NOVICE TO EXPERT PROMOTIONS FOR 2019!!

[Dennis King]

So, if I'm understanding this right, this highlights the problem we have. So you are saying that there was an incentive for you as a Novice...that's great. Would you agree that upon being promoted to Expert, you reduced your participation because contingency wasn't as readily available? I think what you are saying is that you would not have competed as a Novice if incentives weren't available?

Moving contingency rewards from Novice to Expert would encourage people to self-promote and move individuals forward in their riding and ultimately a bigger challenge. This is what we want - riders getting better and having increased incentives as they progress in their riding.

Right now, we have Slow Novice (not winning contingency) to Fast Novice (winning contingency) to Slow Expert (not winning contingency) to Fast Expert (winning contingency) with an uneven spread of opportunity as you progress. If incentives is a primary reason for someone to compete, I can see why people would quit as soon as they get their Expert plate.

A problem is you have a huge gap between expert and EXPERT. a person newly promoted to expert is racing against people who have been racing for years and are stupid fast. Let's pick on you, your fastest lap in ULWGP was 1:53, Jay ran a 1:46 that's huge you placed 9th. In D you ran a 1:47, Whitten ran a 1:44 again, huge. There's nothing you can do with traditional contingency to get someone to want to be an expert. You can be a fast novice in a year or two and collect, I don't recall any people who promoted to expert and were collecting contingency off the bat. Contingency, historically, is given to people who place well, and that's not easy to do when a new expert is going against people who have been racing at that level for years or decades. I know it's not easy when trying to determine how to pay out money but there's no real answer, Dirk Anderson and 212 Decals took good a stab at it by paying out randomly to the expert class they sponsored, so the only requirement was be an expert and race.

[Rab McNaught]

A problem is you have a huge gap between expert and EXPERT. a person newly promoted to expert is racing against people who have been racing for years and are stupid fast. Let's pick on you, your fastest lap in ULWGP was 1:53, Jay ran a 1:46 that's huge you placed 9th. In D you ran a 1:47, Whitten ran a 1:44 again, huge. There's nothing you can do with traditional contingency to get someone to want to be an expert. You can be a fast novice in a year or two and collect, I don't recall any people who promoted to expert and were collecting contingency off the bat. Contingency, historically, is given to people who place well, and that's not easy to do when a new expert is going against people who have been racing at that level for years or decades. I know it's not easy when trying to determine how to pay out money but there's no real answer, Dirk Anderson and 212 Decals took good a stab at it by paying out randomly to the expert class they sponsored, so the only requirement was be an expert and race.

Dammmnit, I’m really slow.

[Michael Snyder]

My opinion only, not that it carries any weight and won't be very popular but hey I ain't scared to say it.....

It is my belief that Walter , Ryan, Jeff and Ted should be the voice of the promotion list. These 4 guys specifically keep an eye on each race and racer. Ryan knows exactly who crashes and why, Ted sees everything from race control and keeps track of all, Jeff gets watch every race and racer during starts, finishes and in between and well Walter is our race director with eyes and ears on everything.

Not sure why the BOD, the business side of the house has a final say. Sure they know people and race and see things that happen but the first 4 are intimate with each detail of every race and racer.

There should be a mandatory "you are now an expert" and a "if you want to" list

We elect the BOD to run the business and take care of the organization not micro manage the racers. Not to say new ideas aren't needed for retention and ultimate survivability. Worrying about what contingincies are available to whom will have no effect and a racers time limit in the organization in my opinion.



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[John McKenzie]

While we are on the topic of this, something that might be a bit more controversial.

What if we removed the Expert/Novice distinction all together?

Now hear me out and I'm sorry if this has been beaten to death already but I couldn't find anything in a quick search.

Is the Expert/Novice split used in other racing organizations around the world? I'm not sure about the club level around the world honestly. However, if we didn't have the Expert/Novice split; it seems like we could reduce the number of races and have qualifying for major classes and use lap times to be the deciding factor for any given weekend. Something more like pro-level racing with a cut-off based on lap times.

We could have races for those that didn't make the cut or new riders to give everyone an opportunity to race, but it would give new and slower riders something to work toward. I hope this makes sense and obviously there are issues to figure out with it, but it seems like to me that we are fairly unique here in the U.S. with our Expert/Novice split based on my (limited) experience. I didn't come up with this idea and it's been discussed by others with far more experience than me.

Maybe the Expert/Novice split made more sense when the grids were packed across many classes, but those days seem to be long gone.

Just food for thought!

[Scott Giarratano]

If I want to allow Hayden to give MotoAmerica Jr Cup a shot in 2019 my understanding is that he has to be "expert".... so I guess I'm going to have to follow the process and request a promotion....

[dean webster]

If I want to allow Hayden to give MotoAmerica Jr Cup a shot in 2019 my understanding is that he has to be "expert".... so I guess I'm going to have to follow the process and request a promotion....

I don't think you'll have to request a bump for Hayden. 12 consecutive wins will do it.

[Carter Rossner]

While we are on the topic of this, something that might be a bit more controversial.

What if we removed the Expert/Novice distinction all together?

Is the Expert/Novice split used in other racing organizations around the world? I'm not sure about the club level around the world honestly.
[...]
I hope this makes sense and obviously there are issues to figure out with it, but it seems like to me that we are fairly unique here in the U.S. with our Expert/Novice split based on my (limited) experience. I didn't come up with this idea and it's been discussed by others with far more experience than me.

Interesting... I'm not aware of an amateur club in the U.S. that does not have a novice/amateur and expert classification system. WERA has them, CCS has them, even smaller series like the LRRS and WMRRA all have them. All major American roadracing events - MotoAmerica, Pikes Peak, even the Baja I think, require expert licenses.

[John McKenzie]

Yeah the "expert" thing in American racing beyond the club level may be the problem with that idea. I was mainly thinking of other countries when I brought it up. Specifically how we seem to have trouble from some sponsors for Novice racers.

[Keith Hertell]

I don't think they have expert/novice at all in most of the world.

I think the reason expert/novice was implemented in the US was when there were huge grids in the 60's. It was to keep the slower racers from interfering with the faster National racers.

Also they only give points to 15th place. However they do keep track of your overall position for the year, even if you never score a point. That way just scoring a point is a big deal.

[Michael De Simone]

Riders should be promoted to expert as soon as they are ready in my opinion, and the incentives should be there for them when they are promoted, just like they are as a novice. Novice should be seen as a stepping stone to Expert.

What is ready? Is someone that finished in front of 3 people that didn't crash, across 20 races all season ready to be an expert? Who was more that 10 seconds off the pace of mid pack experts ready?

Just my opinion but:
This shouldn't be a choice. We should promote them based on a different format than we currently use. Our current format doesn't factor in all variables when promoting certain novices. Adjust the formula, the board should discuss the individuals being promoted, and take a vote.

Why do you think the board would make the right decision? Last year they tried to promote the person I'm describing above.