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Ryan Rutkowski
12-11-2004, 07:38 PM
Why can there not be a better distibution of endurance hours between the mini's and big bikes? The big bikes get 39 endurance hours for 2005 and the mini's only get 14 endurance hours. I can understand why there isn't any mini endurance at TWS and vise versa for oakhill but what about the other tracks?

Ryan Rutkowski
12-11-2004, 07:38 PM
Why can there not be a better distibution of endurance hours between the mini's and big bikes? The big bikes get 39 endurance hours for 2005 and the mini's only get 14 endurance hours. I can understand why there isn't any mini endurance at TWS and vise versa for oakhill but what about the other tracks?

Buck Beasley
12-11-2004, 09:02 PM
While we are trying to be fair, why do big bikes pay 40.00 per hour vs. 20.00 for minis? Are there twice as many minis? We are using the same track, corner workers, and staff for ther same purpose why the cost difference? Inquiring minds want to know.................

Buck Beasley
12-11-2004, 09:02 PM
While we are trying to be fair, why do big bikes pay 40.00 per hour vs. 20.00 for minis? Are there twice as many minis? We are using the same track, corner workers, and staff for ther same purpose why the cost difference? Inquiring minds want to know.................

cedestech
12-11-2004, 09:51 PM
Way to go Ryan........

Actually the mini's received 20 hours of endurance time last year and the powers that juggle schedules are trying to get us a few more.
If they can ....Great! If not.... Great!

And as for the cost differential mini's
generally don't tax the racing infrastructure
as heavily as big bikes. Crashes are 1/2 or more less likely and when they do happen they are generally minor requiring no crash truck or ambulance usage. Generally everyone sits around drinking coffee all morning till we're done.

It's the same principle that the Toll Road Authority uses to charge your toll when you use beltway 8.
Car/light truck = $1, every other axle = $.50 more. Your still only one person in one vehicle but if you have more then 2 axles or a trailer you weigh more causing more wear on their toll
road.

OR.......

As I am sure many people reading this believe it's a great conspiracy devised by the evil bastards that be to bilk unsuspecting, hapless
big bike endurance teams out of even more money then they already have to pay to race.

(you can almost hear the maniacal laughter in the back ground......)

Good evening.

cedestech
12-11-2004, 09:51 PM
Way to go Ryan........

Actually the mini's received 20 hours of endurance time last year and the powers that juggle schedules are trying to get us a few more.
If they can ....Great! If not.... Great!

And as for the cost differential mini's
generally don't tax the racing infrastructure
as heavily as big bikes. Crashes are 1/2 or more less likely and when they do happen they are generally minor requiring no crash truck or ambulance usage. Generally everyone sits around drinking coffee all morning till we're done.

It's the same principle that the Toll Road Authority uses to charge your toll when you use beltway 8.
Car/light truck = $1, every other axle = $.50 more. Your still only one person in one vehicle but if you have more then 2 axles or a trailer you weigh more causing more wear on their toll
road.

OR.......

As I am sure many people reading this believe it's a great conspiracy devised by the evil bastards that be to bilk unsuspecting, hapless
big bike endurance teams out of even more money then they already have to pay to race.

(you can almost hear the maniacal laughter in the back ground......)

Good evening.

cedestech
12-12-2004, 08:04 AM
Where are ya'll getting 14 hours from. I didn't
realize the '05 schedule was posted on the
main page but it shows 20 hours on mini endurance
racing. The same as last year.

If mini riders want more endurance time you need to be more vocal. Find a board member, make nice to them, and every race weekend stop and tell them
how much you would appreciate 25 hours of endurance as opposed to 20 hours. Get more
friends to enter teams.

Once we average 50+ per event then you can start to make serious requests.

Be aware though that with increased use of club resources there is a probable increase in usage fee's.

cedestech
12-12-2004, 08:04 AM
Where are ya'll getting 14 hours from. I didn't
realize the '05 schedule was posted on the
main page but it shows 20 hours on mini endurance
racing. The same as last year.

If mini riders want more endurance time you need to be more vocal. Find a board member, make nice to them, and every race weekend stop and tell them
how much you would appreciate 25 hours of endurance as opposed to 20 hours. Get more
friends to enter teams.

Once we average 50+ per event then you can start to make serious requests.

Be aware though that with increased use of club resources there is a probable increase in usage fee's.

cedestech
12-12-2004, 08:15 AM
Steve Breen
Brooks Gremmels
Jess Johnson
Lindsey Leard
Norm McDonald
Steve McNamara
Chris Rankin

These are your '05 BOD members. Jess currently
races on a mini team. Lindsey and Chris do at times. Norm obviously is very involved with his
grandson Tyler in mini endurance.

That leaves the 2 Steves and Brooks. Some teams out there need to invite them to ride a quality bike gratis for the weekend. Maybe give them one for one of the 2 hour races. Then you'll have the entire BOD that has been or is on mini's.

All mini riders have to remember while mini's have been a part of the CMRA since the advent of the YSR's we still race at the leisure of the
club and the BOD. Until we "make" the club as
much money as big bikes we will always have to
accept and be thank full for what we get.

By the same token the big bike guys who despise mini's as a nuisance and a drain on the clubs resources have to remember this IS a club and we are due's paying members entitled to the same rights as you.

Is it February yet...........

cedestech
12-12-2004, 08:15 AM
Steve Breen
Brooks Gremmels
Jess Johnson
Lindsey Leard
Norm McDonald
Steve McNamara
Chris Rankin

These are your '05 BOD members. Jess currently
races on a mini team. Lindsey and Chris do at times. Norm obviously is very involved with his
grandson Tyler in mini endurance.

That leaves the 2 Steves and Brooks. Some teams out there need to invite them to ride a quality bike gratis for the weekend. Maybe give them one for one of the 2 hour races. Then you'll have the entire BOD that has been or is on mini's.

All mini riders have to remember while mini's have been a part of the CMRA since the advent of the YSR's we still race at the leisure of the
club and the BOD. Until we "make" the club as
much money as big bikes we will always have to
accept and be thank full for what we get.

By the same token the big bike guys who despise mini's as a nuisance and a drain on the clubs resources have to remember this IS a club and we are due's paying members entitled to the same rights as you.

Is it February yet...........

KELLY DAVIS
12-12-2004, 10:20 PM
Bring back the RRC!! Oh, sorry. Had a flashback.

KELLY DAVIS
12-12-2004, 10:20 PM
Bring back the RRC!! Oh, sorry. Had a flashback.

Steve Guynes
12-13-2004, 03:23 PM
I race both Big and Mini Endurance and love it. IMO they should pay the same amount. The staff, the track, corner workers get paid the same no matter whose on track. Endurance is paid by the hour. If the Mini's paid the same I bet their voice for more time might be heard a little louder.

