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Paige
12-16-2004, 02:41 PM
Ronnie Hay had a great idea - (I don't want to steal credit!) He thought that these shock sensing gismos for helmets might be a great idea for the club to require. His "selling point" was that if a rider is unconscious, the attending paramedics may look at the sensor to see there was a head hit. Another use would be for tech inspection. A helmet with an illuminated sensor does not pass tech inspection. This will take the guess work out of visually inspecting helmets. (Ex: Does a scuff render a helmet unsafe? Maybe, but maybe not.)

Anyway, if this is something that the CMRA wishes to do, I have spoken with my vendor and we can provide a nice discount for a volume purchase of these already inexpensive devices ($20). And, I'd be happy to help with administration of this project.

More information is available on the sensors and the development work that went into them at: http://www.shok-spotr.com/

Let me know what y'all think.

Paige
texas BiKER ZoNE
469-364-5566

Paige
12-16-2004, 02:41 PM
Ronnie Hay had a great idea - (I don't want to steal credit!) He thought that these shock sensing gismos for helmets might be a great idea for the club to require. His "selling point" was that if a rider is unconscious, the attending paramedics may look at the sensor to see there was a head hit. Another use would be for tech inspection. A helmet with an illuminated sensor does not pass tech inspection. This will take the guess work out of visually inspecting helmets. (Ex: Does a scuff render a helmet unsafe? Maybe, but maybe not.)

Anyway, if this is something that the CMRA wishes to do, I have spoken with my vendor and we can provide a nice discount for a volume purchase of these already inexpensive devices ($20). And, I'd be happy to help with administration of this project.

More information is available on the sensors and the development work that went into them at: http://www.shok-spotr.com/

Let me know what y'all think.

Paige
texas BiKER ZoNE
469-364-5566

waytooslow
12-16-2004, 02:55 PM
don't mean to rain on this idea, but the key words are "maybe damaged"...

waytooslow
12-16-2004, 02:55 PM
don't mean to rain on this idea, but the key words are "maybe damaged"...

lowfat_bry
12-16-2004, 05:38 PM
Maybe is close enough when it comes to my head. I will do this for next season even if it is not required. We just need to make sure the paramedics know what they are looking at.

lowfat_bry
12-16-2004, 05:38 PM
Maybe is close enough when it comes to my head. I will do this for next season even if it is not required. We just need to make sure the paramedics know what they are looking at.

waytooslow
12-16-2004, 06:11 PM
so more equipment to buy, maintain etc... sorry Bryan, just don't see the reasoning here.

I have my helment in hand and bump it against the tail piece, sensor activates... can't pass tech..

Sort of like that helmet removal system. Too many variables.

waytooslow
12-16-2004, 06:11 PM
so more equipment to buy, maintain etc... sorry Bryan, just don't see the reasoning here.

I have my helment in hand and bump it against the tail piece, sensor activates... can't pass tech..

Sort of like that helmet removal system. Too many variables.

lowfat_bry
12-16-2004, 08:12 PM
Paige have you tested the device? Are there some articles concerning the device? And for accident I could trip will getting off my bike in the pits and crack my helmet against the ground and quess what....Impact absorbing liner is done for...helmet no good.

lowfat_bry
12-16-2004, 08:12 PM
Paige have you tested the device? Are there some articles concerning the device? And for accident I could trip will getting off my bike in the pits and crack my helmet against the ground and quess what....Impact absorbing liner is done for...helmet no good.

Bryan Norton
12-16-2004, 09:18 PM
Cool idea, but what prevents a rider from yanking it off and replacing it with a fresh one to 'prove' his helmet can still pass tech?

Bryan Norton
12-16-2004, 09:18 PM
Cool idea, but what prevents a rider from yanking it off and replacing it with a fresh one to 'prove' his helmet can still pass tech?

