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Jiveturky
03-22-2005, 04:32 PM
I have a suggestion that will possibly help our Jr. Motard event. Since the original rules are back and the predominate bike is a TTR 90, why can't we just do away with the speed limit. both Ethan and Jake's bikes are completely stock with the stock gearing. These two kids ran a hell of a race on Sunday just to get disqualified. This is basically a spec class anyway. It is very hard to keep the bike under but close to 50 so Fred and I decided to go with the stock gearing. Every track is different some with longer straights and some with more inclines, and don't forget about the tail winds or head winds. It would be alot easier on you, the kids, and the parents if we just stated stock... Some kids may run 54 mph and some may run 35 mph depending on their skill level and track conditions. This means no guess work for anyone, you either race your bike stock or get disqualified.

Thanks, Eric Yost

Jiveturky
03-22-2005, 04:32 PM
I have a suggestion that will possibly help our Jr. Motard event. Since the original rules are back and the predominate bike is a TTR 90, why can't we just do away with the speed limit. both Ethan and Jake's bikes are completely stock with the stock gearing. These two kids ran a hell of a race on Sunday just to get disqualified. This is basically a spec class anyway. It is very hard to keep the bike under but close to 50 so Fred and I decided to go with the stock gearing. Every track is different some with longer straights and some with more inclines, and don't forget about the tail winds or head winds. It would be alot easier on you, the kids, and the parents if we just stated stock... Some kids may run 54 mph and some may run 35 mph depending on their skill level and track conditions. This means no guess work for anyone, you either race your bike stock or get disqualified.

Thanks, Eric Yost

David Branyon
03-22-2005, 11:26 PM
Well now that is just too funny to pass up! Eric, I met you this weekend I think, and you are a very pleasant fellow (I think it was you that loaned me the orange cones to protect my spot and stuff while I ran to town Friday night). However, after all the stuff a year ago (ref: http://www.frenzy.com/UBB/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000138;p=1 ) with you pushing out the original rules in favor of being able to mod your 50 to an 88 instead of buying a TTR90, which resulted in the #*&^% 50 mph speed limit (when no one has a speedometer)...

But NOW, when your kid (who has in the meantime, managed to acquire a TTR90) gets dq'd on a completely stock bike (just like we got last year at TWS after being legal in practice), you want the rules changed again?!

Priceless.

p.s. Ethan and Jake both rode terrific races. Congratulations to them on a fine race.

David Branyon
03-22-2005, 11:26 PM
Well now that is just too funny to pass up! Eric, I met you this weekend I think, and you are a very pleasant fellow (I think it was you that loaned me the orange cones to protect my spot and stuff while I ran to town Friday night). However, after all the stuff a year ago (ref: http://www.frenzy.com/UBB/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000138;p=1 ) with you pushing out the original rules in favor of being able to mod your 50 to an 88 instead of buying a TTR90, which resulted in the #*&^% 50 mph speed limit (when no one has a speedometer)...

But NOW, when your kid (who has in the meantime, managed to acquire a TTR90) gets dq'd on a completely stock bike (just like we got last year at TWS after being legal in practice), you want the rules changed again?!

Priceless.

p.s. Ethan and Jake both rode terrific races. Congratulations to them on a fine race.

Jiveturky
03-23-2005, 10:19 AM
David,

Call it what you want. All I want is for the kids to be able to race without getting hurt physically or disqualified. If you read the old posts I pushed for the kid on the klx 110 to be able to race. The only reason I wanted the Honda's allowed is that it was what we owned. The 88cc kit was always in Ethan's bike and I didn't see why it was necessary to go spend another $2K when his current bike would suffice. I also suspected that the littke 88cc Honda would be competative and wanted him to be able to race without being disqualified. Hence my pushing for a more rounded set of rules be it cc limits or MPH limits. Now however, the rules are changed yet again, and rather than stirring up the pot I bit the bullet and conformed only to be disqualified.. Under the old rules I could see the need for a MPH limit because different bikes might go too far over 50 to keep the kiddo's safe. I don't think the speed limit was set up concerning the equality of machines considering this has been stated many times over to not be a competative race. The way the rules are written today it does not exclude any bike from racing, but in a round about way does eliminate most from being competative other than the TTR 90. For instance you can race an xr-50, xr-70, KTM-50, etc., but must keep them stock. You know as well as I do that known of those bikes wiil run up to par with a TTR-90 without added cc's. In my mind we now have just about as close as we could get to a spec class and I don't have a problem with that. So why not make it easy on everyone and keep them stock?? We know the stock TTR 90 will only go 54 MPH on a good day. At OHR the kids didn't break any speed limits but at MSR some did. So now we will need to play the guessing game for different tracks and gearing. All because of less than 5 MPH difference in speed. Anyway, I am sure people will still beleive what they want about me and other parents involved in this sport despite my exlanations. This is fine with me I am not out here to win a popularity contest I just want my son and I to have a good time. Changing gearing from track to track or between practice and the races, or getting disqualified directly affects this outcome.

