Law-enforcement involvement at the track

[Walter Walker]

It does help explain the CMRAs view Walter and I am aware of section 5.2 as I stated before I'm aware of investigations of death or what could be a death. My concerns are what else they decide to do while there.

My disgruntlement comes from past experience with law enforcement, maybe I'm simply unlucky but LEOs have been far from cordial with me. Although the coolest one I ever met actually tazed me twice. And the most polite one was the guy who pulled me over because I matched the description of a murder suspect. Aside from those two though it's always been accusations, and all the other crap you hear about.

I think I have the title to one of 6 bikes. I found the bill of sale to one of my old pit bikes and it was written on a piece notebook paper. Not very convincing for a motor vehicle and disgruntled LEO having a bad day.

We will probably see differently on the 4th amendment subject Walter but it doesn't matter what you or any other person thinks I'm hiding or not, they are my rights guaranteed to me by congress and I don't have to yield because I have nothing to hide and someone's just trying to do their job. If nobody has anything to hide Walter we could all live in glass houses If no one has anything to hide the CMRA should have no problem opening the books to its members, publishing the minutes of meetings, or allowing the paying membership access to the officials only section of the forum to see how these elected officials act the decisions they make. Hell those aren't even constitutional rights, It's rules made up by said officials.

Dennis,

I'm glad that my explanation helped.

I am sorry that you've had a tough time with LEOs. Maybe you are unlucky in that respect.

I guess I'm in the minority here. I have never purchased a motor bike without a title and or bill of sale. I have also run VIN and engine numbers to verify that things are not stolen. I have a 93 CBR900RR race bike that has a blank frame. I have a copy of the original title and the purchase receipt for the frame. This bike was built from pieces and parts so the engine number does not match the title. I had a friend at the local PD run the engine number to make sure it was clean and clear. He actually wrote me a letter stating that he had run the engine number and that it was clean. The time spent to gather information and documentation is time well spent IMHO.

Dennis, I fully understand my 4th amendment rights along with all of the rights that are guaranteed me by our Constitution. I'm thankful for those rights but I don't carry them around like a chip on my shoulder. I choose not to debate my rights just for the sake of debate. If I feel like at any point my Constitutional rights are being violated by a LEO or anyone else in authority then I will proudly argue the point and I would hope that you would do the same.

I have to be honest, you lost me with glass houses comment. As for the CMRAs books they have always been open to the membership, all you have to do is make an appointment with the CPA. We really do need to do a better job of posting the meeting minutes, I'll admit that. If you want access to the BoD page on the message board then you should run for the BoD and get elected. I know that sounds a bit facetious but that's an honest answer. The BoD, myself, and Nancy communicate through the private BoD page, Email, text, and by phone. Do you think that the general membership should have access to all of that? I certainly don't.

[Dennis King]

I have bills of sale from everything at least but how believable are they? They're a piece of paper that anyone can create.

The glass house comment is in reference to your "if you have nothing to hide , why can't they look" comment. I was insinuating if you have nothing to hide why does anyone need privacy.

What is the information for the CPA? And why can't the information be posted or sent through the news letter? I found a great thing from the RRWAF that showed all of the income and the itemized expenditures for the action fund letting the public know where their donations were going. Why can't something similar be shown to the members of the membership club?

And also why shouldn't the members be allowed to see what the board discusses? I do think emails and texts would be difficult and time consuming to be dispersed to the membership. But it doesn't take anything to allow the paying members to see the other sections of this forum. What do the officials and BoD discuss that the the paying members shouldn't see?

[Mitch Williams]

Careful.....you're in lunatic territory. ;)

[Dennis King]

Careful.....you're in lunatic territory. ;)

Did you bring tinfoil? All I can find nowadays is aluminium.

[Mitch Williams]

I carry three rolls in the trailer.

[Rodrigo DaCunha]

Very good thread here.
After reading all the posts, I came to a conclusion which from now on I will have a notarized photo copy of all my toy's titles or bill of sale with me at all times to avoid being harassed by the LEO's on the way to track or already there.
This will be item #1 on my track list because like Dennis, I'm not the most lucky one neither when interacting with COP's and they make me feel like I'm guilty until I prove myself innocent and not the other way around. Must be my accent...
I don't have anything to hide but based on my personal experiences and what you guys are describing it's the most logical thing to do. Be always prepared for the worst. I'm glad this subject was brought up. It's like preparing to go out of the country... I always make a photocopy of all the contents of my wallet and passport, visa, ID and etc incase something bad happens.

CMRA# 672

[Chris Coffey]

Do I have to prove my bikes aren't stolen or do they have to prove they are?

[Dennis King]

Do I have to prove my bikes aren't stolen or do they have to prove they are?

Well the 14th amendment, upheld by Coffin v United States would say innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Real life tells us otherwise.

[Walter Walker]

Do I have to prove my bikes aren't stolen or do they have to prove they are?

You decide.....

Texas Penal Code - Section 31.11. Tampering With Identification Numbers

§ 31.11. TAMPERING WITH IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS. (a) A
person commits an offense if the person:
(1) knowingly or intentionally removes, alters, or
obliterates the serial number or other permanent identification
marking on tangible personal property; or
(2) possesses, sells, or offers for sale tangible
personal property and:
(A) the actor knows that the serial number or
other permanent identification marking has been removed, altered,
or obliterated; or
(B) a reasonable person in the position of the
actor would have known that the serial number or other permanent
identification marking has been removed, altered, or obliterated.
(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the person was:
(1) the owner or acting with the effective consent of
the owner of the property involved;
(2) a peace officer acting in the actual discharge of
official duties; or
(3) acting with respect to a number assigned to a
vehicle by the Texas Department of Transportation and the person
was:
(A) in the actual discharge of official duties as
an employee or agent of the department; or
(B) in full compliance with the rules of the
department as an applicant for an assigned number approved by the
department.
(c) Property involved in a violation of this section may be
treated as stolen for purposes of custody and disposition of the
property.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) In this section, "vehicle" has the meaning given by
Section 541.201, Transportation Code.

[Walter Walker]

I have bills of sale from everything at least but how believable are they? They're a piece of paper that anyone can create.

The glass house comment is in reference to your "if you have nothing to hide , why can't they look" comment. I was insinuating if you have nothing to hide why does anyone need privacy.

What is the information for the CPA? And why can't the information be posted or sent through the news letter? I found a great thing from the RRWAF that showed all of the income and the itemized expenditures for the action fund letting the public know where their donations were going. Why can't something similar be shown to the members of the membership club?

And also why shouldn't the members be allowed to see what the board discusses? I do think emails and texts would be difficult and time consuming to be dispersed to the membership. But it doesn't take anything to allow the paying members to see the other sections of this forum. What do the officials and BoD discuss that the the paying members shouldn't see?

Then I would put those in a folder and carry them with you when you transport those bikes. It cant hurt.

I got it now. On the flip side, do you automatically assume that everyone is doing something wrong? Man I would hate to feel like that. I feel sorry for people like that. All those black helicopters buzzing around must get pretty annoying.

Give Nancy a call on Tuesday and she can get you set up with our CPAs info. I think a public version of the finances should and has be available to the general membership but the detailed information if made public would be a road map to success for anyone who wanted to try and compete with us in our own back yard. No successful business would ever make that kind of info public. The CMRA and the RRWAF are to totally different business types so you cant make a fair comparison IMHO.

Our discussions on the private forum contain much of the same information that I just explained above. That's why its private.