Call me crazy but this could even lower what those poor sprint racers have to fork out to sprint for 15 minutes. I don't sprint anymore. I can't afford it.

Steve

Steve Guynes
12-13-2004, 03:23 PM
I race both Big and Mini Endurance and love it. IMO they should pay the same amount. The staff, the track, corner workers get paid the same no matter whose on track. Endurance is paid by the hour. If the Mini's paid the same I bet their voice for more time might be heard a little louder.

Call me crazy but this could even lower what those poor sprint racers have to fork out to sprint for 15 minutes. I don't sprint anymore. I can't afford it.

Steve

cedestech
12-13-2004, 04:13 PM
Hence the reason I don't sprint any more.

Big or little bike, endurance is where it's at.....

Or at least thats what the Mrs. says.......

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

cedestech
12-13-2004, 04:13 PM
Hence the reason I don't sprint any more.

Big or little bike, endurance is where it's at.....

Or at least thats what the Mrs. says.......

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Craig Montgomery
12-14-2004, 05:02 PM
I'll tell ya why mini's don't get as much time as the big bikes: Because they're minis!

ie:...smaller bikes...smaller riders...less speed...less money and less danger.

Craig Montgomery
12-14-2004, 05:02 PM
I'll tell ya why mini's don't get as much time as the big bikes: Because they're minis!

ie:...smaller bikes...smaller riders...less speed...less money and less danger.

cedestech
12-14-2004, 09:45 PM
"and less danger."

I have a spiraled tib/fib and been off work for
6 months that will blow that theory out of the water.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

cedestech
12-14-2004, 09:45 PM
"and less danger."

I have a spiraled tib/fib and been off work for
6 months that will blow that theory out of the water.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Steve Breen
12-15-2004, 06:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
"and less danger."

I have a spiraled tib/fib and been off work for
6 months that will blow that theory out of the water.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:

Crashes are 1/2 or more less likely and when they do happen they are generally minor requiring no crash truck or ambulance usage.</div></div>Hmm, well, which is it, Emmett?

Steve Breen
12-15-2004, 06:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
"and less danger."

I have a spiraled tib/fib and been off work for
6 months that will blow that theory out of the water.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:

Crashes are 1/2 or more less likely and when they do happen they are generally minor requiring no crash truck or ambulance usage.</div></div>Hmm, well, which is it, Emmett?

Keith Hertell
12-15-2004, 08:17 AM
Uh oh..... Drum roll please.

Keith Hertell
12-15-2004, 08:17 AM
Uh oh..... Drum roll please.

cedestech
12-15-2004, 08:41 AM
They are generally much more minor......


as with everything else I tend to be the exception to the rule.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

cedestech
12-15-2004, 08:41 AM
They are generally much more minor......


as with everything else I tend to be the exception to the rule.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

cedestech
12-15-2004, 08:44 AM
Besides you said danger, I just said minor.

It was a 10mph high side on a cart track.

I've seen and done worst in the pits!

Damd stupid bones......

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

cedestech
12-15-2004, 08:44 AM
Besides you said danger, I just said minor.

It was a 10mph high side on a cart track.

I've seen and done worst in the pits!

Damd stupid bones......

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

waytooslow
12-15-2004, 09:25 AM
OLD bones do that... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

waytooslow
12-15-2004, 09:25 AM
OLD bones do that... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

cedestech
12-15-2004, 10:06 AM
And BTW: anyone reading this thread and wondering.....

I personaly would be willing to pay more per endurance hour for mini racing if I was able to
recieve more endurance hours for the season.

I won't use any adjectives for fear of panty bunching.

cedestech
12-15-2004, 10:06 AM
And BTW: anyone reading this thread and wondering.....

I personaly would be willing to pay more per endurance hour for mini racing if I was able to
recieve more endurance hours for the season.

I won't use any adjectives for fear of panty bunching.

Craig Montgomery
12-15-2004, 11:30 AM
I think it's cool to have mini endurance racing (and a couple of sprints) in the CMRA. The thing is, mini racing should be considered a spring-board for up and coming kids. That's why adults look so funny on those little bikes, because they were designed for children. The problem we have is that the very nature of motorcycle racing is to win. Therefore many adults start racing minis so they can accomplish this and it takes the focus off the real reason we have these classes.

Craig Montgomery
12-15-2004, 11:30 AM
I think it's cool to have mini endurance racing (and a couple of sprints) in the CMRA. The thing is, mini racing should be considered a spring-board for up and coming kids. That's why adults look so funny on those little bikes, because they were designed for children. The problem we have is that the very nature of motorcycle racing is to win. Therefore many adults start racing minis so they can accomplish this and it takes the focus off the real reason we have these classes.

cedestech
12-15-2004, 12:14 PM
That's not necessarily so....

The CMRA started the mini classes in 89/90
(help me here Chuck).

Allot of "adults" enjoy riding them because the grin per dollar factor is very high. There have always been 85 - 90% of the riders/teams that are adults. There simply isn't enough children to fill the classes.

Unless that's is what you are saying.

You'd like to see a age limit put on mini's so the class participation shrinks and then can be
eliminated because of non-participation?

If it's because of "adults" looking silly riding them then which adults?

Chuck Ergle, Chris Reed, Eric Kancier, Sam McDonald, Jess Johnson, Daniel Browning, Alan Tan, Troy Green, Frank Shacklee, Mark Niemi, Phillip Fisher, Scott McDermott,Barb Prussiano, Scott Levine, Richard Desmond, Brad Thomas, Mark Tuttle, Keith Hertell, Harry Tomlinsom,Pete Martins, Danny Mosley, Bobby Palmer, John Casley,

All of these adults I consider fast and not silly looking.

Craig maybe you should try it. You just might like it.

I'm extending and open seat to you for a one hour stint on our scooter for any of the 3+ hour races
in '05.

Be fore warned though, while the speed isn't as fast, it is not any easier to make a fast mini lap time then it is to make a fast big bike lap time.

Ask any of the people listed above, they'll tell you.

Emmett Dibble
Team STD Racing, '04 F6 class champions, earned by beating a bunch of adults......and some kids.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

cedestech
12-15-2004, 12:14 PM
That's not necessarily so....

The CMRA started the mini classes in 89/90
(help me here Chuck).

Allot of "adults" enjoy riding them because the grin per dollar factor is very high. There have always been 85 - 90% of the riders/teams that are adults. There simply isn't enough children to fill the classes.

Unless that's is what you are saying.

You'd like to see a age limit put on mini's so the class participation shrinks and then can be
eliminated because of non-participation?

If it's because of "adults" looking silly riding them then which adults?