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
03-23-2005, 10:19 AM
David,

Call it what you want. All I want is for the kids to be able to race without getting hurt physically or disqualified. If you read the old posts I pushed for the kid on the klx 110 to be able to race. The only reason I wanted the Honda's allowed is that it was what we owned. The 88cc kit was always in Ethan's bike and I didn't see why it was necessary to go spend another $2K when his current bike would suffice. I also suspected that the littke 88cc Honda would be competative and wanted him to be able to race without being disqualified. Hence my pushing for a more rounded set of rules be it cc limits or MPH limits. Now however, the rules are changed yet again, and rather than stirring up the pot I bit the bullet and conformed only to be disqualified.. Under the old rules I could see the need for a MPH limit because different bikes might go too far over 50 to keep the kiddo's safe. I don't think the speed limit was set up concerning the equality of machines considering this has been stated many times over to not be a competative race. The way the rules are written today it does not exclude any bike from racing, but in a round about way does eliminate most from being competative other than the TTR 90. For instance you can race an xr-50, xr-70, KTM-50, etc., but must keep them stock. You know as well as I do that known of those bikes wiil run up to par with a TTR-90 without added cc's. In my mind we now have just about as close as we could get to a spec class and I don't have a problem with that. So why not make it easy on everyone and keep them stock?? We know the stock TTR 90 will only go 54 MPH on a good day. At OHR the kids didn't break any speed limits but at MSR some did. So now we will need to play the guessing game for different tracks and gearing. All because of less than 5 MPH difference in speed. Anyway, I am sure people will still beleive what they want about me and other parents involved in this sport despite my exlanations. This is fine with me I am not out here to win a popularity contest I just want my son and I to have a good time. Changing gearing from track to track or between practice and the races, or getting disqualified directly affects this outcome.

Later, Eric

David Milner
03-23-2005, 08:42 PM
Ok, I read the thread twice to make sure.

Maybe I need a third time, but here goes.

I watched the races and was impressed by all the kids having a very good handle on how to work the bikes and the track. They tucked when they should, leaned in, very good overall. I was impressed with the skill level at that age.

I was talking to my son about his interest level, and might have to do something later in the season or next.

Now, with that said, I have a question.

Are the restrictions placed on the class to keep the kids honest, or the parents.

I can put race pistons in my TL, which aren't street legal, and no cop would ticket me for it.

David Milner
03-23-2005, 08:42 PM
Ok, I read the thread twice to make sure.

Maybe I need a third time, but here goes.

I watched the races and was impressed by all the kids having a very good handle on how to work the bikes and the track. They tucked when they should, leaned in, very good overall. I was impressed with the skill level at that age.

I was talking to my son about his interest level, and might have to do something later in the season or next.

Now, with that said, I have a question.

Are the restrictions placed on the class to keep the kids honest, or the parents.

I can put race pistons in my TL, which aren't street legal, and no cop would ticket me for it.

Keith Hertell
03-23-2005, 09:22 PM
Maybe we need to go back to the original idea.

STOCK TTR90's nothing else. NO gearing changes, or ANYTHING. OOPS, tires of course.

Sorry, if you don't have one, get one.

However, it could be Honda's, Kawasaki's, Suzuki's etc. But it needs to stay w/ ONE STOCK BIKE.
IMHO!!!

Keith Hertell
03-23-2005, 09:22 PM
Maybe we need to go back to the original idea.

