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Ronnie Hay
06-08-2005, 09:47 AM
I am not sure if this is a suggestion for the BoD or the CMRA staff but since there is currently not a "Questions for the CMRA staff" forum this may be the best place.

But I digress...

Endurance registration has seemingly become a rather sensitive issue this year. IF this club continues to grow, seemingly innocuous things such as endurance registration can become a rather taxing affair.

The current solution is to pre-register. And if you don't pre-register and the grid fills...then too bad.

Now this is a valid solution, and one that most fits Occam's Razor but we don't live in a world of absolutes.

Things happen (which is why most of us have insurance), life often just gets in the way. It is exactly because of this that I would like to make the following suggestion:

1) To ensure a spot for your legitimate (not a team formed for the sole intention of track time and practice) endurance team, it is in your best interests to pre-register.

2) If that is not possible, then the first hour of registration is reserved for endurance teams that have accumulated points for the current year. If a team did not pre-register but they are serious about entering than they should have no qualms ensuring that they are first in line that Saturday morning.

3) After that reserved hour, if any grid spots are availabe it is first come, first served.

I understand how pre-registering makes life much simpler for the staff and the riders. I just want to impress upon the powers-that-be that it is entirely possible for pre-registering for an endurance race to fall of the list of priorities.

For most of us this is an expensive hobby that is supported by our jobs, tolerated by our significant others and frowned upon by our health care providers. If you're a parent and raising a child, feel free to toss in another ball to juggle.

In spite of that, racers just want to race.

This is proposed only as a compromise to the current system. In all probability there is not perfect solution so we must strive for the best compromise.

Ronnie Hay
06-08-2005, 09:47 AM
I am not sure if this is a suggestion for the BoD or the CMRA staff but since there is currently not a "Questions for the CMRA staff" forum this may be the best place.

But I digress...

Endurance registration has seemingly become a rather sensitive issue this year. IF this club continues to grow, seemingly innocuous things such as endurance registration can become a rather taxing affair.

The current solution is to pre-register. And if you don't pre-register and the grid fills...then too bad.

Now this is a valid solution, and one that most fits Occam's Razor but we don't live in a world of absolutes.

Things happen (which is why most of us have insurance), life often just gets in the way. It is exactly because of this that I would like to make the following suggestion:

1) To ensure a spot for your legitimate (not a team formed for the sole intention of track time and practice) endurance team, it is in your best interests to pre-register.

2) If that is not possible, then the first hour of registration is reserved for endurance teams that have accumulated points for the current year. If a team did not pre-register but they are serious about entering than they should have no qualms ensuring that they are first in line that Saturday morning.

3) After that reserved hour, if any grid spots are availabe it is first come, first served.

I understand how pre-registering makes life much simpler for the staff and the riders. I just want to impress upon the powers-that-be that it is entirely possible for pre-registering for an endurance race to fall of the list of priorities.

For most of us this is an expensive hobby that is supported by our jobs, tolerated by our significant others and frowned upon by our health care providers. If you're a parent and raising a child, feel free to toss in another ball to juggle.

In spite of that, racers just want to race.

This is proposed only as a compromise to the current system. In all probability there is not perfect solution so we must strive for the best compromise.

Steve Breen
06-08-2005, 10:37 AM
Ronnie,

I am currently pitching this very notion to the rest of the BoD. Folks that support this would do well to communicate with BoD members to make sure your voice is heard.

Steve Breen
06-08-2005, 10:37 AM
Ronnie,

I am currently pitching this very notion to the rest of the BoD. Folks that support this would do well to communicate with BoD members to make sure your voice is heard.

Derek Delpero
06-08-2005, 10:56 AM
1. If we allow you to pre-register for all races at the begining of the year (or anytime during the year)(which we do, without charging you until the Monday before the race), then if you are serious about endurance racing, what is wrong with pre-registering?

2. What happens if the grid fills up from pre-registering? Do we tell the teams without points, sorry, but our other *serious* teams that can't seem to get their act together and plan ahead have precedence over a team that can plan ahead? To me that runs the risk of turning away more people. I know if I were told I *might* be able to race, I'd probably not make the effort. Plus, no matter what the time constraints, this would be really unfair to teams on the waiting list. Do we still let them practice? They still have to buy tires and get all their stuff together etc ...

