06-30-2004, 04:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by SAM ROMEO:
Emmett - Your suggestion of staggering the 125's and SV's in the same starting grid should be easier to do now that we have the transponders. It sure would be a lot safer..How about it Derek ? Is it possible to do this ?? </div></div>LOL! Not my decision to make and I don't even want to think about the logic behind creating that grid! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Derek Delpero
06-30-2004, 04:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by SAM ROMEO:
Emmett - Your suggestion of staggering the 125's and SV's in the same starting grid should be easier to do now that we have the transponders. It sure would be a lot safer..How about it Derek ? Is it possible to do this ?? </div></div>LOL! Not my decision to make and I don't even want to think about the logic behind creating that grid! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

KELLY DAVIS
07-01-2004, 12:25 AM
We could draw stralls? I think the SVs should be grided up front. I felt sorry for all the GP guys after three starts. Im sure I did my share of close passing. I would think that if the SVs were gridded up front and the second wave was held like the third restart at TWS the bikes would sort themselves out better. M2C

KELLY DAVIS
07-01-2004, 12:25 AM
We could draw stralls? I think the SVs should be grided up front. I felt sorry for all the GP guys after three starts. Im sure I did my share of close passing. I would think that if the SVs were gridded up front and the second wave was held like the third restart at TWS the bikes would sort themselves out better. M2C

TFox
07-01-2004, 10:21 AM
[this thread has been hijacked, and I'm now helping . . .]

Hmmm, I'm thinking the easiest solution is to extend the wait period for the 2nd wave at TWS so that the 125s are well out on their own way.

I saw the problem of early overtaking on the first start of the race and extended the waiting period even longer for the restart. And then even longer still on the 2nd restart. Craig is one fast rider, you gotta know that!


BTW, I'm trying already to be very sensitive to the 125s overheating on the grid and in the pre-grid (I've been a hack 125 racer myself) -- but there is no way to release the first wave without the entire grid set (you never can trust the second wave to stay in place until their green flag is shown).

Last time at HMRC, during the extended pre-grid waiting times, I recommended some of the 125s take a loop around the pit roads. I think only Daniel Browning understood what I was trying to communicate . . . he looped around the pit road at a reasonable and safe pace just to get some air through the radiator. At HMRC, we hafta wait on the entry/exit gate to be closed before allowing the hot lap to begin.

TFox
07-01-2004, 10:21 AM
[this thread has been hijacked, and I'm now helping . . .]

Hmmm, I'm thinking the easiest solution is to extend the wait period for the 2nd wave at TWS so that the 125s are well out on their own way.

I saw the problem of early overtaking on the first start of the race and extended the waiting period even longer for the restart. And then even longer still on the 2nd restart. Craig is one fast rider, you gotta know that!


BTW, I'm trying already to be very sensitive to the 125s overheating on the grid and in the pre-grid (I've been a hack 125 racer myself) -- but there is no way to release the first wave without the entire grid set (you never can trust the second wave to stay in place until their green flag is shown).

Last time at HMRC, during the extended pre-grid waiting times, I recommended some of the 125s take a loop around the pit roads. I think only Daniel Browning understood what I was trying to communicate . . . he looped around the pit road at a reasonable and safe pace just to get some air through the radiator. At HMRC, we hafta wait on the entry/exit gate to be closed before allowing the hot lap to begin.

SAM ROMEO
07-01-2004, 11:06 AM
Tommy
I don't think we'd have the overheating problem with the 125's if the anouncer who called the riders to the line was more intuned to your starting the race. I was told that the ambulance was still on the track during the wait for those 2 restarts in race 13. We all understand the need to get thru the entire day as soon as possible but the riders can wait in the pits easier than on the pit road for obvious reasons.

SAM ROMEO
07-01-2004, 11:06 AM
Tommy
I don't think we'd have the overheating problem with the 125's if the anouncer who called the riders to the line was more intuned to your starting the race. I was told that the ambulance was still on the track during the wait for those 2 restarts in race 13. We all understand the need to get thru the entire day as soon as possible but the riders can wait in the pits easier than on the pit road for obvious reasons.