Paige
12-17-2004, 10:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
Cool idea, but what prevents a rider from yanking it off and replacing it with a fresh one to 'prove' his helmet can still pass tech? </div></div>Good point.......i think the answer is "concern for one's own safety": the same thing that prevents a rider from duct-taping their gear back together to get through tech. (Really, it's ultimately the rider's responsibility to make sure their gear is fit for racing...if they try to fool tech bad enough, they may just succeed.)

Maybe it shouldn't be a tech requirement, but just a tool to help riders judge the integrity of their helmet.

Its easy to visually inspect leathers, boots and gloves, but without x-ray vision, we can't accurately inspect our helmets. We can't tell from the outside of a helmet if the inside is damaged. I can drag my helmet on the pavement and never give it an impact and if it's scraped up bad enough, it might not pass tech, when in reality, it never took an impact. On the other hand, my last crash rang my bell and left me with double vision for a good 5 minutes and a pretty big lump on my forehead...think I hit my head pretty hard? Well, my helmet had no visible indication of any damage. I stopped using it, but it would have passed tech with not even a second look.

How many low-side crashes result in a scraped up helmet? Can you remember if you hit your head or just dragged it? If your helmet did it's job and absorbed the energy of the impact, you won't even realize how hard it hit.

Anyway, these devices are available, and if we decided to purchase a quantity, they will work with us on price.

Paige
12-17-2004, 10:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
Cool idea, but what prevents a rider from yanking it off and replacing it with a fresh one to 'prove' his helmet can still pass tech? </div></div>Good point.......i think the answer is "concern for one's own safety": the same thing that prevents a rider from duct-taping their gear back together to get through tech. (Really, it's ultimately the rider's responsibility to make sure their gear is fit for racing...if they try to fool tech bad enough, they may just succeed.)

Maybe it shouldn't be a tech requirement, but just a tool to help riders judge the integrity of their helmet.

Its easy to visually inspect leathers, boots and gloves, but without x-ray vision, we can't accurately inspect our helmets. We can't tell from the outside of a helmet if the inside is damaged. I can drag my helmet on the pavement and never give it an impact and if it's scraped up bad enough, it might not pass tech, when in reality, it never took an impact. On the other hand, my last crash rang my bell and left me with double vision for a good 5 minutes and a pretty big lump on my forehead...think I hit my head pretty hard? Well, my helmet had no visible indication of any damage. I stopped using it, but it would have passed tech with not even a second look.

How many low-side crashes result in a scraped up helmet? Can you remember if you hit your head or just dragged it? If your helmet did it's job and absorbed the energy of the impact, you won't even realize how hard it hit.

Anyway, these devices are available, and if we decided to purchase a quantity, they will work with us on price.

R Eads
12-17-2004, 11:48 AM
I think these may be a good idea, but me personally, I treat my helmet with extremme care. If it takes any kind impact at all it is replaced, no questions ask. I figure the few hundred dollars a new helmet cost is far cheaper than a head injury, although you hit hard enough, even the helmet may not be able to protect you.

I have one question, yes this little device may be able to tell you your helment to X impact, but how are you going to know if the helment is really damaged with out sending it in. Some helments may take a harder impact than others without having damage, I don't know. Again, me personally, if my helment takes a impact it is retired.

Richard Eads

R Eads
12-17-2004, 11:48 AM
I think these may be a good idea, but me personally, I treat my helmet with extremme care. If it takes any kind impact at all it is replaced, no questions ask. I figure the few hundred dollars a new helmet cost is far cheaper than a head injury, although you hit hard enough, even the helmet may not be able to protect you.

I have one question, yes this little device may be able to tell you your helment to X impact, but how are you going to know if the helment is really damaged with out sending it in. Some helments may take a harder impact than others without having damage, I don't know. Again, me personally, if my helment takes a impact it is retired.

Richard Eads

Ronnie Hay
12-17-2004, 01:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have my helment in hand and bump it against the tail piece, sensor activates... can't pass tech..</div></div>If you bump the helmet hard enough it probably should not be used! According to most helmet manufacturers websites, it doesn't take much of an impact to decommision a helmet.