STOCK TTR90's nothing else. NO gearing changes, or ANYTHING. OOPS, tires of course.

Sorry, if you don't have one, get one.

However, it could be Honda's, Kawasaki's, Suzuki's etc. But it needs to stay w/ ONE STOCK BIKE.
IMHO!!!

David Branyon
03-26-2005, 09:31 AM
Well, going back to The Original is any stock dirtbike, no more than 90cc, with auto clutch. Only changes allowed were tires and 4-strokes could change the pipe. No gearing change allowed, no speed limit. (There was a lower displacement limit for 2-strokes and no pipe change allowed but I forget it and it doesn't seem to be a popular option.)

I don't see much problem with those rules. Myself, I'd not even allow a pipe change but that's just me. I don't see a problem with allowing the younger kids to go out on smaller bikes. Many 8 year olds can't reach the ground yet on a TTR90 and so let them run an XR50... what's it hurt, as long as they are okay with not winning.

As I said from the beginning, the 50 mph limit is a problem in that no one knows how fast they are going. It requires at a minimum, going out somewhere that you can put your kid on the bike and let him ride flat out on pavement, hopefully flat for 100 yards or more, with some type of speed measurement, and determining the proper gearing. That process is nearly impossible to achieve. And then, if the wind changes, you may DQ anyway. I actually agree with Eric on this, but the irony of the source was a bit overwhelming.

I think part of the difficulty is that very minor mods to these bikes can create quite a bit more performance. That might have been part of the 50 mph speed limit, in addition to some insistence to allow mods to smaller displacement bikes in the class. However, I'd just let it go and let the kids race. If someone wants to cheat to win a plaque that says "1" instead of "5" in a kid's race, I think they're the loser.

Main thing is we'll roll with the punches and work within whatever rules are there and when we start wanting to get competitive and really RACE, we'll go to the minis.

It is a highlight of my weekend watching all the kids out there. What a HOOT!

David Branyon
03-26-2005, 09:31 AM
Well, going back to The Original is any stock dirtbike, no more than 90cc, with auto clutch. Only changes allowed were tires and 4-strokes could change the pipe. No gearing change allowed, no speed limit. (There was a lower displacement limit for 2-strokes and no pipe change allowed but I forget it and it doesn't seem to be a popular option.)

I don't see much problem with those rules. Myself, I'd not even allow a pipe change but that's just me. I don't see a problem with allowing the younger kids to go out on smaller bikes. Many 8 year olds can't reach the ground yet on a TTR90 and so let them run an XR50... what's it hurt, as long as they are okay with not winning.

As I said from the beginning, the 50 mph limit is a problem in that no one knows how fast they are going. It requires at a minimum, going out somewhere that you can put your kid on the bike and let him ride flat out on pavement, hopefully flat for 100 yards or more, with some type of speed measurement, and determining the proper gearing. That process is nearly impossible to achieve. And then, if the wind changes, you may DQ anyway. I actually agree with Eric on this, but the irony of the source was a bit overwhelming.

I think part of the difficulty is that very minor mods to these bikes can create quite a bit more performance. That might have been part of the 50 mph speed limit, in addition to some insistence to allow mods to smaller displacement bikes in the class. However, I'd just let it go and let the kids race. If someone wants to cheat to win a plaque that says "1" instead of "5" in a kid's race, I think they're the loser.

Main thing is we'll roll with the punches and work within whatever rules are there and when we start wanting to get competitive and really RACE, we'll go to the minis.

It is a highlight of my weekend watching all the kids out there. What a HOOT!

Keith Hertell
03-26-2005, 11:00 AM
I guess you're right about the pipe David. I must've been thinking of the BOD meetings or something. But I do remeber being for COMPLETLY STOCK bikes, except for tires. But at the first race I saw gearing and pipes etc. We went ahead and let everyone run what they had and I think that's what started this whole thing off. We should have DQ'd them then and there.
IMHO! of course.

Keith Hertell
03-26-2005, 11:00 AM
I guess you're right about the pipe David. I must've been thinking of the BOD meetings or something. But I do remeber being for COMPLETLY STOCK bikes, except for tires. But at the first race I saw gearing and pipes etc. We went ahead and let everyone run what they had and I think that's what started this whole thing off. We should have DQ'd them then and there.
IMHO! of course.

