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View Full Version : Mini Endurance hours......



cedestech
10-11-2004, 05:08 PM
Walter?

How about giving the mini endurance a few more hours?

Say 25 from the current 20?

Pleassssssseeeee????????????

Chime in anyone else please, I hate to be a
lone voice in the forest.

cedestech
10-11-2004, 05:08 PM
Walter?

How about giving the mini endurance a few more hours?

Say 25 from the current 20?

Pleassssssseeeee????????????

Chime in anyone else please, I hate to be a
lone voice in the forest.

Jason Keene
10-11-2004, 06:04 PM
I would also like to see more mini time...

If possible....

Jason Keene
10-11-2004, 06:04 PM
I would also like to see more mini time...

If possible....

Daniel Browning
10-11-2004, 06:12 PM
Im not running the moose next year because of the small amount of time..

Daniel Browning
10-11-2004, 06:12 PM
Im not running the moose next year because of the small amount of time..

Jiveturky
10-11-2004, 06:48 PM
I think Daniel is scarred of getting beat by Hunkered Down!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif ONE POINT!!! Seriously though I would like to see a little more time dedicated. Another thing I would like to see is a competative class for midi motards bikes include heavily modded CRF 150's, CRF 230's, Kawsuki RM and KX 80's, Honda CR 80's, and Yamaha YZ 80's. I know of at least 5 of these bikes presently ready to go but are uncompetative in Formula 4. Let's do something. The GP 60 machines could easily fit into this class, then they wouldn't have it as easy. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
10-11-2004, 06:48 PM
I think Daniel is scarred of getting beat by Hunkered Down!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif ONE POINT!!! Seriously though I would like to see a little more time dedicated. Another thing I would like to see is a competative class for midi motards bikes include heavily modded CRF 150's, CRF 230's, Kawsuki RM and KX 80's, Honda CR 80's, and Yamaha YZ 80's. I know of at least 5 of these bikes presently ready to go but are uncompetative in Formula 4. Let's do something. The GP 60 machines could easily fit into this class, then they wouldn't have it as easy. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Later, Eric

Bryan Norton
10-11-2004, 09:57 PM
Eric - Original frame 80cc dirt bikes in Formula 5? (Jack Gieseke?)

up to 150cc air cooled in Formula 6? (Jesse D - you like that?)


I'm not sure about the CRF230's...maybe original frame ok for Formula 5?

I was disappointed in F5 this year, there were only a few entries in the last endurance race. The other classes were great.

I don't wanna change toooooo much in the class structure, but what about the above?

I had an absolute blast this year, and can't decide whether to run the TZ80 or MZ125 next year. I have to sell one to afford to race the other...

Bryan Norton
10-11-2004, 09:57 PM
Eric - Original frame 80cc dirt bikes in Formula 5? (Jack Gieseke?)

up to 150cc air cooled in Formula 6? (Jesse D - you like that?)


I'm not sure about the CRF230's...maybe original frame ok for Formula 5?

I was disappointed in F5 this year, there were only a few entries in the last endurance race. The other classes were great.

I don't wanna change toooooo much in the class structure, but what about the above?

I had an absolute blast this year, and can't decide whether to run the TZ80 or MZ125 next year. I have to sell one to afford to race the other...

waytooslow
10-11-2004, 11:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
Eric - Original frame 80cc dirt bikes in Formula 5? (Jack Gieseke?)

up to 150cc air cooled in Formula 6? (Jesse D - you like that?)


I'm not sure about the CRF230's...maybe original frame ok for Formula 5?.... - paraphased
</div></div>makes more sense to me for sure...the 230 in the F4 was almost a joke at best, F4 times look more like big bikes than mini's. I do see the need for the class, but to put a 16 horse midi tard, in the same class.... well all you have to look at is the tmes...
Thanks Bryan for all your hard work, getting the classes more evened out - if at all possible.

And Eric... great ideas as well..

230F in a V4.5 class... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

waytooslow
10-11-2004, 11:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
Eric - Original frame 80cc dirt bikes in Formula 5? (Jack Gieseke?)

up to 150cc air cooled in Formula 6? (Jesse D - you like that?)


I'm not sure about the CRF230's...maybe original frame ok for Formula 5?.... - paraphased
</div></div>makes more sense to me for sure...the 230 in the F4 was almost a joke at best, F4 times look more like big bikes than mini's. I do see the need for the class, but to put a 16 horse midi tard, in the same class.... well all you have to look at is the tmes...
Thanks Bryan for all your hard work, getting the classes more evened out - if at all possible.

