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Thread: NOVICE TO EXPERT PROMOTIONS FOR 2019!!

  1. #11
    Administrator Walter Walker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Coles View Post
    I guess my question would be how will sandbagging be policed? Do the other novices just have to complain? As long as there is contingency money on the line there will always be at least a few people who look at it and ask "win some money as a novice, or probably dont win anything as an expert?" and choose to remain novice. And while I would argue just putting all the dollars in expert and paying further down the order would be the real fix, as long as money is there for novices it would be nice for it to remain as fair as possible.
    We will be compiling a list of riders that are eligible for promotion to Expert. If we feel that someone is obviously trying to stay a Novice then we will intervene.

    Unfortunately the contingency providers decide where they put their contingency dollars not us.
    Walter Walker
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    (NOT mean and unapproachable)

  2. #12
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    I'd like to be promoted to junior race director. I don't see you binning that Ruckus very often. Looks minimally safer but I'd like to give it a try.
    Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination.
    Racing support: The Metric Garage

  3. #13
    Senior Member Jim Dugger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Walker View Post
    Unfortunately the contingency providers decide where they put their contingency dollars not us.
    I wholeheartedly disagree with this. I know it's an old debate, and one that's been had many times, but the club does have tremendous opportunity to influence the eligibility of novice riders for contingency.
    CMRA Expert #101
    EBR 1190RX, Large BGE

  4. #14
    Senior Member Jason Chahin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Caruso View Post
    I'd like to be promoted to junior race director. I don't see you binning that Ruckus very often. Looks minimally safer but I'd like to give it a try.
    LOL!

  5. #15
    Senior Member Heinz Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Chahin View Post
    LOL!
    Don't encourage him Jason. He's in a power hungry mode.

    Heinz Roy
    Novice #458 | BTO Racing #58 (Mini Endurance)
    Not a complete idiot, some parts are on backorder.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Roy View Post
    Don't encourage him Jason. He's in a power hungry mode.

    Yes, because the ultimate power in the universe is the BoD?

    "I find your lack of faith in the CMRA troubling..."
    Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Rab McNaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Coles View Post
    I guess my question would be how will sandbagging be policed? Do the other novices just have to complain? As long as there is contingency money on the line there will always be at least a few people who look at it and ask "win some money as a novice, or probably dont win anything as an expert?" and choose to remain novice. And while I would argue just putting all the dollars in expert and paying further down the order would be the real fix, as long as money is there for novices it would be nice for it to remain as fair as possible.
    I'm with you here. For the folks that do sandbag, they never remain in the sport once they become expert - we have seen repeated examples of this, and it's not healthy for the sport. I've always been of the opinion that Expert promotions, based on eligibility should not be protested. Laptimes here is probably the best indicator, as opposed to something which is impacted heavily by grid numbers (the current rider index system).

    I'm interested to see if anyone slips through the cracks next year. Those that are fast enough to run with experts know when they are - get yourself promoted.

    Also agree with Dugger that offering significant contingency rewards encouraging sandbagging is not in the best interests of the sport. While it's true that we can't control vendors, we can still discourage it. I'm not saying that there should not be any rewards available for Novice competitors, but it clearly is bad when there is an incentive to remain Novice when they are fast enough to compete safely in Expert.

    We have an issue with folks quitting when they become Expert, or significantly reducing their level of participation. If more incentives were available to Experts, I think we would keep more people in the sport, particularly in that first couple of years as an expert, which are challenging.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Josh Henke's Avatar
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    .02 - I wouldn't have even competed in 3 rounds my novice year if not for the contingency. It was the difference of that ~$250/round (and a shoestring budget) that permitted me to compete in every round.
    Provisional Expert #98

  9. #19
    Senior Member Heinz Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Caruso View Post
    Yes, because the ultimate power in the universe is the BoD?

    "I find your lack of faith in the CMRA troubling..."
    Hey...I voted for you. One of my lack of better judgement moments. But, I have LOTS of those. Love ya Joe!

    Now, cue Walter...."can't you take this somewhere else? Off my thread!" Sorry Walter.
    Heinz Roy
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Rab McNaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Henke View Post
    .02 - I wouldn't have even competed in 3 rounds my novice year if not for the contingency. It was the difference of that ~$250/round (and a shoestring budget) that permitted me to compete in every round.
    So, if I'm understanding this right, this highlights the problem we have. So you are saying that there was an incentive for you as a Novice...that's great. Would you agree that upon being promoted to Expert, you reduced your participation because contingency wasn't as readily available? I think what you are saying is that you would not have competed as a Novice if incentives weren't available?

    Moving contingency rewards from Novice to Expert would encourage people to self-promote and move individuals forward in their riding and ultimately a bigger challenge. This is what we want - riders getting better and having increased incentives as they progress in their riding.

    Right now, we have Slow Novice (not winning contingency) to Fast Novice (winning contingency) to Slow Expert (not winning contingency) to Fast Expert (winning contingency) with an uneven spread of opportunity as you progress. If incentives is a primary reason for someone to compete, I can see why people would quit as soon as they get their Expert plate.

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