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Jason Keene
10-16-2005, 02:02 PM
I have a question regarding the NSR 50 (small wheeled version) in the F7 class... Some of the guys in F7 were discussing something and I figured I'd ask you guys to see what the deal was.

Since the small wheeled NSR50 is water cooled, is the stock displacement legal for Formula 7?

The rule book says the NSR is legal for F6, and F7 water cooled motors are only legal in the YSR chasis...

If it is allowed then what about allowing the air cooled bikes an option for a larger over bore.

Air cooled ysr's and 4 stroke XR motors are at a dis-advantage, even if they are at the maximum allowed overbore, with the current displacement maximums...

Simple example would be in the F7 Endurance class.

With the exception of a mechanical in two events, TEAM Excel ran an average of 3 seconds faster than any other bike in it's class.

This mechanical advantage crossed over to the sprint class...

When you can, let me know... I'm starting a new build and want to explore available options now.

Jason Keene
10-16-2005, 02:02 PM
I have a question regarding the NSR 50 (small wheeled version) in the F7 class... Some of the guys in F7 were discussing something and I figured I'd ask you guys to see what the deal was.

Since the small wheeled NSR50 is water cooled, is the stock displacement legal for Formula 7?

The rule book says the NSR is legal for F6, and F7 water cooled motors are only legal in the YSR chasis...

If it is allowed then what about allowing the air cooled bikes an option for a larger over bore.

Air cooled ysr's and 4 stroke XR motors are at a dis-advantage, even if they are at the maximum allowed overbore, with the current displacement maximums...

Simple example would be in the F7 Endurance class.

With the exception of a mechanical in two events, TEAM Excel ran an average of 3 seconds faster than any other bike in it's class.

This mechanical advantage crossed over to the sprint class...

When you can, let me know... I'm starting a new build and want to explore available options now.

Jason Keene
10-24-2005, 09:25 PM
Anything?

Jason Keene
10-24-2005, 09:25 PM
Anything?

Bill Syfan
10-25-2005, 08:55 AM
Jason,

What are you thinking the displacement and/or modification changes should be?

Bill

Bill Syfan
10-25-2005, 08:55 AM
Jason,

What are you thinking the displacement and/or modification changes should be?

Bill

deadsound
10-25-2005, 10:21 AM
Just my opinion....F7 should be for air cooled only...when the bike that wins the F6 race competes in the F7 race there is no competition…and any YSR with a YSR motor has no chance anymore..I don't care what is done to it....

deadsound
10-25-2005, 10:21 AM
Just my opinion....F7 should be for air cooled only...when the bike that wins the F6 race competes in the F7 race there is no competition…and any YSR with a YSR motor has no chance anymore..I don't care what is done to it....

Jason Keene
10-25-2005, 08:37 PM
Well, as far as displacement for Formula 7, I was thinking 115cc for four stroke air cooled.

Page 22 section 6.2 says that a 55cc water cooled engine is allowed ONLY IN THE YSR CHASIS. It makes no mention of Formula or Superbike rule application.

That is the only mention for a water cooled engine in that class... I was under the impression that Formula 7 was a class that was designed to be an aircooled class. I understand people tinker around so allowing a DT50 motor in a YSR chassis is fine and fun to build.

Back to the original point...

The rule book does say the NSR 50r is legal for Formula 6.
I'm not an expert on the NSR's but it seems to reason that the big wheeled bikes and little wheeled bikes are running the same motor or something so similar they should be classed as such. That bike puts out way more power than a stock YSR or XR 100.

So back to my original question... is the small wheeled NSR 50 legal in F 7?

If so, it does not say it is in the rule book...

Your attention to this matter would be appreciated.

Jason Keene
10-25-2005, 08:37 PM
Well, as far as displacement for Formula 7, I was thinking 115cc for four stroke air cooled.

Page 22 section 6.2 says that a 55cc water cooled engine is allowed ONLY IN THE YSR CHASIS. It makes no mention of Formula or Superbike rule application.