And Eric... great ideas as well..

230F in a V4.5 class... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

cedestech
10-11-2004, 11:12 PM
You should leave the F6 class at
125cc air cooled super bike.

We had a hard time with a propperly ridden
MZ and if they had 1 more hp it would be even
worse.

cedestech
10-11-2004, 11:12 PM
You should leave the F6 class at
125cc air cooled super bike.

We had a hard time with a propperly ridden
MZ and if they had 1 more hp it would be even
worse.

metricracer
10-11-2004, 11:56 PM
Bryan, Don't give up on F5. Several are being debuged in the mini club and mine should be ready next year. It takes a little more time for some of us poor guys. I've also got my TZ60 running finally. We tested it at the last Katy 2 hr and it almost killed us physically but the bike stayed together. Couple of more tweaks over the winter and I'll be out there on the bigger tracks were it belongs. Doubt we could take a bored-out 150 with my 60 though. I think even Anthony and Jack (on an 80) got beat by a couple at Denton.

metricracer
10-11-2004, 11:56 PM
Bryan, Don't give up on F5. Several are being debuged in the mini club and mine should be ready next year. It takes a little more time for some of us poor guys. I've also got my TZ60 running finally. We tested it at the last Katy 2 hr and it almost killed us physically but the bike stayed together. Couple of more tweaks over the winter and I'll be out there on the bigger tracks were it belongs. Doubt we could take a bored-out 150 with my 60 though. I think even Anthony and Jack (on an 80) got beat by a couple at Denton.

Bryan Norton
10-12-2004, 01:42 AM
Emmett, that wouldn't effect the MZ's, they're water cooled. It would give the TTR's a little oomph, and the CRFs a place to play.

Note that a XR100 did pretty danged good at Cresson, even though it was F7 legal!
My MZ had the same straightaway speed as that bike, I could only pass them by drafting, and they could only pass me the same way (most of the time). It was an absolute blast! Of course, Keith turned 3 seconds a lap faster than me, but thats all riding skillz.

I don't wanna muck with the classes too much, just want to make sure as many bikes have a fair chance as possible.

Bryan Norton
10-12-2004, 01:42 AM
Emmett, that wouldn't effect the MZ's, they're water cooled. It would give the TTR's a little oomph, and the CRFs a place to play.

Note that a XR100 did pretty danged good at Cresson, even though it was F7 legal!
My MZ had the same straightaway speed as that bike, I could only pass them by drafting, and they could only pass me the same way (most of the time). It was an absolute blast! Of course, Keith turned 3 seconds a lap faster than me, but thats all riding skillz.

I don't wanna muck with the classes too much, just want to make sure as many bikes have a fair chance as possible.

cedestech
10-12-2004, 05:52 AM
I thought the MZ was air cooled. Shows how much
I know. Cool.

I felt real bad for Dusten this weekend. I threw the bike down twice in 30 minutes at the 6 hour effectively loosing us 1 hours worth of laps.
We knew the only way to catch him in the points was for him to have at least a hours worth of issues. Well, I think blowing a motor midway in a
3 hour endurnace is some issues.

The MZ125's are a good platform. We really have
to work to keep up.

God bless HRC and their most excellent products!

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

cedestech
10-12-2004, 05:52 AM
I thought the MZ was air cooled. Shows how much
I know. Cool.

I felt real bad for Dusten this weekend. I threw the bike down twice in 30 minutes at the 6 hour effectively loosing us 1 hours worth of laps.
We knew the only way to catch him in the points was for him to have at least a hours worth of issues. Well, I think blowing a motor midway in a
3 hour endurnace is some issues.

The MZ125's are a good platform. We really have
to work to keep up.

God bless HRC and their most excellent products!

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

TX_03_RC51
10-12-2004, 11:39 AM
I agree with changing the class structure. I think the engine sizes for the motards, esp the SOHC air-cooled machines should be increased, at the minimum.

TX_03_RC51
10-12-2004, 11:39 AM
I agree with changing the class structure. I think the engine sizes for the motards, esp the SOHC air-cooled machines should be increased, at the minimum.