3. It gets more complicated too because from track to track the grid limit changes. This year after the first race, we already had more teams with points then grid spots. Combine this issue with item 2 and I could see some fighting going on in registration /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

IMO, first come first serve.

Derek Delpero
06-08-2005, 10:56 AM
1. If we allow you to pre-register for all races at the begining of the year (or anytime during the year)(which we do, without charging you until the Monday before the race), then if you are serious about endurance racing, what is wrong with pre-registering?

2. What happens if the grid fills up from pre-registering? Do we tell the teams without points, sorry, but our other *serious* teams that can't seem to get their act together and plan ahead have precedence over a team that can plan ahead? To me that runs the risk of turning away more people. I know if I were told I *might* be able to race, I'd probably not make the effort. Plus, no matter what the time constraints, this would be really unfair to teams on the waiting list. Do we still let them practice? They still have to buy tires and get all their stuff together etc ...

3. It gets more complicated too because from track to track the grid limit changes. This year after the first race, we already had more teams with points then grid spots. Combine this issue with item 2 and I could see some fighting going on in registration /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

IMO, first come first serve.

Nancy Selleck
06-08-2005, 11:09 AM
Good suggestions, Ronnie. While I am not saying yes or no to your suggested changes for endurance registration, allow me to point out a few things.

1. Pre-entry forms were mailed to everyone and have been available on-line since January. Once the forms are available, anyone can pre-enter for any race all year long at any time (as long as it's received by the deadline). Credit cards are not charged until the Monday before the race. Consequently, there is absolutely no reason to wait until the 11th hour to fax or mail a pre-entry form. As a matter of fact, one pre-entry form can be faxed in right now for the rest of the season...just write something to that effect on top of the form. Our cancellation/refund policy was changed in March to eliminate penalizing folks who pre-enter.

2. This past weekend at MSR, there were two endurance teams who had competed previously, who had points and still turned out to be practice teams. They had not pre-entered and registered first thing Saturday morning. Obviously from this example, there is no way of knowing for sure what a team's intentions are and your proposed point system would not eliminate teams that fall into this category.

3. What happens when the first hour passes and a team with points shows up late and the grid is full? I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't want to be there for the ensuing hissy fit that would surely be coming my way by the enraged Team Owner whose team didn't make the cut.

4. And what about teams who pre-enter from other areas thinking they're good to go, show up and can't get on the grid? I understand the feeling that teams who support the entire series should be shown some sort of preference when it comes to getting on the grid, but that's hard to explain to someone who has driven a long way to race and can't because they haven't attended every event.

Okay, I'm done now. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Nancy Selleck
06-08-2005, 11:09 AM
Good suggestions, Ronnie. While I am not saying yes or no to your suggested changes for endurance registration, allow me to point out a few things.

1. Pre-entry forms were mailed to everyone and have been available on-line since January. Once the forms are available, anyone can pre-enter for any race all year long at any time (as long as it's received by the deadline). Credit cards are not charged until the Monday before the race. Consequently, there is absolutely no reason to wait until the 11th hour to fax or mail a pre-entry form. As a matter of fact, one pre-entry form can be faxed in right now for the rest of the season...just write something to that effect on top of the form. Our cancellation/refund policy was changed in March to eliminate penalizing folks who pre-enter.

2. This past weekend at MSR, there were two endurance teams who had competed previously, who had points and still turned out to be practice teams. They had not pre-entered and registered first thing Saturday morning. Obviously from this example, there is no way of knowing for sure what a team's intentions are and your proposed point system would not eliminate teams that fall into this category.

3. What happens when the first hour passes and a team with points shows up late and the grid is full? I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't want to be there for the ensuing hissy fit that would surely be coming my way by the enraged Team Owner whose team didn't make the cut.

4. And what about teams who pre-enter from other areas thinking they're good to go, show up and can't get on the grid? I understand the feeling that teams who support the entire series should be shown some sort of preference when it comes to getting on the grid, but that's hard to explain to someone who has driven a long way to race and can't because they haven't attended every event.

Okay, I'm done now. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Steve Breen
06-08-2005, 11:26 AM
The whole notion here is that grid space is reserved for teams that have indictated their seriousness via their participation in our series.

The reality of the situation is that racers often do not place the same degree of importance that the CMRA staff does, simply because they have a lot of things to pay attention to when preparing for a race. Certainly there is going to be a natural conflict between those two vantage points - they are both focused on different things.