Chuck Ergle, Chris Reed, Eric Kancier, Sam McDonald, Jess Johnson, Daniel Browning, Alan Tan, Troy Green, Frank Shacklee, Mark Niemi, Phillip Fisher, Scott McDermott,Barb Prussiano, Scott Levine, Richard Desmond, Brad Thomas, Mark Tuttle, Keith Hertell, Harry Tomlinsom,Pete Martins, Danny Mosley, Bobby Palmer, John Casley,

All of these adults I consider fast and not silly looking.

Craig maybe you should try it. You just might like it.

I'm extending and open seat to you for a one hour stint on our scooter for any of the 3+ hour races
in '05.

Be fore warned though, while the speed isn't as fast, it is not any easier to make a fast mini lap time then it is to make a fast big bike lap time.

Ask any of the people listed above, they'll tell you.

Emmett Dibble
Team STD Racing, '04 F6 class champions, earned by beating a bunch of adults......and some kids.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Tom Thompson
12-15-2004, 12:31 PM
Wow! I been bad! I didn't know I wasn't supposed to enjoy the F4 thru F7 races. Someone should have told me early on. Oh well. It's has been fun and a learning experience for this old f**t. I haven't been "mean" to any of the kids, some of them are very fun to chase....There's lots of adult riders, too. If this is just for kids maybe a (just for kids) class needs to be started. My personal opinion is that the kids can ride with the adults in this class, beat them, and still benefit from the races. Track schools are a good place to for the up start kids to learn, too.

Tom Thompson
12-15-2004, 12:31 PM
Wow! I been bad! I didn't know I wasn't supposed to enjoy the F4 thru F7 races. Someone should have told me early on. Oh well. It's has been fun and a learning experience for this old f**t. I haven't been "mean" to any of the kids, some of them are very fun to chase....There's lots of adult riders, too. If this is just for kids maybe a (just for kids) class needs to be started. My personal opinion is that the kids can ride with the adults in this class, beat them, and still benefit from the races. Track schools are a good place to for the up start kids to learn, too.

Craig Montgomery
12-15-2004, 02:12 PM
Yes, anyone that is has a large frame that rides a very small motorcycle looks funny on it (no matter who, or how fast they are). Its simply a matter of proportion.


I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here or advocate an elimination of mini classes because of non participation. I've never suggested putting an age limit on the "mini bikes" and I'm sure the participants really enjoy racing them (as they should). I suppose the main reason that class got started was because Yamaha actually started producing 50cc replica sportbikes. I think the reason it's stuck around is partly because itís pretty inexpensive, partly because itís a way for kids to race, and partly because it gives some riders the opportunity to win. (we all race because we enjoy riding so that's implied here).

I've ridden minis before and I agree, itís not very easy to make a fast lap. However, it doesn't really have much in common with turning a fast lap on a big bike. Comparing racing a motorcycle with 50hp to 160 hp to racing a mini-bike is a little bit insulting IMO.

Big bike sprints (not endurance racing or mini-sprints) are the reason this club exists. They pay for the tracks, the ambulance, insurance etc. Big bike endurance racing is what pays the expense of having a track open the day before sprints (save Oak Hill). That's reason the club is more focused on big bikes than minis.

Craig Montgomery
12-15-2004, 02:12 PM
Yes, anyone that is has a large frame that rides a very small motorcycle looks funny on it (no matter who, or how fast they are). Its simply a matter of proportion.


I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here or advocate an elimination of mini classes because of non participation. I've never suggested putting an age limit on the "mini bikes" and I'm sure the participants really enjoy racing them (as they should). I suppose the main reason that class got started was because Yamaha actually started producing 50cc replica sportbikes. I think the reason it's stuck around is partly because itís pretty inexpensive, partly because itís a way for kids to race, and partly because it gives some riders the opportunity to win. (we all race because we enjoy riding so that's implied here).

I've ridden minis before and I agree, itís not very easy to make a fast lap. However, it doesn't really have much in common with turning a fast lap on a big bike. Comparing racing a motorcycle with 50hp to 160 hp to racing a mini-bike is a little bit insulting IMO.

Big bike sprints (not endurance racing or mini-sprints) are the reason this club exists. They pay for the tracks, the ambulance, insurance etc. Big bike endurance racing is what pays the expense of having a track open the day before sprints (save Oak Hill). That's reason the club is more focused on big bikes than minis.

Christopher Corder
12-15-2004, 02:25 PM
The skill that is takes to go fast on a big bike is different than the skill it takes to go fast on a mini. One is not better than the other, they are just different.

I suffer from the disease of motorcycling. I will ride/race anything on two wheels. I appreciate guys like Chuck Ergle, who can turn a fast lap on both, but Craig is right, bike bike racing cannot be compared to minis.

The level of excitement, danger, and speed varies even in just the mini class. Riding an 80cc gp bike is quite different than an XR50 motard.

This diversity is what makes this club great.

Christopher Corder
12-15-2004, 02:25 PM
The skill that is takes to go fast on a big bike is different than the skill it takes to go fast on a mini. One is not better than the other, they are just different.

I suffer from the disease of motorcycling. I will ride/race anything on two wheels. I appreciate guys like Chuck Ergle, who can turn a fast lap on both, but Craig is right, bike bike racing cannot be compared to minis.

The level of excitement, danger, and speed varies even in just the mini class. Riding an 80cc gp bike is quite different than an XR50 motard.

This diversity is what makes this club great.

Keith Hertell
12-15-2004, 04:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Craig Montgomery:
I've ridden minis before and I agree, itís not very easy to make a fast lap. However, it doesn't really have much in common with turning a fast lap on a big bike. Comparing racing a motorcycle with 50hp to 160 hp to racing a mini-bike is a little bit insulting IMO.
</div></div>I'd have to disagree, and I'm sure the Haydens and John Hopkins would too. Just think Craig, you could be REAL fast if you raced a few more mini races. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif :p

Keith Hertell
12-15-2004, 04:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Craig Montgomery:
I've ridden minis before and I agree, itís not very easy to make a fast lap. However, it doesn't really have much in common with turning a fast lap on a big bike. Comparing racing a motorcycle with 50hp to 160 hp to racing a mini-bike is a little bit insulting IMO.
</div></div>I'd have to disagree, and I'm sure the Haydens and John Hopkins would too. Just think Craig, you could be REAL fast if you raced a few more mini races. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif :p

Craig Montgomery
12-15-2004, 04:50 PM
Even though they're still alive, itís like John Hopkins and the Hayden brothers are mini-martyrs because they rode minis when they were kids. What exactly would they disagree with me about?

I'd rather try to be REAL fast on big bike but thanks anyway.

Craig Montgomery
12-15-2004, 04:50 PM
Even though they're still alive, itís like John Hopkins and the Hayden brothers are mini-martyrs because they rode minis when they were kids. What exactly would they disagree with me about?

I'd rather try to be REAL fast on big bike but thanks anyway.

