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Thread: Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

  1. #1

    Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

    As I understand it the endurance grids for the start of the season are determined by order of entry, with three waves broken into heavyweight, middleweight and ligthweight bikes. If that's wrong, ignore the rest of this post [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

    So, let's take our brethern Faltless Racing for example ... they typically finish races 5th overall or so on a lightweight bike, but yet at the first race of the season they are gridded in the 3rd wave of bikes at the endurance race?? Hmm...

    Well, in light of the close finishes we've had this year in the endurance races, these 20-30 secs that a team gives away at the start of such a race could actually factor into the results at the end of a 6 hour race!

    How about this (just an idea to get things moving):

    The top X teams regardless of bike size grid by overall finishing position from the previous season and then the gridding is done by order of entry.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Re: Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Steve Breen:
    The top X teams regardless of bike size grid by overall finishing position from the previous season and then the gridding is done by order of entry.

    Thoughts?
    </div></div>You trying to make my life difficult? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

    How would this affect future class finishes?

    For example, Faltless finishes with in the cutoff, but no other light weight teams qualify for a first wave grid position. Then all of Faltless' class competitors will be starting from the 3rd wave. Now we've given Faltless a head start.

    Seems like potentially less teams are affected if we leave it the way it is.

  3. #3

    Re: Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Derek Delpero:
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Steve Breen:
    The top X teams regardless of bike size grid by overall finishing position from the previous season and then the gridding is done by order of entry.

    Thoughts?
    </div></div>You trying to make my life difficult? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

    How would this affect future class finishes?

    For example, Faltless finishes with in the cutoff, but no other light weight teams qualify for a first wave grid position. Then all of Faltless' class competitors will be starting from the 3rd wave. Now we've given Faltless a head start.

    Seems like potentially less teams are affected if we leave it the way it is.
    </div></div>Well, while I used Faltless as an example, naturally I have an agenda [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

    But why not reward those guyz? They do amazing things on an SV and they finish way up the order overall by the end of the day, so they've earned that advantage IMO.

    If you consider the deficit that a middleweight team (ok, us) has for that first race, it's not inconsequential - especially given how close our races can be at the end of 6 hours.

    Gridding by points for the first race gives some credit to teams that spent time and money achieving something the previous year.

  4. #4

    Re: Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

    What about a team that is new for 2004?

    Not very fair to give someone else a head start just becuase they ran the year before.

    No solution would truly be fair for all, except heat races for the first grids...

    and don't even mention it [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

  5. #5

    Re: Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bryan Norton:
    What about a team that is new for 2004?</div></div>Teams that retain their single digit numbers according to the prior year's resuls?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Not very fair to give someone else a head start just becuase they ran the year before.
    </div></div>Heya Brian -- I hear ya on that one ... I guess I would say if we are gonna do order of entry, let's go all the way with that notion and mix the different displacement bikes all together from the first to the third (or whatever) wave -- that would be more "fair" than penalizing teams that are running "smaller" bikes, no?

    I originally offered up the top 10 (or so) idea cause I believe I understood the original notion of defining the waves by bike displacement was for safety purposes. But honestly I can't see much validity with that approach since the endurance grids for the rest of the year are according to points anyway.

    So, what about order of entry across the board?

    That would be easy on Derek and the crew I would think.

  6. #6

    Re: Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

    IMO, the only unfair advantage here would be letting a team entering a certain class start at the front of the grid based soley on the class they are entering. If you say that letting a certain number of teams start in the first wave of the first race is unfair just because they finished top (x) the previous year, isn't that sorta like saying griding up based on the previous race's results is biased as well? I'm sure this is all based on safety, but I'm betting that if we changed changed the 1st race grid policy to an (order of entry only), the faster more commited teams would enter first.

  7. #7
    Senior Member John Orchard's Avatar
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    Re: Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

    Order of entry for the endurance would be very cool!
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  8. #8

    Re: Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

    I don't care if a light weight bike finishes
    first overall every race. Their race is not with the heavy weight class. Their race is with the
    light weight class. The classes should be grouped
    together with the first race determined on
    entry recieved then points the rest of the year.
    2-3 rows verses 30 seconds for 2 waves down
    is fair. How would you feel if you were
    the 2nd place light weight team and lost by 20 seconds when first place basicly got a defacto
    30 second head start.

    Nice idea though.

  9. #9

    Re: Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

    "I don't care if a light weight bike finishes
    first overall every race. Their race is not with the heavy weight class. Their race is with the
    light weight class."

    I guess that depends on how slow they are. Faltless is gunnin for an overall podium every race they enter IMO. The serious teams, even though they are on smaller bikes, are not just racing for a class win.

  10. #10
    Senior Member John Orchard's Avatar
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    Re: Grid Positions for First Endurance Race of the year

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
    ...Their race is not with the heavy weight class. Their race is with the
    light weight class...
    </div></div>So, Emmett, if each class is only racing against itself, as you say, then why would you stop gridding by class after the first race?

    The overall race is won by multiple classes, and is just as important to many teams if not more important than the class race. (SB is not one of these teams btw! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] )
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