However, from a racer's perspective it seems that the order of entry policy can create a big risk for teams that are campaigning the entire season but yet make a slip in their paperwork. Poof! Their entire season is gone due to a mistake in paperwork. I think that situation is avoidable with a more equitable policy favoring teams that show up week in and week out and accumulate points.

Steve Breen
06-08-2005, 11:26 AM
The whole notion here is that grid space is reserved for teams that have indictated their seriousness via their participation in our series.

The reality of the situation is that racers often do not place the same degree of importance that the CMRA staff does, simply because they have a lot of things to pay attention to when preparing for a race. Certainly there is going to be a natural conflict between those two vantage points - they are both focused on different things.

However, from a racer's perspective it seems that the order of entry policy can create a big risk for teams that are campaigning the entire season but yet make a slip in their paperwork. Poof! Their entire season is gone due to a mistake in paperwork. I think that situation is avoidable with a more equitable policy favoring teams that show up week in and week out and accumulate points.

Derek Delpero
06-08-2005, 11:47 AM
Breeno,

I can see your point, but ... If we are saying send us one pre-entry and indicate on that form that you want to pre-enter for every race, then your paper work issues are solved. Right? What am I missing here?

I'm gonna hate it when we have to deal with this in sprint classes! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Derek Delpero
06-08-2005, 11:47 AM
Breeno,

I can see your point, but ... If we are saying send us one pre-entry and indicate on that form that you want to pre-enter for every race, then your paper work issues are solved. Right? What am I missing here?

I'm gonna hate it when we have to deal with this in sprint classes! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Steve Breen
06-08-2005, 11:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Derek Delpero:
What am I missing here?</div></div>A racer-only non-staff perspective? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

j/k!!

Seriously, tho, at the end of the day if a team -- Gasp! -- doesn't properly follow (yet another) procedure -- they end up penalized on the racetrack. Isnt' racing, not paperwork, the whole point here?

I cry foul on that in this case, cause I think it's something we can work around with a simple club policy.

This is a club of RACERS, so I think a policy that serves their interests is appropriate.

Steve Breen
06-08-2005, 11:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Derek Delpero:
What am I missing here?</div></div>A racer-only non-staff perspective? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

j/k!!

Seriously, tho, at the end of the day if a team -- Gasp! -- doesn't properly follow (yet another) procedure -- they end up penalized on the racetrack. Isnt' racing, not paperwork, the whole point here?

I cry foul on that in this case, cause I think it's something we can work around with a simple club policy.

This is a club of RACERS, so I think a policy that serves their interests is appropriate.

John Orchard
06-08-2005, 12:13 PM
This is slightly off topic, but Derek references it and Nancy has reference the year long pre-entry in many other posts...

I have a question about the notion of pre-entering for the entire or remainder of the year. I know the policy was recently re-written to make the financial impact less significant, but (without getting into what people's time is worth) $10 is still kind of steep imo.

Not so much so that it prevents me from pre-entering prior to the upcoming weekend, but it is enough to prevent me from pre-entering for the entire or remainder of the season. I for some reason I were unable to participate for the remainder of the year, with 5 race weekends remaining, I 'd be out $50 trying to withdraw my pre-entries.

Maybe there could be a further modification so that the admin fee is waived if the entry is withdrawn prior to the race weekend? Or, maybe it makes more sense to refund 100% only if the entry is withdrawn prior to the close of pre-registration? In both cases this would ensure that minimal work has been done with the pre-entry since credit cards aren't charged until after the close of pre-entry and grids can't be compiled until all entries are received on race day anyway.

Other thoughts/suggestions on this?

John Orchard
06-08-2005, 12:13 PM
This is slightly off topic, but Derek references it and Nancy has reference the year long pre-entry in many other posts...

I have a question about the notion of pre-entering for the entire or remainder of the year. I know the policy was recently re-written to make the financial impact less significant, but (without getting into what people's time is worth) $10 is still kind of steep imo.

Not so much so that it prevents me from pre-entering prior to the upcoming weekend, but it is enough to prevent me from pre-entering for the entire or remainder of the season. I for some reason I were unable to participate for the remainder of the year, with 5 race weekends remaining, I 'd be out $50 trying to withdraw my pre-entries.