TX_03_RC51
10-12-2004, 11:49 AM
...and as far as the hours are concerned, I would love to see at least a 4 hour minimum for the enurance races. I have a real hard time driving 600 or so miles for a 2hr race in hallet, OK. It's almost not worth it

TX_03_RC51
10-12-2004, 11:49 AM
...and as far as the hours are concerned, I would love to see at least a 4 hour minimum for the enurance races. I have a real hard time driving 600 or so miles for a 2hr race in hallet, OK. It's almost not worth it

cedestech
10-12-2004, 02:19 PM
Hold on folks. There was a major rule rewrite last year. Minor tweaking may be Okay but you
should really let things settle for at least 2 years before making severe adjustments.

I don't want to throw stones but alot of
poor lap times come down to poor riding,
poor finishes to poor preperation and
poor overall placing with good lap times to
poor planing and exicution of pit stops.

4+ seconds per lap time advantage goes to hell if
you spend 60 seconds in the pits.

The bikes are VERY even right now with few exceptions.

Look at our results compared to all of the
F5 results. Look at the lap times. 99% of the
F5 bikes are faster per lap but we murder them
with consistancy, quick stops and reliability.

cedestech
10-12-2004, 02:19 PM
Hold on folks. There was a major rule rewrite last year. Minor tweaking may be Okay but you
should really let things settle for at least 2 years before making severe adjustments.

I don't want to throw stones but alot of
poor lap times come down to poor riding,
poor finishes to poor preperation and
poor overall placing with good lap times to
poor planing and exicution of pit stops.

4+ seconds per lap time advantage goes to hell if
you spend 60 seconds in the pits.

The bikes are VERY even right now with few exceptions.

Look at our results compared to all of the
F5 results. Look at the lap times. 99% of the
F5 bikes are faster per lap but we murder them
with consistancy, quick stops and reliability.

waytooslow
10-12-2004, 09:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
Hold on folks. There was a major rule rewrite last year. Minor tweaking may be Okay but you
should really let things settle for at least 2 years before making severe adjustments.

........ para--- phrased</div></div>Emmett,

I agree a total rework may not be the best, but it is fairly apparent that some adjustments are needed, for the midi tards especially, heavy under powered etc... not all us stuff a xr250 into a GP frame ( /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif no jabs Daniel).

So we run what we can. SOHC 150/230 etc could compete, if you dump 3-4 grand into the engine - maybe a JATO rocket? - /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Will having to stay in F4 make me/us stop racing? - Nope...

So maybe some shifting of machines that are being run to different classes is a good thing.. Looking forward to reading more comments.. even yours Emmitt :p /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

waytooslow
10-12-2004, 09:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
Hold on folks. There was a major rule rewrite last year. Minor tweaking may be Okay but you
should really let things settle for at least 2 years before making severe adjustments.

........ para--- phrased</div></div>Emmett,

I agree a total rework may not be the best, but it is fairly apparent that some adjustments are needed, for the midi tards especially, heavy under powered etc... not all us stuff a xr250 into a GP frame ( /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif no jabs Daniel).

So we run what we can. SOHC 150/230 etc could compete, if you dump 3-4 grand into the engine - maybe a JATO rocket? - /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Will having to stay in F4 make me/us stop racing? - Nope...

So maybe some shifting of machines that are being run to different classes is a good thing.. Looking forward to reading more comments.. even yours Emmitt :p /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Daniel Browning
10-12-2004, 09:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not all us stuff a xr250 into a GP frame ( /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif no jabs Daniel).

[/QB]</div></div>still a hater arent you emmett.. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Daniel Browning
10-12-2004, 09:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not all us stuff a xr250 into a GP frame ( /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif no jabs Daniel).

[/QB]</div></div>still a hater arent you emmett.. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

cedestech
10-12-2004, 09:54 PM
Ahh, but there is the rub.

A 150/230 could compete if you dump 3-4G into
it.

If it gets knocked down a class or 2 there will
bw poeple dumping 3-4 grand to have a class
dominating bike.

Daneil creatively exploited the rules. With good
results. His motor was mostly stock. They would have done even better with better preperation and
a little less crashing.

I'm just saying you shouldn't complain when
trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear and
it doesn't work. If it did you wouldn't be
aurguing to have your bike restricted or
bumped up a class.

As with all classes, big and small bike. You
have to read the rules, figure out what is the
best weapon for that class and work in that direction.

An EX500 used to be a light weight class
dominating bike with little work.
A highly modified one can't keep up with a
lightly modified SV's fart. That would effectively make a person reason that a EX500 is
a poor choice for the LW class.

Our bike is at a developemental pinicle.
We could move up in displacement to the F5 class
but our chassis won't handle 5 more hp.
I could get more HP out of it in the F6
configuration but would loose drivability and
reliability.