Craig Montgomery
07-01-2004, 04:35 PM
I don't think you need to hold the 2nd wave up any longer. Eventually you'll run into a problem with 125s lapping the next wave and that would surely suck. I just didn't realize all those guys were from Mexico. Sall good.

Craig Montgomery
07-01-2004, 04:35 PM
I don't think you need to hold the 2nd wave up any longer. Eventually you'll run into a problem with 125s lapping the next wave and that would surely suck. I just didn't realize all those guys were from Mexico. Sall good.

cedestech
07-01-2004, 07:36 PM
(spoken in a quiet voice....)

The staggered gridding was a lame attempt at
humor.

As Tommy aludded to the warm up lap slow or fast is not the problem with 125's overheating it's the people who show up to the grid not ready to race, not knowing their grid position, what ever.

After a 125/250 has warmed up to 40*C you can take off, you aren't really supposed to give it
nuts till 50*C. As soon as you stop it will
start to load up/over heat at a rate of about
10*C every 30 seconds. At 70*C it has already lost about 5 of it's 40ish HP which means when the flag drops it is reeeeaaalllyyyy hard to get it off the line. If you notice most of the
2 stroke guys who have been doing this for a while wait to be one of the last out on the
hot lap.

As I stated before which doesn't exactly agree with some of the other 125 guys I don't care where I start as long as every one in "my" race
starts with me.

The problem with the 125's in frt. is the
fast SV guys are into them pretty quick. The problem with the 125's in back is the not so
mentaly prepaired SV riders screwing around on the grid.

I mandate every one has to ride GP based machinery and the problem would be solved.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

cedestech
07-01-2004, 07:36 PM
(spoken in a quiet voice....)

The staggered gridding was a lame attempt at
humor.

As Tommy aludded to the warm up lap slow or fast is not the problem with 125's overheating it's the people who show up to the grid not ready to race, not knowing their grid position, what ever.

After a 125/250 has warmed up to 40*C you can take off, you aren't really supposed to give it
nuts till 50*C. As soon as you stop it will
start to load up/over heat at a rate of about
10*C every 30 seconds. At 70*C it has already lost about 5 of it's 40ish HP which means when the flag drops it is reeeeaaalllyyyy hard to get it off the line. If you notice most of the
2 stroke guys who have been doing this for a while wait to be one of the last out on the
hot lap.

As I stated before which doesn't exactly agree with some of the other 125 guys I don't care where I start as long as every one in "my" race
starts with me.

The problem with the 125's in frt. is the
fast SV guys are into them pretty quick. The problem with the 125's in back is the not so
mentaly prepaired SV riders screwing around on the grid.

I mandate every one has to ride GP based machinery and the problem would be solved.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

KELLY DAVIS
07-02-2004, 09:10 AM
Lets move the SVs up front on the grid. If one of them is taking to long, start the count and drop the flag. I dont run a cooling fan on my bike and it to is getting to hot on the grid. Once a guy gets cought unprepaired on the grid and left behind at the start he will probly get his act together.

KELLY DAVIS
07-02-2004, 09:10 AM
Lets move the SVs up front on the grid. If one of them is taking to long, start the count and drop the flag. I dont run a cooling fan on my bike and it to is getting to hot on the grid. Once a guy gets cought unprepaired on the grid and left behind at the start he will probly get his act together.

JesseJohnson
07-02-2004, 12:41 PM
An example using laptimes from this past race. If I'm gridded behind the SV class, I would have had to pass 9 SV's, and Will&Tyler would have had to pass all 15 of them. Actually, it would have been more like I would have only been able to pass 6 or 7 of them due to slower laptimes passing people. Or who knows, my laptimes might have been better chasing down people.