Maybe there could be a further modification so that the admin fee is waived if the entry is withdrawn prior to the race weekend? Or, maybe it makes more sense to refund 100% only if the entry is withdrawn prior to the close of pre-registration? In both cases this would ensure that minimal work has been done with the pre-entry since credit cards aren't charged until after the close of pre-entry and grids can't be compiled until all entries are received on race day anyway.

Other thoughts/suggestions on this?

Nancy Selleck
06-08-2005, 12:32 PM
John, I take exception to the term "minimal work".

Until you spend the two weeks prior to a race weekend here in the office to see what has to be done to get ready, please refrain from using the term "minimal" with regard to any aspect of preparation. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

As far as refunds go, check around with other clubs...most don't even offer refunds once the weekend has begun.

By the way, I don't charge a $10 admin fee if I haven't charged the credit card yet. I simply shred the cancelled pre-entry. So your arguement for not pre-entering for the rest of season because of excess admin fees doesn't hold water. Sheesh.

Nancy Selleck
06-08-2005, 12:32 PM
John, I take exception to the term "minimal work".

Until you spend the two weeks prior to a race weekend here in the office to see what has to be done to get ready, please refrain from using the term "minimal" with regard to any aspect of preparation. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

As far as refunds go, check around with other clubs...most don't even offer refunds once the weekend has begun.

By the way, I don't charge a $10 admin fee if I haven't charged the credit card yet. I simply shred the cancelled pre-entry. So your arguement for not pre-entering for the rest of season because of excess admin fees doesn't hold water. Sheesh.

Ronnie Hay
06-08-2005, 12:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As a matter of fact, one pre-entry form can be faxed in right now for the rest of the season...just write something to that effect on top of the form.</div></div>This is good information! I was not aware of this, but I intend to take full advantage of it!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3. What happens when the first hour passes and a team with points shows up late and the grid is full?</div></div>We will never come up with a perfect system. The most important variable is the also the most inconsistent: the people!

And the staff can only do so much. Trying to accomodate every possible scenario is an exercise in futility.

But any safety net, is better than none at all.

Can you imagine what baseball would be like if you were only allowed one strike? Just imagine the tantrums we would have witnessed over the last 10 years alone.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ensuing hissy fit that would surely be coming my way by the enraged Team Owner</div></div>An unreasonable person is an unreasonable person. It is not the system that makes them so egregious, most likely they are just that way.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4. And what about teams who pre-enter from other areas thinking they're good to go, show up and can't get on the grid?
</div></div>If pre-entry fills the grid, then the grid is full. It is a simple limited supply vs. elevated demand analogy.

But I think we can all agree that it is unfortunate when a legitimate team cannot race due to that spot being taken by a "practice team".

Something that was once not an issue, that now needs to be addressed. Very similar to cell phones and driving. Just a few short years ago, most cities never considered an ordinance regulating cell phone usage in a moving vehicle. And now....

The demand for the endurance series has increased. Because of this the limits of the old system are being exceeded and "compromised".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">then your paper work issues are solved. Right? What am I missing here?</div></div>That truly helps! But not every team has a single member that can bear that financial burden. And it can be burdensome.

Some teams rotate that responsibility to avoid excessively impacting one teammate's finances. For those teams, a single one time form would not work.

It is simply amazing to me to see the lengths that some go to just to line up on the grid. I just recently learned that we have some members who routinely travel from New Mexico. This kind of dedication is to be commended, especially with minimal rewards at stake. It is only a very select few, who leave these race weekends turning a profit or even breaking even.

And we must be careful, if the pendulum swings the other way where there gradually become less and less people like our fellow New Mexicans, the CMRA may find that its grid problems will solve itself.

Look at all the smiles in Chuck Ergles MSR photo post, that is what we strive for. And it's true you cannot please everyone. You can only make the effort.
--
Ronnie

Ronnie Hay
06-08-2005, 12:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As a matter of fact, one pre-entry form can be faxed in right now for the rest of the season...just write something to that effect on top of the form.</div></div>This is good information! I was not aware of this, but I intend to take full advantage of it!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3. What happens when the first hour passes and a team with points shows up late and the grid is full?</div></div>We will never come up with a perfect system. The most important variable is the also the most inconsistent: the people!

And the staff can only do so much. Trying to accomodate every possible scenario is an exercise in futility.

But any safety net, is better than none at all.