That is the only mention for a water cooled engine in that class... I was under the impression that Formula 7 was a class that was designed to be an aircooled class. I understand people tinker around so allowing a DT50 motor in a YSR chassis is fine and fun to build.

Back to the original point...

The rule book does say the NSR 50r is legal for Formula 6.
I'm not an expert on the NSR's but it seems to reason that the big wheeled bikes and little wheeled bikes are running the same motor or something so similar they should be classed as such. That bike puts out way more power than a stock YSR or XR 100.

So back to my original question... is the small wheeled NSR 50 legal in F 7?

If so, it does not say it is in the rule book...

Your attention to this matter would be appreciated.

David Branyon
10-26-2005, 02:10 AM
Am I following this right? Rulebook says 50cc air-cooled or 50cc water-cooled but only in YSR chassis for F7. BUT... NSRs have been running in F7 w/o DQ. So your question is basically, "Is this going to continue so that F7 is basically a re-run of F6, or will the rules suddenly be enforced next year and the NSR not be allowed in F7?"

Is that the question? If so, I'll add one: does the CMRA wait for someone to protest (like a court, they can't go out and judge a case w/o someone bringing it to them?) or do they actively go out and DQ people for obvious misalignment with class rules?

Only thing I know that is anywhere near to the answer is that I was told a few years back that I was not allowed to run a class I was not legal for, even if I ran it with the understanding I would be DQ'd. (Long story about why.)

I am considering some mini stuff next year and noticed NSRs in the F7 results and was wondering the same thing myself (re: NSR eligibility for F7 and resulting lack of competitiveness of YSRs).

David Branyon
10-26-2005, 02:10 AM
Am I following this right? Rulebook says 50cc air-cooled or 50cc water-cooled but only in YSR chassis for F7. BUT... NSRs have been running in F7 w/o DQ. So your question is basically, "Is this going to continue so that F7 is basically a re-run of F6, or will the rules suddenly be enforced next year and the NSR not be allowed in F7?"

Is that the question? If so, I'll add one: does the CMRA wait for someone to protest (like a court, they can't go out and judge a case w/o someone bringing it to them?) or do they actively go out and DQ people for obvious misalignment with class rules?

Only thing I know that is anywhere near to the answer is that I was told a few years back that I was not allowed to run a class I was not legal for, even if I ran it with the understanding I would be DQ'd. (Long story about why.)

I am considering some mini stuff next year and noticed NSRs in the F7 results and was wondering the same thing myself (re: NSR eligibility for F7 and resulting lack of competitiveness of YSRs).

cedestech
10-26-2005, 07:57 PM
F7:

YSR to 60cc unlimited modifications...

XR100 Superbike rules (I believe, same motor/frame, motor is fair game to 110cc)

Watercooled to 55cc in a YSR chassis (Yerbi)

STOCK NSR50R...

"stock" is 7-8ish hp....

Ya'll should have been doing some protesting if you were in doubt...

BTW: a NSR50R needs quite a bit of breathing on to run up front in F6....

(These are the opinion of Emmett Dibble,
STD Racing F6 endurance champions '04/'05,
owner of a NS50R and NSR50R)

cedestech
10-26-2005, 07:57 PM
F7:

YSR to 60cc unlimited modifications...

XR100 Superbike rules (I believe, same motor/frame, motor is fair game to 110cc)

Watercooled to 55cc in a YSR chassis (Yerbi)

STOCK NSR50R...

"stock" is 7-8ish hp....

Ya'll should have been doing some protesting if you were in doubt...

BTW: a NSR50R needs quite a bit of breathing on to run up front in F6....

(These are the opinion of Emmett Dibble,
STD Racing F6 endurance champions '04/'05,
owner of a NS50R and NSR50R)

David Branyon
10-26-2005, 10:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
F7:

YSR to 60cc unlimited modifications...

XR100 Superbike rules (I believe, same motor/frame, motor is fair game to 110cc)

Watercooled to 55cc in a YSR chassis (Yerbi)

STOCK NSR50R...

"stock" is 7-8ish hp....

Ya'll should have been doing some protesting if you were in doubt...

BTW: a NSR50R needs quite a bit of breathing on to run up front in F6....