Another perfect example is Will and Tyler on
the 'tard in big bike LW endurnace. They
shouldn't do as well as they do but they ride fast, don't screw around in the pits and slam
down laps.

I just don't want to see pandering.

Look at the F7 class. They put XR100's in there
so several people figured they'd build huge dollar bikes and dominate. On paper they should
but they hand grenade. Bobby and them have done really well on a fairly stocke bike and that is what the rules intended.

cedestech
10-12-2004, 09:54 PM
Ahh, but there is the rub.

A 150/230 could compete if you dump 3-4G into
it.

If it gets knocked down a class or 2 there will
bw poeple dumping 3-4 grand to have a class
dominating bike.

Daneil creatively exploited the rules. With good
results. His motor was mostly stock. They would have done even better with better preperation and
a little less crashing.

I'm just saying you shouldn't complain when
trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear and
it doesn't work. If it did you wouldn't be
aurguing to have your bike restricted or
bumped up a class.

As with all classes, big and small bike. You
have to read the rules, figure out what is the
best weapon for that class and work in that direction.

An EX500 used to be a light weight class
dominating bike with little work.
A highly modified one can't keep up with a
lightly modified SV's fart. That would effectively make a person reason that a EX500 is
a poor choice for the LW class.

Our bike is at a developemental pinicle.
We could move up in displacement to the F5 class
but our chassis won't handle 5 more hp.
I could get more HP out of it in the F6
configuration but would loose drivability and
reliability.

Another perfect example is Will and Tyler on
the 'tard in big bike LW endurnace. They
shouldn't do as well as they do but they ride fast, don't screw around in the pits and slam
down laps.

I just don't want to see pandering.

Look at the F7 class. They put XR100's in there
so several people figured they'd build huge dollar bikes and dominate. On paper they should
but they hand grenade. Bobby and them have done really well on a fairly stocke bike and that is what the rules intended.

cedestech
10-12-2004, 09:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Daniel Browning:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not all us stuff a xr250 into a GP frame ( /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif no jabs Daniel).

</div></div>still a hater arent you emmett.. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif [/QB]</div></div>Hey! that was scot, I'm a moose lover now!

cedestech
10-12-2004, 09:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Daniel Browning:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not all us stuff a xr250 into a GP frame ( /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif no jabs Daniel).

</div></div>still a hater arent you emmett.. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif [/QB]</div></div>Hey! that was scot, I'm a moose lover now!

Bryan Norton
10-12-2004, 10:40 PM
Emmett,

Daniel didn't exploit the rules. If you look at the examples of bikes allowed, I specifically included the Moose, just hoping someone would actually build one...and they did!

I know exactly what you mean about riding, preparation etc. So you do have to look at the riders skill as well as the bike.

I don't want to make things worse, that's for sure! I am just tossing around some ideas. I like the idea of bumping a couple of bikes down into the F5 class becuase it wasn't so heavily attended. Especially air cooled machines since as we all know its hard to keep em running well in the hotter months.


You guys done good, just like Anthony built, maintained, and raced a killer 60cc machine last year(and could ride it darn good too!) And Tyler and Will's consistency and skills on their 80 make it tough to challenge them.

Bryan Norton
10-12-2004, 10:40 PM
Emmett,

Daniel didn't exploit the rules. If you look at the examples of bikes allowed, I specifically included the Moose, just hoping someone would actually build one...and they did!

I know exactly what you mean about riding, preparation etc. So you do have to look at the riders skill as well as the bike.

I don't want to make things worse, that's for sure! I am just tossing around some ideas. I like the idea of bumping a couple of bikes down into the F5 class becuase it wasn't so heavily attended. Especially air cooled machines since as we all know its hard to keep em running well in the hotter months.


You guys done good, just like Anthony built, maintained, and raced a killer 60cc machine last year(and could ride it darn good too!) And Tyler and Will's consistency and skills on their 80 make it tough to challenge them.

waytooslow
10-12-2004, 11:09 PM
guess my point is ... that this is minis... one should not have to have a 6+ grand machine to be competitive wth machines that cost half that. If I wanted to have a 80.. I would get one... but the tard -to me= is more fun.