Can you imagine what baseball would be like if you were only allowed one strike? Just imagine the tantrums we would have witnessed over the last 10 years alone.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ensuing hissy fit that would surely be coming my way by the enraged Team Owner</div></div>An unreasonable person is an unreasonable person. It is not the system that makes them so egregious, most likely they are just that way.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4. And what about teams who pre-enter from other areas thinking they're good to go, show up and can't get on the grid?
</div></div>If pre-entry fills the grid, then the grid is full. It is a simple limited supply vs. elevated demand analogy.

But I think we can all agree that it is unfortunate when a legitimate team cannot race due to that spot being taken by a "practice team".

Something that was once not an issue, that now needs to be addressed. Very similar to cell phones and driving. Just a few short years ago, most cities never considered an ordinance regulating cell phone usage in a moving vehicle. And now....

The demand for the endurance series has increased. Because of this the limits of the old system are being exceeded and "compromised".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">then your paper work issues are solved. Right? What am I missing here?</div></div>That truly helps! But not every team has a single member that can bear that financial burden. And it can be burdensome.

Some teams rotate that responsibility to avoid excessively impacting one teammate's finances. For those teams, a single one time form would not work.

It is simply amazing to me to see the lengths that some go to just to line up on the grid. I just recently learned that we have some members who routinely travel from New Mexico. This kind of dedication is to be commended, especially with minimal rewards at stake. It is only a very select few, who leave these race weekends turning a profit or even breaking even.

And we must be careful, if the pendulum swings the other way where there gradually become less and less people like our fellow New Mexicans, the CMRA may find that its grid problems will solve itself.

Look at all the smiles in Chuck Ergles MSR photo post, that is what we strive for. And it's true you cannot please everyone. You can only make the effort.
--
Ronnie

Derek Delpero
06-08-2005, 01:12 PM
Ronnie,

You make some excellent points, but I think the jist of what we (Nancy and myself) are saying is that if you are serious about racing, you are hopefully not going to forget that important issue of registering for the race.

Also worth noting, this time frame can't really be an hour. Take a look a the 8 hour TWS schedule, registration was open for 1.5 hours.

There are so many other things going on in the morning before a race, that I don't think we have extra time to deal with figuring out who can and who can't race. So if we put an emphasis on pre-entry, we could hopefully resolve any issues before we get to the track.

You are right, we can't please every one.

And for those of you that don't know, I am a racer too! :rolleyes:

Derek Delpero
06-08-2005, 01:12 PM
Ronnie,

You make some excellent points, but I think the jist of what we (Nancy and myself) are saying is that if you are serious about racing, you are hopefully not going to forget that important issue of registering for the race.

Also worth noting, this time frame can't really be an hour. Take a look a the 8 hour TWS schedule, registration was open for 1.5 hours.

There are so many other things going on in the morning before a race, that I don't think we have extra time to deal with figuring out who can and who can't race. So if we put an emphasis on pre-entry, we could hopefully resolve any issues before we get to the track.

You are right, we can't please every one.

And for those of you that don't know, I am a racer too! :rolleyes:

John Orchard
06-08-2005, 02:06 PM
Nancy, I in no way meant to imply that the registration process or your involvement was minimal. I used "minimal" just to mean less than the full scope. Possibly a poor choice of words on my part?

Also, my refund question, as well as the example I cited were specifically aimed at the pre-entry refund requests made prior to the start of the race weekend, not after. ...if the entry is withdrawn prior to the race weekend.

As I mentioned previously, my question was slightly off topic. I was not making any kind of an argument. I was simply asking a question.

As for not charging the admin fee prior to the credit card being run, thank you for the clarification. I'm not sure how I would have known about this with out asking? Perhaps this could be included in the written policy in the future? I would surely have preferred to read that for myself, than to have to ask.

John Orchard
06-08-2005, 02:06 PM
Nancy, I in no way meant to imply that the registration process or your involvement was minimal. I used "minimal" just to mean less than the full scope. Possibly a poor choice of words on my part?

Also, my refund question, as well as the example I cited were specifically aimed at the pre-entry refund requests made prior to the start of the race weekend, not after. ...if the entry is withdrawn prior to the race weekend.

As I mentioned previously, my question was slightly off topic. I was not making any kind of an argument. I was simply asking a question.