Bryan Norton
12-15-2004, 05:13 PM
Craig,

I'll put up $50 you can't beat some of the kids out there. Tyler, Will, Dustin D, and a few others.

Its a hell of a lot more competitive than you think.

Some classes are not, some bikes are definately not ready for prime time but bike for bike, I would say there is also lack of competition level in big bike endurance. (Not at the top level, but from 6th place down.) I know because I've been there, I've finished in top 3 in class in endurance(for only a race, not the year) I'm not knocking ANY of the top teams in Endurance, just saying it's easy to look out there and pick on people. It's another to get out there week after week and run

I will definately agree we look funny. Especially my fat butt on the TZ80.

Participation at some events is more than WERA's national endurance series. No cry for lack of participation.

I would also agree 'fast' is different in minis and big bikes. It's one of the reasons I went to racing the minis...an 80 still has plenty of pucker factor though.

Just because you can go fast in one doesn't mean you can go fast in the other; this is true both ways. HOWEVER, I will say that if you use minis to push yourself and the bike to it's limit, it will help tremendously in big bike.

For most riders (again, not the 'top tier' but most) Big bike riders don't realize what they can really do with the bike, and also overuse horsepower. Many have never pushed a bike to it's extremes (and if they tried at this point could hurt themselves pretty bad). Pushing a mini to those extremes is more comfortable due to lower speeds.
It's why XR100 dirt tracking is so popular for training.

Where was the point? damn I need some Tequila

Bryan Norton
12-15-2004, 05:13 PM
Craig,

I'll put up $50 you can't beat some of the kids out there. Tyler, Will, Dustin D, and a few others.

Its a hell of a lot more competitive than you think.

Some classes are not, some bikes are definately not ready for prime time but bike for bike, I would say there is also lack of competition level in big bike endurance. (Not at the top level, but from 6th place down.) I know because I've been there, I've finished in top 3 in class in endurance(for only a race, not the year) I'm not knocking ANY of the top teams in Endurance, just saying it's easy to look out there and pick on people. It's another to get out there week after week and run

I will definately agree we look funny. Especially my fat butt on the TZ80.

Participation at some events is more than WERA's national endurance series. No cry for lack of participation.

I would also agree 'fast' is different in minis and big bikes. It's one of the reasons I went to racing the minis...an 80 still has plenty of pucker factor though.

Just because you can go fast in one doesn't mean you can go fast in the other; this is true both ways. HOWEVER, I will say that if you use minis to push yourself and the bike to it's limit, it will help tremendously in big bike.

For most riders (again, not the 'top tier' but most) Big bike riders don't realize what they can really do with the bike, and also overuse horsepower. Many have never pushed a bike to it's extremes (and if they tried at this point could hurt themselves pretty bad). Pushing a mini to those extremes is more comfortable due to lower speeds.
It's why XR100 dirt tracking is so popular for training.

Where was the point? damn I need some Tequila

Bryan Norton
12-15-2004, 05:36 PM
And for what it's worth - Mini's get PLENTY of track time. When you factor in the entry fee, its more than fair to minis.

Mini endurance could be raised, but the idea is twofold:
To offer up and coming riders a true road race series with many bikes and competition levels. To also allow Father-Son teams so they can run at the same time
And, to offer a low cost option to those of us who either can no longer throw money up in the air, or those that have tired of the meat grinder classes.

Bryan Norton
12-15-2004, 05:36 PM
And for what it's worth - Mini's get PLENTY of track time. When you factor in the entry fee, its more than fair to minis.

Mini endurance could be raised, but the idea is twofold:
To offer up and coming riders a true road race series with many bikes and competition levels. To also allow Father-Son teams so they can run at the same time
And, to offer a low cost option to those of us who either can no longer throw money up in the air, or those that have tired of the meat grinder classes.

Christopher Corder
12-15-2004, 06:03 PM
Bryan, try Patron Silver with some fresh oranges. Very refreshing and it will make your head feel so good. :p

Christopher Corder
12-15-2004, 06:03 PM
Bryan, try Patron Silver with some fresh oranges. Very refreshing and it will make your head feel so good. :p

Keith Hertell
12-15-2004, 06:33 PM
Agree w/ having much in common w/ the little bikes. Pusshing the bike is pushing the bike yadda yadda yadda

Keith Hertell
12-15-2004, 06:33 PM
Agree w/ having much in common w/ the little bikes. Pusshing the bike is pushing the bike yadda yadda yadda

cedestech
12-15-2004, 09:35 PM
You ever have one of those moments before a keyboard that you are thinking maybe you should just leave well enough alone? Yeah, me neither.

So let me preface this with "Craig, I know you are a good person and a very gifted rider".

With this statement made twice now:

"very nature of motorcycle racing is to win. Therefore many adults start racing minis so they can accomplish this"

"and partly because it gives some riders the opportunity to win"

What you are saying is that Team K&N, Team Bling,
STD Racing, and Team Lean all race mini's just so they can win?

None of them tuned bikes, rode hard and smart all year to turn more laps in the given time frame of the races they entered? They all did it just to
beat up kids because they can? They all did it
because that is the only way they can win?

That's pretty harsh.

So what your saying is if a group of "adults" only want to spend $3-5000 dollars a year endurance racing mini's instead of $10000 plus racing big bikes for a season they suck or are you saying that they suck just because they race
mini's and not "real" bikes?

Which is it?

cedestech
12-15-2004, 09:35 PM
You ever have one of those moments before a keyboard that you are thinking maybe you should just leave well enough alone? Yeah, me neither.

So let me preface this with "Craig, I know you are a good person and a very gifted rider".

With this statement made twice now:

"very nature of motorcycle racing is to win. Therefore many adults start racing minis so they can accomplish this"

"and partly because it gives some riders the opportunity to win"

What you are saying is that Team K&N, Team Bling,
STD Racing, and Team Lean all race mini's just so they can win?

None of them tuned bikes, rode hard and smart all year to turn more laps in the given time frame of the races they entered? They all did it just to
beat up kids because they can? They all did it
because that is the only way they can win?

That's pretty harsh.

So what your saying is if a group of "adults" only want to spend $3-5000 dollars a year endurance racing mini's instead of $10000 plus racing big bikes for a season they suck or are you saying that they suck just because they race
mini's and not "real" bikes?

Which is it?

cedestech
12-15-2004, 09:46 PM
And another thing...........

So there are roughly 36 mini teams I counted that entered 3 or more of the 6 rounds. Let's say
only the "kids" that are supposed to race mini's
raced them. That would mean there are now guys trying to field 30ish new big bike teams.

I count roughly 41 big bike teams that made 3 or more rounds.

So you are going to now add 30 bikes to that and
make it 70+ teams that are going to have to big bike endurance race.

Thats over track density even at TWS?

Craig, what are you going to do with those extra
teams you just took out of the mini class?

