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anthony c smith
03-11-2005, 11:38 PM
Addition;
Could the board PLEASE set a cut off date to changes in displacement limits in the mini classes.
Unlike the bigger displacement bikes, alot of minis cant just be bought and be competitive out of the box. Alot of the minis are very custom machines that require alot of the builders time and efforts.
If a cut off date for displacement changes were implemented, then it would give everyone a fair chance to build competitive machinery.

Request;
To retract the maximum displacement in formula 5 back to 150cc 4 stroke machinery for the remainder of the season.
The latest displacement change in formula 5 was announced on January 20, 2005 in the announcement section. This was less than 1 month before the first race of the season. This is by no means ample opportunity for competive machinery to be built. Most all mini riders and teams had their machinery chosen at this point. This excessive displacement allowance is only benificial to an already competitive diplacement machine.

Bryan Norton posted <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
posted December 29, 2004 02:44 PM
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Troy - it's the chicken and egg syndrome. There are not enough 80cc 2 stroke motards to fill up a class, and without having to create multiple mini-motard classes I think we'll have the same problem...

I don't think we need more than 4 mini classes. There might be a minor tweak but I don't think anything major. We need to let things settle some more and see what people wanna bring to the track...
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Posts: 775 | From: h-town | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged |

anthony c smith

Member
Member # 307

Member Rated:
posted December 29, 2004 05:17 PM
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ok......can we all know what the "minor tweak" is so everyone has the same chance to get a bike ready? Thanks, Anthony.
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Posts:

</div></div>A raise in displacement of 25cc for any mini is FAR from a "minor tweak" rather it be 4 strokes or 2. That is almost a 40% power gain. The 150cc was already shown last season as a competitive machine in the f5 class in motard trim. It has not only beat the rs60's but the Derbi and Aprilia 75cc bikes as well. If you allow this displacement increase you will be phasing out a already good structure that is quite competitive.
Thank you for your time, Anthony Smith.
512-760-6614

anthony c smith
03-11-2005, 11:38 PM
Addition;
Could the board PLEASE set a cut off date to changes in displacement limits in the mini classes.
Unlike the bigger displacement bikes, alot of minis cant just be bought and be competitive out of the box. Alot of the minis are very custom machines that require alot of the builders time and efforts.
If a cut off date for displacement changes were implemented, then it would give everyone a fair chance to build competitive machinery.

Request;
To retract the maximum displacement in formula 5 back to 150cc 4 stroke machinery for the remainder of the season.
The latest displacement change in formula 5 was announced on January 20, 2005 in the announcement section. This was less than 1 month before the first race of the season. This is by no means ample opportunity for competive machinery to be built. Most all mini riders and teams had their machinery chosen at this point. This excessive displacement allowance is only benificial to an already competitive diplacement machine.

Bryan Norton posted <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
posted December 29, 2004 02:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy - it's the chicken and egg syndrome. There are not enough 80cc 2 stroke motards to fill up a class, and without having to create multiple mini-motard classes I think we'll have the same problem...

I don't think we need more than 4 mini classes. There might be a minor tweak but I don't think anything major. We need to let things settle some more and see what people wanna bring to the track...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 775 | From: h-town | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged |

anthony c smith

Member
Member # 307

Member Rated:
posted December 29, 2004 05:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok......can we all know what the "minor tweak" is so everyone has the same chance to get a bike ready? Thanks, Anthony.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts:

</div></div>A raise in displacement of 25cc for any mini is FAR from a "minor tweak" rather it be 4 strokes or 2. That is almost a 40% power gain. The 150cc was already shown last season as a competitive machine in the f5 class in motard trim. It has not only beat the rs60's but the Derbi and Aprilia 75cc bikes as well. If you allow this displacement increase you will be phasing out a already good structure that is quite competitive.
Thank you for your time, Anthony Smith.
512-760-6614

Jack Giesecke
03-12-2005, 08:31 AM
Second the motion

Jack Giesecke
03-12-2005, 08:31 AM
Second the motion

Jason Keene
03-12-2005, 08:59 PM
I'll back you guys on that...

THIRD on this front....

Jason Keene
03-12-2005, 08:59 PM
I'll back you guys on that...

THIRD on this front....

Bryan Norton
03-13-2005, 11:10 AM
I would be much more concerned with the 72cc (75cc legal) Aprilias than any 4 stroke. There was no whining about these bikes, and they have been in the rulebook for a year already.

As far as current 4 stroke rules/performance we only have a single race to compare, but we can also look at last year's F5 winner at the first Oak Hill (on a 2 stroke)

Troy Green is listed on Team Extreme's roster. Not sure how much he got to ride since work had me in California on that Saturday, but he's definately not a novice.