Sure the crf is slow and I am a slow rider... as most of the folks who have seen me ride know - but even with a fairly quick (smooth) rider (Greg S) it still was not even close. Guess I shuld have to dump a ton of cash to make my "sows ear" better??? - well it does work, and I am not complaining, but when it came up in earlier posts.. I was all about getting it a lower class.. 4 Stroke 2 valve stock frame - overweight beast


Nope not pandering either, just seeing what the rest of the club thinks... we got stomped by R. White's CRF150 - now there is a nicely prepared bike. Guess our engine will have to go out of town for a visit to the king as well.

waytooslow
10-12-2004, 11:09 PM
guess my point is ... that this is minis... one should not have to have a 6+ grand machine to be competitive wth machines that cost half that. If I wanted to have a 80.. I would get one... but the tard -to me= is more fun.

Sure the crf is slow and I am a slow rider... as most of the folks who have seen me ride know - but even with a fairly quick (smooth) rider (Greg S) it still was not even close. Guess I shuld have to dump a ton of cash to make my "sows ear" better??? - well it does work, and I am not complaining, but when it came up in earlier posts.. I was all about getting it a lower class.. 4 Stroke 2 valve stock frame - overweight beast


Nope not pandering either, just seeing what the rest of the club thinks... we got stomped by R. White's CRF150 - now there is a nicely prepared bike. Guess our engine will have to go out of town for a visit to the king as well.

cedestech
10-12-2004, 11:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
Emmett,

Daniel didn't exploit the rules. If you look at the examples of bikes allowed, I specifically included the Moose, just hoping someone would actually build one...and they did!

</div></div>Exploit isn't the word or way I ment.

He studied the class rules and available power plants and came up with a good combination.

I just don't want to see alot of boat rocking
after it was completely revamped last year.

And no scott, I'm not saying that you should dump a lot of money into a sows ear. I'm saying make sure the preformance "potential" is correct.

I just don't want to see a fast possible bike
down graded because it's not being taken full
advantage of then have someone come in seeing
the misclassification and take advantage of it.
The year after next people will be wanting the
bike bumped up a class. Thats all.

And how about more endurance time. How come all of my threads get freaking highjacked!

Damnit!

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

cedestech
10-12-2004, 11:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
Emmett,

Daniel didn't exploit the rules. If you look at the examples of bikes allowed, I specifically included the Moose, just hoping someone would actually build one...and they did!

</div></div>Exploit isn't the word or way I ment.

He studied the class rules and available power plants and came up with a good combination.

I just don't want to see alot of boat rocking
after it was completely revamped last year.

And no scott, I'm not saying that you should dump a lot of money into a sows ear. I'm saying make sure the preformance "potential" is correct.

I just don't want to see a fast possible bike
down graded because it's not being taken full
advantage of then have someone come in seeing
the misclassification and take advantage of it.
The year after next people will be wanting the
bike bumped up a class. Thats all.

And how about more endurance time. How come all of my threads get freaking highjacked!

Damnit!

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

troysturtz
10-14-2004, 09:31 PM
Did someone say that an 85cc motard (kx, cr, rm) in is't original frame currently fits in F5 or were they proposing it. I will build one for next year if it will be in F5.

Had to sell my RS-80 to have some cash on hand for my move to Houston. Gonna miss that bike. It ran real good with that cheater motor in it.


Just kidding Raymond

Troy

troysturtz
10-14-2004, 09:31 PM
Did someone say that an 85cc motard (kx, cr, rm) in is't original frame currently fits in F5 or were they proposing it. I will build one for next year if it will be in F5.

Had to sell my RS-80 to have some cash on hand for my move to Houston. Gonna miss that bike. It ran real good with that cheater motor in it.


Just kidding Raymond

Troy

Jiveturky
10-14-2004, 09:53 PM
There's another one, that brings my current count to at least 8 bikes currently only legal for f4 but not competative. That's not a bad count. As far as what is competative and what's not, the rider does make a huge difference but none of the bikes I have currently listed could place higher than 4th no in f5 no matter who was riding them. I could see where a rule could be put in place for the 2 stroke 80 motards, like stock exhaust and carb to keep it interesting for some modded 150's and 230's. I still think the gp 60's would fit well with the motard 80's.

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
10-14-2004, 09:53 PM
There's another one, that brings my current count to at least 8 bikes currently only legal for f4 but not competative. That's not a bad count. As far as what is competative and what's not, the rider does make a huge difference but none of the bikes I have currently listed could place higher than 4th no in f5 no matter who was riding them. I could see where a rule could be put in place for the 2 stroke 80 motards, like stock exhaust and carb to keep it interesting for some modded 150's and 230's. I still think the gp 60's would fit well with the motard 80's.

Later, Eric