Are teams going to have to pull straws to race?
Spin a wheel? Random lotto? How about we grandfather existing big bike teams so a new team can only race if a preexisting team disolves?

We'll just tell the guys who can't race "sorry,
there is no room at the inn. Come back next year and maybe you can race, maybe not..."

Hey....now with that over abundance of riders and
lack of rider room WERA could come back into the
region and start hosting races again?

Is that what you are saying Craig?

cedestech
12-15-2004, 09:46 PM
And another thing...........

So there are roughly 36 mini teams I counted that entered 3 or more of the 6 rounds. Let's say
only the "kids" that are supposed to race mini's
raced them. That would mean there are now guys trying to field 30ish new big bike teams.

I count roughly 41 big bike teams that made 3 or more rounds.

So you are going to now add 30 bikes to that and
make it 70+ teams that are going to have to big bike endurance race.

Thats over track density even at TWS?

Craig, what are you going to do with those extra
teams you just took out of the mini class?

Are teams going to have to pull straws to race?
Spin a wheel? Random lotto? How about we grandfather existing big bike teams so a new team can only race if a preexisting team disolves?

We'll just tell the guys who can't race "sorry,
there is no room at the inn. Come back next year and maybe you can race, maybe not..."

Hey....now with that over abundance of riders and
lack of rider room WERA could come back into the
region and start hosting races again?

Is that what you are saying Craig?

cedestech
12-15-2004, 09:53 PM
Also.............

Since I steal candy from babies.........

Anyone who wants my Championship Trophy from this
year let me know. I'll Fed-Ex it to you tommorrow
just in time for Christmas.

Who ever wants any trophy I steal next year speak
up and I'll make sure you get those also.

I give my trophies back to the TMGP to be recycled I suppose I'll start doing it with
the CMRA also if I can't find any taker.

Wouldn't want to profit from the oppression of
the wee lads and lasses on the track.

cedestech
12-15-2004, 09:53 PM
Also.............

Since I steal candy from babies.........

Anyone who wants my Championship Trophy from this
year let me know. I'll Fed-Ex it to you tommorrow
just in time for Christmas.

Who ever wants any trophy I steal next year speak
up and I'll make sure you get those also.

I give my trophies back to the TMGP to be recycled I suppose I'll start doing it with
the CMRA also if I can't find any taker.

Wouldn't want to profit from the oppression of
the wee lads and lasses on the track.

TX_03_RC51
12-15-2004, 10:30 PM
and the gloves come off...

TX_03_RC51
12-15-2004, 10:30 PM
and the gloves come off...

Craig Montgomery
12-16-2004, 09:24 AM
Yo Bryan,

Maybe not all of the mini classes are easy to win and I'm also pretty sure Tyler, Will, and Dustin would beat me on one (pretty soon, they'll probably beat me on a big bike too...those are some fast kids). My frame doesn't fit on one of those bikes anyway. I see some of your points (agree with some, not with others) but XR100 dirt-tracking is a great way to learn some slide skills.

Emmett,

My comment included mini-sprints as well. Also, please see the words "many" and "partly". Those aren't all encompassing terms. In addition, I don't think all of the teams you mentioned were adults only. I'm sure that all the mini teams worked and rode hard all year etc so good on em.

I kept my comments pretty short and to the point. I don't know the frame of mind of every mini rider out there so of course my views don't apply to everyone. What is pretty harsh are the words you're trying to put in my mouth. I've never advocated getting rid of the mini endurance and that whole 20 line post of yours looks like a way to get more mini-riders stirred up. Please remember that mini racing isn't the reason the CMRA exists and it doesn't pay the bills. That's why some of the tracks we race are too big for minis (TWS is sorta boring on a mini) and they have a whole other series for them.

Craig Montgomery
12-16-2004, 09:24 AM
Yo Bryan,

Maybe not all of the mini classes are easy to win and I'm also pretty sure Tyler, Will, and Dustin would beat me on one (pretty soon, they'll probably beat me on a big bike too...those are some fast kids). My frame doesn't fit on one of those bikes anyway. I see some of your points (agree with some, not with others) but XR100 dirt-tracking is a great way to learn some slide skills.

Emmett,

My comment included mini-sprints as well. Also, please see the words "many" and "partly". Those aren't all encompassing terms. In addition, I don't think all of the teams you mentioned were adults only. I'm sure that all the mini teams worked and rode hard all year etc so good on em.

I kept my comments pretty short and to the point. I don't know the frame of mind of every mini rider out there so of course my views don't apply to everyone. What is pretty harsh are the words you're trying to put in my mouth. I've never advocated getting rid of the mini endurance and that whole 20 line post of yours looks like a way to get more mini-riders stirred up. Please remember that mini racing isn't the reason the CMRA exists and it doesn't pay the bills. That's why some of the tracks we race are too big for minis (TWS is sorta boring on a mini) and they have a whole other series for them.

cedestech
12-16-2004, 10:07 AM
I'm going to add one more retort then pull the
loops....

Big bike guys are always pointing to the TMGP as a alternative series that the CMRA's mini's should be shuffled off to.

Can't do it.

The TMGP couldn't handle the influx the same as the CMRA big bike endurance series couldn't handle the influx. Both are already at 80+ % capacity.

Also, riding a mini with the TMGP is not like riding a mini in the CMRA. It is MUCH tighter and
more aggressive. Anyone who rides both will tell anyone starting out to learn to ride with the
CMRA then go to the TMGP to learn to race.

Think the 600 novice class races at Oakhill and you'll get the picture.

Would everyone be happier if mini's paid the same
amount as big bikes?

What would the arguments be then?

Maybe since they don't go through a set of
tires every weekend they need to pay a special tire non-usage fee to make up the difference?

They don't burn as much fuel so lets charge them a fuel surcharge also?

Lets just make them as expensive as big bikes in every way possible would that make all the big bike guys happy?

I am seriously asking for some answers here.

What in the hell is the malfunction? Is it that everyone who races mini's is having a blast and
everyone racing big bikes isn't?

I've heard these same time/price complaints from
big bike guys for the past forever but never what
it would take to make ya'll happy and why?

This isn't just aimed at you Craig but all the big bike guys who are reading this going
"hell ya!".

What in the F&^ck do ya'll want?

Just say it.

(Emmett is now reaching above his head and pulling the firing loops for the ejection seat,
explosive bolts have detonated, rocket fires , he has cleared the canopy and air frame)

cedestech
12-16-2004, 10:07 AM
I'm going to add one more retort then pull the
loops....

Big bike guys are always pointing to the TMGP as a alternative series that the CMRA's mini's should be shuffled off to.

Can't do it.

The TMGP couldn't handle the influx the same as the CMRA big bike endurance series couldn't handle the influx. Both are already at 80+ % capacity.

