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Thread: Fridays with 3:16 Trackdays

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  1. #1

    Fridays with 3:16 Trackdays

    Hello Everyone,

    The format will be changed for Fridays, we consulted with our Mentors (many are racers) and JC Camacho has prepared a description video to go over it.

    https://youtu.be/5vYcSVO2g-0

    Summary

    $150 - Pre Registration
    $185 - 10 Days Before

    4 Groups with LOWER lap times for "advanced" Groups ... more info in the video

    Beginner
    Experienced (Min Lap times) 2:17 MSRH , 1:37 MSRC
    Advanced Lightweight 1:57 MSRH , 1:37 MSRC
    Advanced Big Bike 1:53 MSRH, 1:28 MSRC

    Minimum lap times taken from "lapper" paces during 2 wave races

    We know this is a "CHANGE" and won't be for everyone but will fit more people than less.

    God Bless,

    Ignacio and May

  2. #2
    Senior Member Josh Henke's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. I’ll have to watch the vid, but I do wonder what will be considered a big bike. And those minimum lap times are surely going to have to come down. A 1:53 at MSRH is crazy slow for even an “advanced” lightweight bike (e.g SV650).
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    Based on the video, doesn't seem practical to have a 1/2 day practice since the slow groups are 3/2 (morning/afternoon) and the fast group(s) are 2/3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Henke View Post
    Thanks for the info. I’ll have to watch the vid, but I do wonder what will be considered a big bike. And those minimum lap times are surely going to have to come down. A 1:53 at MSRH is crazy slow for even an “advanced” lightweight bike (e.g SV650).
    For reference, Trey ran a 1:41 on his SV this past weekend
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    Senior Member Kyle Coles's Avatar
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    Those lap times have to be adjusted down. Those times for the "advanced big bikes" would encompass almost every single big bike novice and expert racer.

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    Senior Member Kasey Lewis's Avatar
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    Feel free to double check me on this, but historically at MSRH 40-50% of the "fast group" practice at 43s and below, the other half are 46-51 on average. Going through the data on race monitor for practice. And as i understand it, 3:16 is doing trackdays, not race practice. Track time will be available for racers, but much like any member day or trackday you do, you'll need to play nice with the other riders. That's what i've gathered from Ignacio and the video posted. Trackday. I'll be riding and watching the format to see how things go.

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    Administrator Walter Walker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey Lewis View Post
    And as i understand it, 3:16 is doing trackdays, not race practice. Track time will be available for racers, but much like any member day or trackday you do, you'll need to play nice with the other riders. That's what i've gathered from Ignacio and the video posted. Trackday. I'll be riding and watching the format to see how things go.
    This is exactly right.

    The simple truth is that not enough racers are signing up for Friday racer practice. We’ve only managed a break even at a few events this season for Friday practice. This is not sustainable so obviously a change had to be made. The CMRA is not in the trackday business. We are not set up to offer track time to trackday only riders and this is what makes trackdays financially viable. 3:16 is and hopefully they will be able to make it work for all involved.

    As Kasey noted racers will have to learn to play nice with the non racers. This will help grow the sport by exposing these folks to racing. Bring in new racers is a key part of this format.
    Last edited by Walter Walker; 11-12-2021 at 11:38 AM.
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  7. #7
    "The simple truth is that not enough racers are signing up for Friday racer practice."

    Then we need to find out why and communicate with the members why so remedy could be proposed. Is this the first time this has happened in CMRA history? What was the original reason LSTD took over? They did a great job and I realize they are no longer operating track days, but would have been a good formula point to consider for future Friday practice operations.

    How did this process to make this Friday change come about? Was there a board meeting and a vote? Were there several vendors that offered proposals and then considered and voted upon? I do not want to be difficult, but I feel like this was introduced and I was surprised (maybe I missed a post or meeting and I sincerely mean that). I realize that if we do not have the money to operate the Friday day, this was an emergency to make happen properly for 2022 for planning reasons. I think we need to issue a survey to find out why participation is low so that data can be worked on in the future and mitigated. Thank you, Brandie Cox
    Last edited by Brandie Cox; 11-16-2021 at 09:39 AM.

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    Administrator Walter Walker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandie Cox View Post
    "The simple truth is that not enough racers are signing up for Friday racer practice."

    Then we need to find out why and communicate with the members why so remedy could be proposed. Is this the first time this has happened in CMRA history? What was the original reason LSTD took over? They did a great job and I realize they are no longer operating track days, but would have been a good formula point to consider for future Friday practice operations.
    Friday practice numbers have been in a steady decline over the last 3 seasons (removing 2020 for obvious reasons). We had 120-130 total riders on Friday with most doing a full day in 2017. This season our best was 100 at the August MSR round with about half doing half day practice. The second best turnout this season was 85 with around half doing half day practice. Unfortunately expenses have done nothing but go up. Track rent, ambulances, marshals, porta-johns, insurance, fuel, travel costs, etc. have all steadily increased every year. A fluctuating economy has been the primary factor in the decline. Hobbies are the first thing to go when household finances get tight.

    Most in this discussion don't know that LSTD ran the Friday practice from 2006-2016. Before that CMRA ran 2 day events.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandie Cox View Post
    How did this process to make this Friday change come about? Was there a board meeting and a vote? Were there several vendors that offered proposals and then considered and voted upon? I do not want to be difficult, but I feel like this was introduced and I was surprised (maybe I missed a post or meeting and I sincerely mean that). I realize that if we do not have the money to operate the Friday day, this was an emergency to make happen properly for 2022 for planning reasons. I think we need to issue a survey to find out why participation is low so that data can be worked on in the future and mitigated. Thank you, Brandie Cox
    The BoD has discussed this at length. The decision was made at the recommendation of the finance committee. The bottom line is we cannot continue to operate the Friday at a breakeven and or loss.

    To be clear a break even event is actually a loss as it does not cover the CMRAs monthly overhead.
    Walter Walker
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    Member since 1990
    (NOT mean and unapproachable)

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    Senior Member Michael Klesel's Avatar
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    They way Cmra Friday practices were ran were fine. Especially when they removed the novices from the expert practices.

    The way this is setup now is going to be a cluster. Ignacio, is there a way to get this as close as possible to the Cmra practice?

    The lack of good track time will just have me doing practice on Thursdays under my memberships and saving my time/$ on Friday to work in my trailer.

  10. #10
    Hi Everyone,

    I usually stay quiet unless someone has an old GSXR that I like ;) But I feel I should speak today. Mixing racers and track day persons is not a good idea for safety reasons. Our goals and, most importantly, race craft skill set are very different. I am by no means fast and the minimum lap times for the advanced group will create potential hazards for everyone. As Mike stated above, there should be a format for racers and a format for track or street group as LSTD did in the past. I have re-evaluated my participation for next year based on this change because safety is my number one concern for everyone. This is a very dangerous sport and everything should be done to mitigate issues. I feel the CMRA format of novice and expert sessions has done an excellent job mitigating issues. Lap times are not the sole data point that should be considered- race craft is a major consideration. Race craft takes time to develop. The novice expert sessions help group us appropriately based on this. Having a school track day organization run our practice day actually has health insurance benefits as I learned the hard way in the past. Most health insurance companies will not pay claims for persons injured in competition sport (my hard lesson) BUT if a learning organization or licensed school is holding the event, that usually could help one's cause with the health insurance company. So this could work for the members of this club and for the club, but the format needs to change. The previously used and recommended CMRA format should be followed. Sincerely, Brandie Cox

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