Last Years winner at the first Oak Hill Race (On a 2 stroke)
Fast lap: 1:46.1 on lap 43 of stint 2
Average Lap Time (including pits): 1:51.58
Average Lap Time (exluding pits): 1:50.31
Average pit stop: 2:25.36


This Year's winner at the first Oak Hill Race (on the 4 stroke)
Fast lap: 1:49.42 on lap 18 of stint 1
Average Lap Time (including pits): 1:54.9
Average Lap Time (exluding pits): 1:54.8
Average pit stop: 1:54.56
Number of stints: 4


A-Electric times this year F5:
Fast lap: 1:48.11 on lap 124 of stint 6
Average Lap Time (including pits): 1:55.99
Average Lap Time (exluding pits): 1:54.96
Average pit stop: 2:16.51
Number of stints: 6

At Oak Hill this year:
Average times of each stint on winning F5 machine
Stint AverageTime
1 1:49.7
2 1:55.83
3 1:55.29
4 2:10.75

Average time of A-Electric
Stint AverageTime
1 1:49.32
2 1:56.36
3 1:59.8
4 1:55.34
5 3:34.32 (only listed as 1 lap - I assume there were technical problems?)
6 1:54.58

Bryan Norton
03-13-2005, 11:10 AM
I would be much more concerned with the 72cc (75cc legal) Aprilias than any 4 stroke. There was no whining about these bikes, and they have been in the rulebook for a year already.

As far as current 4 stroke rules/performance we only have a single race to compare, but we can also look at last year's F5 winner at the first Oak Hill (on a 2 stroke)

Troy Green is listed on Team Extreme's roster. Not sure how much he got to ride since work had me in California on that Saturday, but he's definately not a novice.

Last Years winner at the first Oak Hill Race (On a 2 stroke)
Fast lap: 1:46.1 on lap 43 of stint 2
Average Lap Time (including pits): 1:51.58
Average Lap Time (exluding pits): 1:50.31
Average pit stop: 2:25.36


This Year's winner at the first Oak Hill Race (on the 4 stroke)
Fast lap: 1:49.42 on lap 18 of stint 1
Average Lap Time (including pits): 1:54.9
Average Lap Time (exluding pits): 1:54.8
Average pit stop: 1:54.56
Number of stints: 4


A-Electric times this year F5:
Fast lap: 1:48.11 on lap 124 of stint 6
Average Lap Time (including pits): 1:55.99
Average Lap Time (exluding pits): 1:54.96
Average pit stop: 2:16.51
Number of stints: 6

At Oak Hill this year:
Average times of each stint on winning F5 machine
Stint AverageTime
1 1:49.7
2 1:55.83
3 1:55.29
4 2:10.75

Average time of A-Electric
Stint AverageTime
1 1:49.32
2 1:56.36
3 1:59.8
4 1:55.34
5 3:34.32 (only listed as 1 lap - I assume there were technical problems?)
6 1:54.58

anthony c smith
03-13-2005, 12:01 PM
I think you missed the point Bryan, ample EQUAL OPPORTUNITY please.

anthony c smith
03-13-2005, 12:01 PM
I think you missed the point Bryan, ample EQUAL OPPORTUNITY please.

TX_03_RC51
03-13-2005, 04:06 PM
I would like to point out that it's only a 15cc increase, as last years limit for 4 stroke air cooled motors in F5 was 160cc because a CRF150 is actually 159cc stock.

On another note, Troy didn't ride with my team at all at Oak Hill. I had talked with him a while back about riding the 3 Oak Hill races with my team because we would have like another person to ride. Anyway, I couldn't find Troy Saturday morning and put him on my roster, just in case he wanted to ride. I found him after the race and he said that he wasn't feeling well, etc., but that he would ride at the next Oak Hill event. I just wanted to clarify that Troy did not ride at all in the 4 hour at Oak Hill this year.

Robert

TX_03_RC51
03-13-2005, 04:06 PM
I would like to point out that it's only a 15cc increase, as last years limit for 4 stroke air cooled motors in F5 was 160cc because a CRF150 is actually 159cc stock.

On another note, Troy didn't ride with my team at all at Oak Hill. I had talked with him a while back about riding the 3 Oak Hill races with my team because we would have like another person to ride. Anyway, I couldn't find Troy Saturday morning and put him on my roster, just in case he wanted to ride. I found him after the race and he said that he wasn't feeling well, etc., but that he would ride at the next Oak Hill event. I just wanted to clarify that Troy did not ride at all in the 4 hour at Oak Hill this year.

Robert

Rich Desmond
03-13-2005, 07:17 PM
Anthony,

I completely agree that the rules should be set in stone earlier than January. (Ideally, a lot earlier.) However, the specific rule in question is hardly an issue. A good, well-ridden RS60 will kill any F5-legal 4-stroke.

Rich Desmond
03-13-2005, 07:17 PM
Anthony,

I completely agree that the rules should be set in stone earlier than January. (Ideally, a lot earlier.) However, the specific rule in question is hardly an issue. A good, well-ridden RS60 will kill any F5-legal 4-stroke.