Also, riding a mini with the TMGP is not like riding a mini in the CMRA. It is MUCH tighter and
more aggressive. Anyone who rides both will tell anyone starting out to learn to ride with the
CMRA then go to the TMGP to learn to race.

Think the 600 novice class races at Oakhill and you'll get the picture.

Would everyone be happier if mini's paid the same
amount as big bikes?

What would the arguments be then?

Maybe since they don't go through a set of
tires every weekend they need to pay a special tire non-usage fee to make up the difference?

They don't burn as much fuel so lets charge them a fuel surcharge also?

Lets just make them as expensive as big bikes in every way possible would that make all the big bike guys happy?

I am seriously asking for some answers here.

What in the hell is the malfunction? Is it that everyone who races mini's is having a blast and
everyone racing big bikes isn't?

I've heard these same time/price complaints from
big bike guys for the past forever but never what
it would take to make ya'll happy and why?

This isn't just aimed at you Craig but all the big bike guys who are reading this going
"hell ya!".

What in the F&^ck do ya'll want?

Just say it.

(Emmett is now reaching above his head and pulling the firing loops for the ejection seat,
explosive bolts have detonated, rocket fires , he has cleared the canopy and air frame)

Christopher Corder
12-16-2004, 11:29 AM
I think, like many things on the board, that this is being blown out of proportion.

The TMGP and CMRA are two different beasts. TMGP will never be a replacement for CMRA mini. The TMGP has no organization, marginal facilities, and can barely handle the number of racers it currently has racing.

Christopher Corder
12-16-2004, 11:29 AM
I think, like many things on the board, that this is being blown out of proportion.

The TMGP and CMRA are two different beasts. TMGP will never be a replacement for CMRA mini. The TMGP has no organization, marginal facilities, and can barely handle the number of racers it currently has racing.

Bryan Norton
12-16-2004, 12:35 PM
Yeah the problem is that we aren't racing over the winter, and it's driving us nuts.

FWIW, you can take all of these arguments in the extreme. Dollar for dollar, track time for track time, Minis are not a money generator for CMRA.

But, niether is expert class.

Figure how much larger the novice class is.
Figure how much in Cash and contingency are handed out in expert classes.

At last race there were 4 Expert only sprint classes with 4 riders or less. (not much competition there, eh. Craig you were in two of those classes, which only had 3 finishers. gauranteed trophies for ya!)

To compare, the SMALLEST mini sprint field had 6 competitors.

So I say lets just eliminate EXPERT classes altogether!

The CMRA will make more cash (the heavily participated novice only classes can be expanded to more races) and it is more 'fair' to the novices who pump much more cash into the CMRA than the experts.

The rule could ill be that once you move to expert, you must leave the CMRA and compete in a national series.

That way, riders who should be running national series, can not cherry pick the regional series.


Obviously I am kidding, and I hope the sarcasm is understood, but in reality - Novice riders are the lifeblood of the CMRA. Almost no contingency or purses (whether from sponsors or from the CMRA as in the past) mean that cash that comes in goes directly into the CMRA coffers rather than be distributed to the smaller rider base.

(BTW I'm drinking some kick butt stuff I bought when I visited Mexico last week.)

Bryan Norton
12-16-2004, 12:35 PM
Yeah the problem is that we aren't racing over the winter, and it's driving us nuts.

FWIW, you can take all of these arguments in the extreme. Dollar for dollar, track time for track time, Minis are not a money generator for CMRA.

But, niether is expert class.

Figure how much larger the novice class is.
Figure how much in Cash and contingency are handed out in expert classes.

At last race there were 4 Expert only sprint classes with 4 riders or less. (not much competition there, eh. Craig you were in two of those classes, which only had 3 finishers. gauranteed trophies for ya!)

To compare, the SMALLEST mini sprint field had 6 competitors.

So I say lets just eliminate EXPERT classes altogether!

The CMRA will make more cash (the heavily participated novice only classes can be expanded to more races) and it is more 'fair' to the novices who pump much more cash into the CMRA than the experts.

The rule could ill be that once you move to expert, you must leave the CMRA and compete in a national series.

That way, riders who should be running national series, can not cherry pick the regional series.


Obviously I am kidding, and I hope the sarcasm is understood, but in reality - Novice riders are the lifeblood of the CMRA. Almost no contingency or purses (whether from sponsors or from the CMRA as in the past) mean that cash that comes in goes directly into the CMRA coffers rather than be distributed to the smaller rider base.

(BTW I'm drinking some kick butt stuff I bought when I visited Mexico last week.)

Keith Hertell
12-16-2004, 01:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
(BTW I'm drinking some kick butt stuff I bought when I visited Mexico last week.) </div></div>You're drinking *** ?!?!?! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Keith Hertell
12-16-2004, 01:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
(BTW I'm drinking some kick butt stuff I bought when I visited Mexico last week.) </div></div>You're drinking *** ?!?!?! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Craig Montgomery
12-16-2004, 02:19 PM
I think you make a great point Bryan. We need to concentrate more on retaining experts in the club. I'm glad the club is realizing this and I've heard some changes are coming next year.

As far as D Superstock (Suzuki Contingency paying class) and C Superbike (Yam, Kaw, Honda paying classes) it was pretty sad to see the grids so light at the end of the year. As far as me running them for a trophy...well they don't give trophies in the expert big bike classes! Ummmyeah...thanks.

Again, I'm not advocating getting rid of minis. However, I think the big bike expert sprints (while not bringing in the money that the AM sprints do) are a little more vital to the club than miniature motorcycle racing. The majority of the clubs donít even have a mini program (much less endurance and sprints) so I figure you guys have it pretty good.

Craig Montgomery
12-16-2004, 02:19 PM
I think you make a great point Bryan. We need to concentrate more on retaining experts in the club. I'm glad the club is realizing this and I've heard some changes are coming next year.

As far as D Superstock (Suzuki Contingency paying class) and C Superbike (Yam, Kaw, Honda paying classes) it was pretty sad to see the grids so light at the end of the year. As far as me running them for a trophy...well they don't give trophies in the expert big bike classes! Ummmyeah...thanks.

Again, I'm not advocating getting rid of minis. However, I think the big bike expert sprints (while not bringing in the money that the AM sprints do) are a little more vital to the club than miniature motorcycle racing. The majority of the clubs donít even have a mini program (much less endurance and sprints) so I figure you guys have it pretty good.

Christopher Corder
12-16-2004, 02:24 PM
Again, this diversity is what makes the CMRA great. The CMRA provides a place for just about anybody to race just about anything. I like that.

Christopher Corder
12-16-2004, 02:24 PM
Again, this diversity is what makes the CMRA great. The CMRA provides a place for just about anybody to race just about anything. I like that.