As for not charging the admin fee prior to the credit card being run, thank you for the clarification. I'm not sure how I would have known about this with out asking? Perhaps this could be included in the written policy in the future? I would surely have preferred to read that for myself, than to have to ask.

Nancy Selleck
06-08-2005, 02:58 PM
I apologize for not having every policy written down on all the forms. Sometimes I use my common sense to decide what is right and wrong. I'll be sure to add that one in the future, although most of the stuff I have written on forms doesn't seem to get read anyway. :rolleyes:

Just to let you know, this is what I do with pre-entry forms before they ever get charged on the Monday before the race: stamp the date on them when they arrive, check to make sure that they have names, signatures, bike make and VIN numbers, emergency contact info, complete credit card and expiration info, call or email the riders when any of that is missing, make 2 copies of each form, alphabetize them, make folder labels and affix them to the folders, stuff the folders with schedules, contingency forms (one for each bike) and transponder rental agreement forms. And of course don't forget that I have to scrutinize each form carefully to determine if anyone has forged signatures. And I forgot to mention the small task of getting all of the entry data into the scoring computer.

Then if a cancellation comes in prior to my charging the credit card, I don't charge the $10 admin. fee. I simply shred the forms and recycle the folder, etc. I guess a $10 admin. fee would be considered excessive considering that the pre-entry forms have been minimally processed prior to charging the credit card. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Nancy Selleck
06-08-2005, 02:58 PM
I apologize for not having every policy written down on all the forms. Sometimes I use my common sense to decide what is right and wrong. I'll be sure to add that one in the future, although most of the stuff I have written on forms doesn't seem to get read anyway. :rolleyes:

Just to let you know, this is what I do with pre-entry forms before they ever get charged on the Monday before the race: stamp the date on them when they arrive, check to make sure that they have names, signatures, bike make and VIN numbers, emergency contact info, complete credit card and expiration info, call or email the riders when any of that is missing, make 2 copies of each form, alphabetize them, make folder labels and affix them to the folders, stuff the folders with schedules, contingency forms (one for each bike) and transponder rental agreement forms. And of course don't forget that I have to scrutinize each form carefully to determine if anyone has forged signatures. And I forgot to mention the small task of getting all of the entry data into the scoring computer.

Then if a cancellation comes in prior to my charging the credit card, I don't charge the $10 admin. fee. I simply shred the forms and recycle the folder, etc. I guess a $10 admin. fee would be considered excessive considering that the pre-entry forms have been minimally processed prior to charging the credit card. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

jroberts5407
06-08-2005, 03:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This past weekend at MSR, there were two endurance teams who had competed previously, who had points and still turned out to be practice teams. They had not pre-entered and registered first thing Saturday morning. </div></div>I hope you do not mean the team I endurance race with, Drive By Racing #90! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif We registered Saturday morning (from what I was told) and we are definitely not a practice team. We are endurance racing in earnest. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

jroberts5407
06-08-2005, 03:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This past weekend at MSR, there were two endurance teams who had competed previously, who had points and still turned out to be practice teams. They had not pre-entered and registered first thing Saturday morning. </div></div>I hope you do not mean the team I endurance race with, Drive By Racing #90! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif We registered Saturday morning (from what I was told) and we are definitely not a practice team. We are endurance racing in earnest. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Troy Green
06-08-2005, 03:32 PM
I understand that order of entry is the easiest way to do registration. Sometimes easy isn't always best..... Because what happens if all the grid slots are filled before pre-registration closes, and one of the top teams that have supported the CMRA for YEARS didn't get there entry in until the last day of Pre-Reg.?
There should be something in place that guarantees that the Teams that are dedicated to the CMRA Endurance races should get to race.

Currently there are ONLY 35 teams that have entered (scored points) in every endurance race for the 2005 season.
So how about the top 40 Teams in the series are Guaranteed a grid position, and I mean all the way up to close of registration on race day? That leaves 15 slots (at Cresson anyway) for anyone else that wants to race by order of entry. So then the 16-?? teams if/when they try and enter you say "the grid is currently full" if you would like to be put on the waiting list that would be their decision.

Just another way of looking at it, and I look forward to any other constructive views or options.