David Branyon
03-26-2005, 01:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Eric Yost:
For instance you can race an xr-50, xr-70, KTM-50, etc., but must keep them stock. You know as well as I do that none of those bikes will run up to par with a TTR-90 without added cc's. </div></div>Well, XR70s were 1st and 3rd (3rd and 5th before the DQs) out of 8 entrants, so I wouldn't call that uncompetitive, and I can confirm that ours is bone stock other than tires. It's better than brand S or K has done in MotoGP so far. :rolleyes: He's learning though to have fun whether he's fighting for 1st or for 6th. It's all good.

David Branyon
03-26-2005, 01:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Eric Yost:
For instance you can race an xr-50, xr-70, KTM-50, etc., but must keep them stock. You know as well as I do that none of those bikes will run up to par with a TTR-90 without added cc's. </div></div>Well, XR70s were 1st and 3rd (3rd and 5th before the DQs) out of 8 entrants, so I wouldn't call that uncompetitive, and I can confirm that ours is bone stock other than tires. It's better than brand S or K has done in MotoGP so far. :rolleyes: He's learning though to have fun whether he's fighting for 1st or for 6th. It's all good.

Jiveturky
03-26-2005, 08:55 PM
I agree with David, let all the bikes 90cc and down participate but keep them stock. This will ensure a reasonable speed and eliminate all of the DQ's due to speed limit. I don't want anyone following the rules to be DQ'd Period.. I don't care who it is.

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
03-26-2005, 08:55 PM
I agree with David, let all the bikes 90cc and down participate but keep them stock. This will ensure a reasonable speed and eliminate all of the DQ's due to speed limit. I don't want anyone following the rules to be DQ'd Period.. I don't care who it is.

Later, Eric

David Branyon
03-27-2005, 08:42 PM
Well heck, I think that calls for a rule change just on the basis of me and Eric agreeing on something. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Only thing we're missing is any comments or thoughts from the BOD.

I think it'd be the right thing, but like I said, we'll get by with whatever rules exist. Only negative I see is that it's a rule change after the season starts, but shouldn't affect anyone's hardware since the completely stock rule is already in place and would still be.

Eric, no hard feelings. Look forward to seeing you and Ethan out there next time.

Happy trails all!

David Branyon
03-27-2005, 08:42 PM
Well heck, I think that calls for a rule change just on the basis of me and Eric agreeing on something. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Only thing we're missing is any comments or thoughts from the BOD.

I think it'd be the right thing, but like I said, we'll get by with whatever rules exist. Only negative I see is that it's a rule change after the season starts, but shouldn't affect anyone's hardware since the completely stock rule is already in place and would still be.

Eric, no hard feelings. Look forward to seeing you and Ethan out there next time.

Happy trails all!

Jiveturky
03-29-2005, 07:48 PM
David,

I never have hard feelings. I think we always wanted the same thing in a round about way. Anyway, I hope to have a decision before TWS because I am not planning on buying new gearing and I guarntee the bike will go just as fast as Cresson. Sprocket specialist have a 6 week lead time.

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
03-29-2005, 07:48 PM
David,

I never have hard feelings. I think we always wanted the same thing in a round about way. Anyway, I hope to have a decision before TWS because I am not planning on buying new gearing and I guarntee the bike will go just as fast as Cresson. Sprocket specialist have a 6 week lead time.

Later, Eric

04-01-2005, 09:47 AM
well as far as i can remember back they changed the rules every weekend, do to somebody crying,the last thing i remember was any mods dont break the speed limit!!!!!!and whoever thought a bone stock ttr-90 would not do over 50 mph were very mistaken,you cant win eric, formula 7 baby!!!!!!!!! no crying then... give me a call at the shop. later brett

04-01-2005, 09:47 AM
well as far as i can remember back they changed the rules every weekend, do to somebody crying,the last thing i remember was any mods dont break the speed limit!!!!!!and whoever thought a bone stock ttr-90 would not do over 50 mph were very mistaken,you cant win eric, formula 7 baby!!!!!!!!! no crying then... give me a call at the shop. later brett