Jiveturky
12-16-2004, 10:53 PM
I just want to clarify that a talented rider can ride anything with two wheels fast. A mini or a big bike, a good rider will ride up front. By the way my little boy Ethan (age 8) turned faster lap times at OHR on his xr 50/88 than 3 big bike endurance riders. Now that is SAD!!!!! I would also like to point out that several people have turned faster lap times on a 25 hp machine than some of the expert field can turn on 100 plus hp. I like big bikes as much as the next guy, but the minis have their place. Our club would not be the same without them.

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
12-16-2004, 10:53 PM
I just want to clarify that a talented rider can ride anything with two wheels fast. A mini or a big bike, a good rider will ride up front. By the way my little boy Ethan (age 8) turned faster lap times at OHR on his xr 50/88 than 3 big bike endurance riders. Now that is SAD!!!!! I would also like to point out that several people have turned faster lap times on a 25 hp machine than some of the expert field can turn on 100 plus hp. I like big bikes as much as the next guy, but the minis have their place. Our club would not be the same without them.

Later, Eric

David Branyon
12-18-2004, 03:56 PM
Holy smokes! These mini guys seem to have a bit of a chip that Craig knocked off.

Emmett (as you coast down in that ejection seat): I think the minis are not "paying their fair share" but who cares. As pointed out, no one really pays their fair share. Some pay too much, some too little, it's all good. If the decision is that we want to encourage mini racing and/or provide a cheaper place for someone to start and/or continue racing, then fine. Yeah, one could argue that even at equivalent entry fees, mini guys are saving $$ on fuel and tires (big $$ on tires, I think) and maybe that should be enough. I don't think there is a cost savings (to the club) with running the minis. Ambulance and crash truck driver are already paid for and there, whether anyone crashes or not. But, I'm also okay with giving the minis a little price break if that is what our BOD decides to continue. (Good thing we elected all those smart folks to figure out this kind of stuff, huh?!)

Someone better think of a winter activity to keep our minds busy before we all go nuts from withdrawal! And I don't even have a ride for next year right now! Yikes!

David Branyon
12-18-2004, 03:56 PM
Holy smokes! These mini guys seem to have a bit of a chip that Craig knocked off.

Emmett (as you coast down in that ejection seat): I think the minis are not "paying their fair share" but who cares. As pointed out, no one really pays their fair share. Some pay too much, some too little, it's all good. If the decision is that we want to encourage mini racing and/or provide a cheaper place for someone to start and/or continue racing, then fine. Yeah, one could argue that even at equivalent entry fees, mini guys are saving $$ on fuel and tires (big $$ on tires, I think) and maybe that should be enough. I don't think there is a cost savings (to the club) with running the minis. Ambulance and crash truck driver are already paid for and there, whether anyone crashes or not. But, I'm also okay with giving the minis a little price break if that is what our BOD decides to continue. (Good thing we elected all those smart folks to figure out this kind of stuff, huh?!)

Someone better think of a winter activity to keep our minds busy before we all go nuts from withdrawal! And I don't even have a ride for next year right now! Yikes!

David Branyon
12-18-2004, 04:01 PM
WARNING: THREAD HIGHJACK in process

I want to ask a question re: one of the comments here. That being (if I understood) that TMGP is more competitive and aggressive. I have previously understood the opposite. My son and I are looking at the possibility of moving him from Jr. Motard to some mini racing and am asking for recommendations from those who know. Do I do better to start him in TMGP or CMRA mini-racing? If CMRA, endurance or sprints? I think endurance is better for the track time but am worried about him being out there on a stock YSR vs. RS80s and such passing aggressively. Sprints are run more segregated right?

I'd love to do the father-son endurance team, but is it realistic? He's just learning and I don't know if I can stand droning around TWS on a stock YSR. Afraid he'll be intimidated by anything more powerful.

Let me know what y'all think.

David Branyon
12-18-2004, 04:01 PM
WARNING: THREAD HIGHJACK in process

I want to ask a question re: one of the comments here. That being (if I understood) that TMGP is more competitive and aggressive. I have previously understood the opposite. My son and I are looking at the possibility of moving him from Jr. Motard to some mini racing and am asking for recommendations from those who know. Do I do better to start him in TMGP or CMRA mini-racing? If CMRA, endurance or sprints? I think endurance is better for the track time but am worried about him being out there on a stock YSR vs. RS80s and such passing aggressively. Sprints are run more segregated right?

I'd love to do the father-son endurance team, but is it realistic? He's just learning and I don't know if I can stand droning around TWS on a stock YSR. Afraid he'll be intimidated by anything more powerful.

Let me know what y'all think.

hasbury81
12-18-2004, 05:47 PM
David there isn't any mini endurance at TWS. So you wouldn't have to worry about that. As far as the aggressive passing in the mini endurance, generally that isn't an issue. Most of the faster bikes will get around usually with more than enough room. Generally as long as your son holds his line, the faster bikes will get by before he even realizes they are there.
I am not sure how others do it, but I leave a little extra space when passing the younger riders just so I don't spook them. At the speed difference it takes no more time to pass clean. Keep his yellow shirt on him till he's comfortable. Most of the mini riders won't intentionally spook him. Usually the close passes happens with bikes within the same classes.

As far as sprints it would all depend on whether or not he would be getting lapped by the lead Formula 5 bikes. Since it is a sprint race and a money paying class, I would think the closer passes would happen in this case. I know the last bikes in the Formula 7 class usually get lapped by at least the lead bikes in the Formula 5 class.

I personally think he would be fine in either case, but you could always let him try both and see what he likes.

TMGP does seem to be more aggressive. The tracks are much tighter and much narrower. I did more rubbing my first TMGP race than I had even done in the CMRA. Don't forget that TMGP does sprints also and they are much more segregated and cheaper also.

hasbury81
12-18-2004, 05:47 PM
David there isn't any mini endurance at TWS. So you wouldn't have to worry about that. As far as the aggressive passing in the mini endurance, generally that isn't an issue. Most of the faster bikes will get around usually with more than enough room. Generally as long as your son holds his line, the faster bikes will get by before he even realizes they are there.
I am not sure how others do it, but I leave a little extra space when passing the younger riders just so I don't spook them. At the speed difference it takes no more time to pass clean. Keep his yellow shirt on him till he's comfortable. Most of the mini riders won't intentionally spook him. Usually the close passes happens with bikes within the same classes.

As far as sprints it would all depend on whether or not he would be getting lapped by the lead Formula 5 bikes. Since it is a sprint race and a money paying class, I would think the closer passes would happen in this case. I know the last bikes in the Formula 7 class usually get lapped by at least the lead bikes in the Formula 5 class.

I personally think he would be fine in either case, but you could always let him try both and see what he likes.

TMGP does seem to be more aggressive. The tracks are much tighter and much narrower. I did more rubbing my first TMGP race than I had even done in the CMRA. Don't forget that TMGP does sprints also and they are much more segregated and cheaper also.