(These are the opinion of Emmett Dibble,
STD Racing F6 endurance champions '04/'05,
owner of a NS50R and NSR50R) </div></div>Emmett,
No disrespect here or anything of that sort as I understand you to be VERY knowledgeable on the subject of minis, I'm just looking for clarification.

Where you have listed "STOCK NSR50R..." above, is that to be included in the above heading of "F7" or is it a separate topic? My reading of the rulebook says only up to 55cc watercooled 2-stroke in YSR chassis only, so I take it the NSR50R is not legal for F7. And I think that's what you said, I'm just not completely clear.

Thanks!

p.s. does a stock YSR have drum or disc front brake?

David Branyon
10-26-2005, 10:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
F7:

YSR to 60cc unlimited modifications...

XR100 Superbike rules (I believe, same motor/frame, motor is fair game to 110cc)

Watercooled to 55cc in a YSR chassis (Yerbi)

STOCK NSR50R...

"stock" is 7-8ish hp....

Ya'll should have been doing some protesting if you were in doubt...

BTW: a NSR50R needs quite a bit of breathing on to run up front in F6....

(These are the opinion of Emmett Dibble,
STD Racing F6 endurance champions '04/'05,
owner of a NS50R and NSR50R) </div></div>Emmett,
No disrespect here or anything of that sort as I understand you to be VERY knowledgeable on the subject of minis, I'm just looking for clarification.

Where you have listed "STOCK NSR50R..." above, is that to be included in the above heading of "F7" or is it a separate topic? My reading of the rulebook says only up to 55cc watercooled 2-stroke in YSR chassis only, so I take it the NSR50R is not legal for F7. And I think that's what you said, I'm just not completely clear.

Thanks!

p.s. does a stock YSR have drum or disc front brake?

David Branyon
10-26-2005, 10:16 PM
Actual rulebook text re: F7 is:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Formula 7 (No Expert/Novice differentiation)
60cc 2-stroke air-cooled, Formula rules
55cc 2-stroke water-cooled, YSR chassis only
110cc 4-stroke air-cooled, Formula rules
No GP Chassis in entire class
Among the eligible machines are YSR60cc Superbike, water-cooled 50cc motor in YSR chassis,
YSR with XR100 motor, XR100 Superbike</div></div>

David Branyon
10-26-2005, 10:16 PM
Actual rulebook text re: F7 is:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Formula 7 (No Expert/Novice differentiation)
60cc 2-stroke air-cooled, Formula rules
55cc 2-stroke water-cooled, YSR chassis only
110cc 4-stroke air-cooled, Formula rules
No GP Chassis in entire class
Among the eligible machines are YSR60cc Superbike, water-cooled 50cc motor in YSR chassis,
YSR with XR100 motor, XR100 Superbike</div></div>

cedestech
10-27-2005, 05:46 AM
The NSR505R didn't make it into the actual printing of the rule book last year and that is
were there was some confusion.

That was from memory but you got the jist.

Not a sugestion. Any NSR50R in F7 was supposed to
be BOX STOCK. You could change gearing,jets and
add a air filter. That was it.

I bought 2 brand new NSR's last year and I assure you a STOCK NSR fits into the class well.

You can do a whole lot of modifications with out
being able to tell from the out side.

There are a ton of them (new NSR50Rs) out there and it is a dirt cheap (as far as racing goes)
way to race your but off.

They have to go some where and a BOX STOCK one
does fit the performance index of F7.

(just opinions, no interest one way or the other,
not competing in the class or now anyone else who is)

cedestech
10-27-2005, 05:46 AM
The NSR505R didn't make it into the actual printing of the rule book last year and that is
were there was some confusion.

That was from memory but you got the jist.

Not a sugestion. Any NSR50R in F7 was supposed to
be BOX STOCK. You could change gearing,jets and
add a air filter. That was it.

I bought 2 brand new NSR's last year and I assure you a STOCK NSR fits into the class well.

You can do a whole lot of modifications with out
being able to tell from the out side.