With the exception of the last TWS race (and all of the NON-GP machines running up in the 125 class), do the fast SV guys really have a problem with the slow 4 or 5 RS125's that they actually catch? That's not a big deal to me. Besides, only Falt and Craig usually catch me, and I'm sure the slower 125 riders are no problem for them to pass.

JesseJohnson
07-02-2004, 12:41 PM
An example using laptimes from this past race. If I'm gridded behind the SV class, I would have had to pass 9 SV's, and Will&Tyler would have had to pass all 15 of them. Actually, it would have been more like I would have only been able to pass 6 or 7 of them due to slower laptimes passing people. Or who knows, my laptimes might have been better chasing down people.

With the exception of the last TWS race (and all of the NON-GP machines running up in the 125 class), do the fast SV guys really have a problem with the slow 4 or 5 RS125's that they actually catch? That's not a big deal to me. Besides, only Falt and Craig usually catch me, and I'm sure the slower 125 riders are no problem for them to pass.

SAM ROMEO
07-02-2004, 06:10 PM
Jess
If you look at the times,you had at least 3 novices on SV's that were better than 2 seconds per lap faster than you. Had that been a 6 or 8 lap race with no slower bikes to get in the way of those first 3 novices,you would most likely have been passed also. Why not start the 125's and SV's at the same time. Let the drag race to the 1st turn sort everybody out ..

SAM ROMEO
07-02-2004, 06:10 PM
Jess
If you look at the times,you had at least 3 novices on SV's that were better than 2 seconds per lap faster than you. Had that been a 6 or 8 lap race with no slower bikes to get in the way of those first 3 novices,you would most likely have been passed also. Why not start the 125's and SV's at the same time. Let the drag race to the 1st turn sort everybody out ..

JesseJohnson
07-02-2004, 09:02 PM
Ohh for sure I would have been caught. My point was not that I beat all of the SV's. Jon Francis caught me from the back row earlier in the day easily.

My point was that on a normal day, this race meant most of those guys would have only to pass the 3 or 4 slower 125's. If I had beeng gridded behind the SVs, I would have caught between 6 and 8 bikes, and our fastest 125 riders would have had to fight through all 15. Making a pass on a 125 stick on an SV at TWS is not a pretty thing. The SV will just motor around on the next straight.

It won't be that much an issue at the less HP friendly tracks, and we won't have the extra riders from Mexico either that you guys had to pass.

Jess

JesseJohnson
07-02-2004, 09:02 PM
Ohh for sure I would have been caught. My point was not that I beat all of the SV's. Jon Francis caught me from the back row earlier in the day easily.

My point was that on a normal day, this race meant most of those guys would have only to pass the 3 or 4 slower 125's. If I had beeng gridded behind the SVs, I would have caught between 6 and 8 bikes, and our fastest 125 riders would have had to fight through all 15. Making a pass on a 125 stick on an SV at TWS is not a pretty thing. The SV will just motor around on the next straight.

It won't be that much an issue at the less HP friendly tracks, and we won't have the extra riders from Mexico either that you guys had to pass.

Jess

cedestech
07-02-2004, 09:21 PM
So will the lower drag coefeciant of the
thinner air in Hallet help those
SV lap times or will the lighter weight of the
125's because of the further distance from the
earths core help their corner speed.

Does a tree that falls in the forest by itself
burst in to plywood?

Mmmmmmmm....Love the taste of paint thinner in the morning.

cedestech
07-02-2004, 09:21 PM
So will the lower drag coefeciant of the
thinner air in Hallet help those
SV lap times or will the lighter weight of the
125's because of the further distance from the
earths core help their corner speed.

Does a tree that falls in the forest by itself
burst in to plywood?

Mmmmmmmm....Love the taste of paint thinner in the morning.

SAM ROMEO
07-03-2004, 03:35 PM
JESS
I agree 100% with what you said. Most of the 125's should eat the sv's a new one at Hallett.

SAM ROMEO
07-03-2004, 03:35 PM
JESS
I agree 100% with what you said. Most of the 125's should eat the sv's a new one at Hallett.