Bryan Norton
12-19-2004, 10:26 AM
David, tires are not much cheaper than big bike.

My MZ uses two fronts, but same as big bike and same prices.

My TZ uses standard GP125 rubber, same price...

The advantage is a lower rung team can stretch tire usage longer. Top tier teams change em every weekend just like big bikes.

OF course, on a 'smaller' mini like YSR the tires are indeed cheaper.


As far as TMGP vs CMRA - TMGP is wilder for grownups. My first trip to KAty I was used as a berm by several well known big bike experts. They are much easier on the kids tho! The tracks are much tighter and there is less room for a faster rider to get around a slower one.

The biggest advantage to TMGP is ridiculously cheap prices. They have a scale where your 4th 5th etc entries are extremely low. In the old days, $55 would get you like 5 races. License is also cheap.

I would recommend CMRA for just starting, as the tracks are wide, and while the 80's will buzz by you, eveyone plays safe. You can also head to Oak Hill on a non race weekend and practice. But, I would also say get over to TMGP as well. The additional track time, different tracks, and different atmosphere can help reduce the learning curve.

Bryan Norton
12-19-2004, 10:26 AM
David, tires are not much cheaper than big bike.

My MZ uses two fronts, but same as big bike and same prices.

My TZ uses standard GP125 rubber, same price...

The advantage is a lower rung team can stretch tire usage longer. Top tier teams change em every weekend just like big bikes.

OF course, on a 'smaller' mini like YSR the tires are indeed cheaper.


As far as TMGP vs CMRA - TMGP is wilder for grownups. My first trip to KAty I was used as a berm by several well known big bike experts. They are much easier on the kids tho! The tracks are much tighter and there is less room for a faster rider to get around a slower one.

The biggest advantage to TMGP is ridiculously cheap prices. They have a scale where your 4th 5th etc entries are extremely low. In the old days, $55 would get you like 5 races. License is also cheap.

I would recommend CMRA for just starting, as the tracks are wide, and while the 80's will buzz by you, eveyone plays safe. You can also head to Oak Hill on a non race weekend and practice. But, I would also say get over to TMGP as well. The additional track time, different tracks, and different atmosphere can help reduce the learning curve.

Eric Kancir
12-20-2004, 08:04 AM
Did you know that every American in the MotoGP has raced Minis?

Eric Kancir
12-20-2004, 08:04 AM
Did you know that every American in the MotoGP has raced Minis?

TFox
12-20-2004, 05:01 PM
David,
The passing is usually more aggressive over in TMGP like Heather noted, and the space / time before the next apex is smaller so it's not only tight left/right but also fore/aft. There are more old farts over there who won't mind "rubbing paint" and such. There's less chaos at the CMRA venues. The day's worth of racing at TMGP will last longer since the little guy's races will be spread out over more hours, so there's more time for resting, reviewing, and repairing.

TFox
12-20-2004, 05:01 PM
David,
The passing is usually more aggressive over in TMGP like Heather noted, and the space / time before the next apex is smaller so it's not only tight left/right but also fore/aft. There are more old farts over there who won't mind "rubbing paint" and such. There's less chaos at the CMRA venues. The day's worth of racing at TMGP will last longer since the little guy's races will be spread out over more hours, so there's more time for resting, reviewing, and repairing.

tinman
12-27-2004, 10:36 PM
david, cmra minis are a good start. He will learn more mini skills in tmgp. Unorganized? I've always had fun at tmgp. lots of people helping people there. They have seperate novice and expert classes and no buzz by 80's. BUT...it is good to learn not to lose it when you do get buzzed. tmgp is tight and he will learn to corner and pass well there. ok, soap box please, I race mini's cause they are a fricken blast. I got my start racing them. Got my dumb *** off the street realizing the danger i was putting myself and others in out there. And yes of course the price makes a huge difference also. I would love to race big bike endurance but hell, half a seasons tires in big bikes is my whole race allotment for the year. So guess I will continue looking funny on a mini, I'll make sure and wear a clear visor this year so everyone can see my grin. Craig, I envy you and everyone who can run big bikes and all the kick *** tracks you get to go to. But you are welcome to come run an endurance race with us. I'll save ya a seat and a gatorade!! come on race season.

tinman
12-27-2004, 10:36 PM
david, cmra minis are a good start. He will learn more mini skills in tmgp. Unorganized? I've always had fun at tmgp. lots of people helping people there. They have seperate novice and expert classes and no buzz by 80's. BUT...it is good to learn not to lose it when you do get buzzed. tmgp is tight and he will learn to corner and pass well there. ok, soap box please, I race mini's cause they are a fricken blast. I got my start racing them. Got my dumb *** off the street realizing the danger i was putting myself and others in out there. And yes of course the price makes a huge difference also. I would love to race big bike endurance but hell, half a seasons tires in big bikes is my whole race allotment for the year. So guess I will continue looking funny on a mini, I'll make sure and wear a clear visor this year so everyone can see my grin. Craig, I envy you and everyone who can run big bikes and all the kick *** tracks you get to go to. But you are welcome to come run an endurance race with us. I'll save ya a seat and a gatorade!! come on race season.

David Branyon
01-08-2005, 09:21 PM
Thanks for all the input everyone. Sounds like CMRA may actually be the easier going venue for him to start in. And I didn't realize the sprints were that combined; I'd hate for him to be between 1st and 2nd place of a purse-paying race on the last lap (being lapped).

Now I've just gotta find a big pile-o-cash for a bike for he and me or resurrect the FZR400 in the garage.

Bryan,
re: below, I was thinking of more traditional minis, not GP frames and larger that fit into mini classes. I've heard the YSR guys can nearly get a season out of a set of tires. My endurance team once spent $600 on tires for a 5 hr race at MSR! On an SV!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
David, tires are not much cheaper than big bike.

My MZ uses two fronts, but same as big bike and same prices.

My TZ uses standard GP125 rubber, same price...
</div></div>

David Branyon
01-08-2005, 09:21 PM
Thanks for all the input everyone. Sounds like CMRA may actually be the easier going venue for him to start in. And I didn't realize the sprints were that combined; I'd hate for him to be between 1st and 2nd place of a purse-paying race on the last lap (being lapped).

Now I've just gotta find a big pile-o-cash for a bike for he and me or resurrect the FZR400 in the garage.

Bryan,
re: below, I was thinking of more traditional minis, not GP frames and larger that fit into mini classes. I've heard the YSR guys can nearly get a season out of a set of tires. My endurance team once spent $600 on tires for a 5 hr race at MSR! On an SV!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
David, tires are not much cheaper than big bike.

My MZ uses two fronts, but same as big bike and same prices.

My TZ uses standard GP125 rubber, same price...
</div></div>