Thanks,

Troy

Troy Green
06-08-2005, 03:32 PM
I understand that order of entry is the easiest way to do registration. Sometimes easy isn't always best..... Because what happens if all the grid slots are filled before pre-registration closes, and one of the top teams that have supported the CMRA for YEARS didn't get there entry in until the last day of Pre-Reg.?
There should be something in place that guarantees that the Teams that are dedicated to the CMRA Endurance races should get to race.

Currently there are ONLY 35 teams that have entered (scored points) in every endurance race for the 2005 season.
So how about the top 40 Teams in the series are Guaranteed a grid position, and I mean all the way up to close of registration on race day? That leaves 15 slots (at Cresson anyway) for anyone else that wants to race by order of entry. So then the 16-?? teams if/when they try and enter you say "the grid is currently full" if you would like to be put on the waiting list that would be their decision.

Just another way of looking at it, and I look forward to any other constructive views or options.


Thanks,

Troy

Nancy Selleck
06-08-2005, 04:15 PM
John, Drive By Racing was not one of the practice teams that I was refering to.

Nancy Selleck
06-08-2005, 04:15 PM
John, Drive By Racing was not one of the practice teams that I was refering to.

06-08-2005, 05:00 PM
so, is there now a policy forbidding practice teams from endurancing? If so, what kind of measures will be taken to enforce it?

06-08-2005, 05:00 PM
so, is there now a policy forbidding practice teams from endurancing? If so, what kind of measures will be taken to enforce it?

Nancy Selleck
06-08-2005, 05:08 PM
Yes, after the Hallett weekend we began a policy of no longer accepting practice teams in endurance race. It's been posted on the message board in other threads.

We do our best to take a look at things like is it a new team, how many people are on the team, who is on the team, etc. And then if we're still not sure, we ask them straight out. We emphasize the fact that the grid is limited and it wouldn't be fair to turn away real teams with points if they were just planning on practicing.

For the most part we have to take their word for it. So much for that.

Nancy Selleck
06-08-2005, 05:08 PM
Yes, after the Hallett weekend we began a policy of no longer accepting practice teams in endurance race. It's been posted on the message board in other threads.

We do our best to take a look at things like is it a new team, how many people are on the team, who is on the team, etc. And then if we're still not sure, we ask them straight out. We emphasize the fact that the grid is limited and it wouldn't be fair to turn away real teams with points if they were just planning on practicing.

For the most part we have to take their word for it. So much for that.

Steve Breen
06-08-2005, 05:11 PM
David,

Until this season, practice teams were not a problem as we have (typically) not had the same grid space issues that we are experiencing now.

There currently is not a formal BoD approved policy (read: in the rulebook) regarding practice teams, but proposals are on the table to address these issues. (What we are doing now in registration is a stop gap measure - a formal policy is most certainly in need.)

Our current success as a club sure brings about some interesting puzzles to solve!

Steve Breen
06-08-2005, 05:11 PM
David,

Until this season, practice teams were not a problem as we have (typically) not had the same grid space issues that we are experiencing now.

There currently is not a formal BoD approved policy (read: in the rulebook) regarding practice teams, but proposals are on the table to address these issues. (What we are doing now in registration is a stop gap measure - a formal policy is most certainly in need.)

Our current success as a club sure brings about some interesting puzzles to solve!

jroberts5407
06-08-2005, 05:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> John, Drive By Racing was not one of the practice teams that I was refering to.
</div></div>Thanks Nancy. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

jroberts5407
06-08-2005, 05:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> John, Drive By Racing was not one of the practice teams that I was refering to.
</div></div>Thanks Nancy. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Troy Green
06-08-2005, 08:27 PM
Steve,

Thank you and the rest of the BOD members for taking the racers needs and the problems of an ever growing club into consideration when making new and/or rewriting old policy.

Thanks again to the true Volunteers (the BOD) for all the hard work you guys put into making the CMRA a successful, Racer friendly Club!

And also thanks to the Paid Staff members for a job well done, even when the job isn't easy!!

Troy Green
Desert-Rats.net #4
CMRA #5

Troy Green
06-08-2005, 08:27 PM
Steve,

Thank you and the rest of the BOD members for taking the racers needs and the problems of an ever growing club into consideration when making new and/or rewriting old policy.

Thanks again to the true Volunteers (the BOD) for all the hard work you guys put into making the CMRA a successful, Racer friendly Club!

And also thanks to the Paid Staff members for a job well done, even when the job isn't easy!!

Troy Green
Desert-Rats.net #4
CMRA #5