There are a ton of them (new NSR50Rs) out there and it is a dirt cheap (as far as racing goes)
way to race your but off.

They have to go some where and a BOX STOCK one
does fit the performance index of F7.

(just opinions, no interest one way or the other,
not competing in the class or now anyone else who is)

Dirk Anderson
10-27-2005, 01:48 PM
There was a protest that was going to be entered at the first race of the season at Oak Hill and CMRA representatives said:
The NSR (with a water cooled 50CC engine) addendum had not been entered into the rule book yet and because they are basically replacing the YSR's the CMRA will allow it to run in Formula7.

Even though the rulebook clearly stated it had to be in a YSR chassis.

Dirk Anderson
10-27-2005, 01:48 PM
There was a protest that was going to be entered at the first race of the season at Oak Hill and CMRA representatives said:
The NSR (with a water cooled 50CC engine) addendum had not been entered into the rule book yet and because they are basically replacing the YSR's the CMRA will allow it to run in Formula7.

Even though the rulebook clearly stated it had to be in a YSR chassis.

Jason Keene
10-27-2005, 08:28 PM
Thanks for your opinions...

Until I see it in writing or hear a decision from the BOD, well let's just say I'd like to hear from the BOD.

OH yeah, David to answer your question...

Disc front.

Jason Keene
10-27-2005, 08:28 PM
Thanks for your opinions...

Until I see it in writing or hear a decision from the BOD, well let's just say I'd like to hear from the BOD.

OH yeah, David to answer your question...

Disc front.

tinman
11-01-2005, 10:55 PM
Emmett, we did go talk to the officials after the first race. And like Dirk said, since it didnt say exactly that they couldnt be in the F7 class......Even though they were beating the F6 class we were told they would have to figure it out in the offseason since they were already running in F7 kinda legally.

tinman
11-01-2005, 10:55 PM
Emmett, we did go talk to the officials after the first race. And like Dirk said, since it didnt say exactly that they couldnt be in the F7 class......Even though they were beating the F6 class we were told they would have to figure it out in the offseason since they were already running in F7 kinda legally.

David Branyon
02-04-2006, 04:55 PM
TTT. So where'd this end? I checked the new rule book and it still says no water-cooled 50cc 2-stroke in F7; in fact, only change seems to be that the 55cc water-cooled engine in the YSR chassis is no longer allowed in F7. But the word on the street (see above) is that it is supposed to be allowed. Could a BOD member just post up and confirm whether the NSR (or other water-cooled 50cc 2-strokes) will be allowed in F7 or not?

2006 rulebook section:
-----
Formula 7 (No Expert/Novice differentiation)
60cc 2-stroke air-cooled, Formula rules
110cc 4-stroke air-cooled, Formula rules
No GP Chassis in entire class
Among the eligible machines are YSR60cc Superbike, YSR with XR100 motor, XR100 Superbike
------
Thanks,

David Branyon
02-04-2006, 04:55 PM
TTT. So where'd this end? I checked the new rule book and it still says no water-cooled 50cc 2-stroke in F7; in fact, only change seems to be that the 55cc water-cooled engine in the YSR chassis is no longer allowed in F7. But the word on the street (see above) is that it is supposed to be allowed. Could a BOD member just post up and confirm whether the NSR (or other water-cooled 50cc 2-strokes) will be allowed in F7 or not?

2006 rulebook section:
-----
Formula 7 (No Expert/Novice differentiation)
60cc 2-stroke air-cooled, Formula rules
110cc 4-stroke air-cooled, Formula rules
No GP Chassis in entire class
Among the eligible machines are YSR60cc Superbike, YSR with XR100 motor, XR100 Superbike
------
Thanks,

Walter Walker
02-04-2006, 11:21 PM
Formula 7 will be for air cooled bikes only in 06.

Walter Walker
02-04-2006, 11:21 PM
Formula 7 will be for air cooled bikes only in 06.

David Branyon
02-05-2006, 06:51 PM
Thanks for the quick response and confirmation Walter!

David Branyon
02-05-2006, 06:51 PM
Thanks for the quick response and confirmation Walter!