It's just something to consider. There are several riders that do not like wearing back protectors! Some see this as foolish, and others think it is prudent. There is no one answer that will please everyone. If not a requirement, then perhaps just making them accessible.

Head injuries are very, very serious. And thus, so should preventing head injuries be taken very seriously.

In crisis situations information is paramount. If there is a reliable gauge that can be read to help determine the intensity of the impact to my head, I'm all for it.

If the first responder (usually a cornerworker) knows right away that there was a severe head trauma or just a minor impact, the rider is truly better served.

Here's my $.10 'cuz my $.02 is free,
Ronnie

Ronnie Hay
12-17-2004, 01:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have my helment in hand and bump it against the tail piece, sensor activates... can't pass tech..</div></div>If you bump the helmet hard enough it probably should not be used! According to most helmet manufacturers websites, it doesn't take much of an impact to decommision a helmet.

It's just something to consider. There are several riders that do not like wearing back protectors! Some see this as foolish, and others think it is prudent. There is no one answer that will please everyone. If not a requirement, then perhaps just making them accessible.

Head injuries are very, very serious. And thus, so should preventing head injuries be taken very seriously.

In crisis situations information is paramount. If there is a reliable gauge that can be read to help determine the intensity of the impact to my head, I'm all for it.

If the first responder (usually a cornerworker) knows right away that there was a severe head trauma or just a minor impact, the rider is truly better served.

Here's my $.10 'cuz my $.02 is free,
Ronnie

Paige
12-18-2004, 11:24 AM
I got some more info from a Shock SpotR engineer:

1. On average, it takes a 60" drop onto concrete to trip a sensor on an empty helmet.

2. They have tested several hundred helmets from all of the major manufacturers.

3. They have not had a single complaint of an accidental "trip" this year from any of their development riders and sponsored rider. That's several dozen riders, most of whom are dirt riders.

Here's a description of the product in the engineer's own words:

"Shok-SpotRô is really there to help riders do what their helmet manufacturer has been telling them to do: stop relying on the helmet if it has seen a severe impact. We want people with a red sensor to let the helmet maker decide whether its damaged, or just buy a new one."

Paige
12-18-2004, 11:24 AM
I got some more info from a Shock SpotR engineer:

1. On average, it takes a 60" drop onto concrete to trip a sensor on an empty helmet.

2. They have tested several hundred helmets from all of the major manufacturers.

3. They have not had a single complaint of an accidental "trip" this year from any of their development riders and sponsored rider. That's several dozen riders, most of whom are dirt riders.

Here's a description of the product in the engineer's own words:

"Shok-SpotRô is really there to help riders do what their helmet manufacturer has been telling them to do: stop relying on the helmet if it has seen a severe impact. We want people with a red sensor to let the helmet maker decide whether its damaged, or just buy a new one."

waytooslow
12-18-2004, 12:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Paige LaBella:
I got some more info from a Shock SpotR engineer:

1. On average, it takes a 60" drop onto concrete to trip a sensor on an empty helmet.

2. They have tested several hundred helmets from all of the major manufacturers.

3. They have not had a single complaint of an accidental "trip" this year from any of their development riders and sponsored rider. That's several dozen riders, most of whom are dirt riders. .....................

</div></div>Thanks, answered all my questions... okay I am game. Need like 4 of them. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

waytooslow
12-18-2004, 12:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Paige LaBella:
I got some more info from a Shock SpotR engineer:

1. On average, it takes a 60" drop onto concrete to trip a sensor on an empty helmet.

2. They have tested several hundred helmets from all of the major manufacturers.

3. They have not had a single complaint of an accidental "trip" this year from any of their development riders and sponsored rider. That's several dozen riders, most of whom are dirt riders. .....................

</div></div>Thanks, answered all my questions... okay I am game. Need like 4 of them. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif