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Thread: Fridays with 3:16 Trackdays

  1. #31
    Administrator Walter Walker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandie Cox View Post
    "The simple truth is that not enough racers are signing up for Friday racer practice."

    Then we need to find out why and communicate with the members why so remedy could be proposed. Is this the first time this has happened in CMRA history? What was the original reason LSTD took over? They did a great job and I realize they are no longer operating track days, but would have been a good formula point to consider for future Friday practice operations.
    Friday practice numbers have been in a steady decline over the last 3 seasons (removing 2020 for obvious reasons). We had 120-130 total riders on Friday with most doing a full day in 2017. This season our best was 100 at the August MSR round with about half doing half day practice. The second best turnout this season was 85 with around half doing half day practice. Unfortunately expenses have done nothing but go up. Track rent, ambulances, marshals, porta-johns, insurance, fuel, travel costs, etc. have all steadily increased every year. A fluctuating economy has been the primary factor in the decline. Hobbies are the first thing to go when household finances get tight.

    Most in this discussion don't know that LSTD ran the Friday practice from 2006-2016. Before that CMRA ran 2 day events.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandie Cox View Post
    How did this process to make this Friday change come about? Was there a board meeting and a vote? Were there several vendors that offered proposals and then considered and voted upon? I do not want to be difficult, but I feel like this was introduced and I was surprised (maybe I missed a post or meeting and I sincerely mean that). I realize that if we do not have the money to operate the Friday day, this was an emergency to make happen properly for 2022 for planning reasons. I think we need to issue a survey to find out why participation is low so that data can be worked on in the future and mitigated. Thank you, Brandie Cox
    The BoD has discussed this at length. The decision was made at the recommendation of the finance committee. The bottom line is we cannot continue to operate the Friday at a breakeven and or loss.

    To be clear a break even event is actually a loss as it does not cover the CMRAs monthly overhead.
    Walter Walker
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    walter@cmraracing.com
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    Member since 1990
    (NOT mean and unapproachable)

  2. #32
    Hello Everyone,

    We appreciate the feedback and look forward to showing you on track what we are going to do for you and the racing community as a whole. We are indeed limiting the numbers on track to less than we have at our events since the sessions are shorter (30 minutes versus 1 hour)

    Best,
    Ignacio

  3. #33
    Senior Member Michael Klesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Linker View Post
    Michael,
    I personally do not believe the CMRA is a business, it is a club. Which is completely different! My opinion solely, but in 2018 I joined CMRA (and know you have been around since then competing as we have never met). But, as someone who spends 20% of your weekends with the organization, do you not see the CMRA more as family? No one is putting money in their pocket at the end of the day (beside the bare bones staff, who are probably under paid) if there was a profit after an event or annually. Yes, they provide a service to us (similar to a business). But, if CMRA did not provide the service, then who else who? Without driving 10 hours or more one way? I think the problem is that anyone who has been with CMRA for a few years should see the organization as a club, and not a business (family and friends orientated).
    I am not trying to start conflict with you whatsoever. I am just stating that we, (CMRA) as a whole should not publicly bash changes that involve CMRA until an actual issue is present.
    I understand what you’re saying, but think you’re perceiving what I was stating in previous posts as something else. I do enjoy the club and consider a lot of people in this club great friends. I’ve raced motorcycles my entire life. It’s hard for me to even name a “friend” that didn’t somehow evolve from 2 wheels.

    Having said that, the main issue is money. As a business owner and having managed other businesses in the past, the mindset you’re stating is the fastest way to go broke. You can call it “club”, people don’t make money, etc. In the end, no money, no club. Has to be treated as a business.

    To answer your question if the Cmra didn’t provide this we would drive 10 hours…. That wouldn’t be difficult. WERA or another org would be here very quickly. The racers will still have a place to race in Texas.

    Again, I hope the club is successful and I’m passionate about it. That still doesn’t change my mind about the 3:16 deal. It’s a terrible format. Racers have chimed in, 3:16 instructors have reached out telling me they told Ignacio this would not work as well. Everyone will see by the first round. Hell, read the owner (Ignacio’s) response. Did he answer a single concern in this thread? And to be clear, I’m friends with Ignacio. We have never had a issue in the past.

    Below are the 2 scenarios that will play out in 2022.

    1. Bad turnout to 3:16 events and 3:16 pulls out after 1-2 “bad” events. How much cash do they have and can afford to lose? That’s a big one.

    2. Complete cluster **** and format is changed 2-3 times. Results into frustrated racers and they potentially quit showing.

  4. #34
    Thank you so much Walter for your answer. I really appreciate it.

    Ignacio, I would like to propose consideration of this format for the practice day: There is an awesome group out in California called FastTrack Riders. I was lucky enough to attend a trackday with them at AutoClub Speedway last year and will be going again next week. It is the best format I have ever seen. They are now introducing 4 groups. I feel they run a very tight and safe scenario that benefits all riders. It was a really neat experience. To give an idea of the laptime requirements, they have narrowed them down more closely to suit the actual levels. The level 4 advanced racer group is laptimes under 1:40. I was able to run a 1:34 high and I am just a midpack ish expert but I never felt cramped or concerned.

    I would encourage re-visiting your format versus and wait and see approach. I would "Smokey The Bear" this scenario as the outcome would be so much more positive for your organization and ours. I want us to be happy and I want you to succeed. This certainly can work very well for all.

    https://www.fastrackriders.com/collections/events

    Sincerely,

    Brandie Cox

  5. #35
    Racers and trackday participants should never be on track at same time, I think I heard this from someone in a previous post. I suspect a TD organization might afford insurance that is cheaper as a result of the difference in the two's goal but that is a total assumption on my part. If im right, can you imagine the potential insurance risk for the TD. Offering the Friday to a TD before giving any track(such as Hallett lapping days) a shot at filling the void for racers seems very odd to me. A business, club, whatever you want to call it that raises prices in order to offest losses is a smart one. A business that does it and miscalculates and possibly fails, as a result, isnt so smart. Guess we'll see where this lands.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Michael Klesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignacio Pedregon View Post
    Hello Everyone,

    We appreciate the feedback and look forward to showing you on track what we are going to do for you and the racing community as a whole. We are indeed limiting the numbers on track to less than we have at our events since the sessions are shorter (30 minutes versus 1 hour)

    Best,
    Ignacio
    Ignacio,

    Will 3:16 have the same level of safety at the Friday events in comparison to a Cmra Friday event?

  7. #37
    Senior Member Ryan Rutkowski's Avatar
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    Michael Klesel can you please describe what you are referring to in this quote? Are you referring to airfence, cornerworkers, track density, etc? Please be specific.

    Will 3:16 have the same level of safety at the Friday events in comparison to a Cmra Friday event?
    CMRA Asst. Race Director/Safety Officer/Medical Liaison/Outrider
    CMRA BoD Member 2018-2023
    Ex#29

  8. #38
    Senior Member Michael Klesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Rutkowski View Post
    Michael Klesel can you please describe what you are referring to in this quote? Are you referring to airfence, cornerworkers, track density, etc? Please be specific.

    Will they have airfence, same amount of corner workers, ambulance and everything else the cmra had during their practice day events?


    Also, no track org including 3:16 puts the curbing at msrh coming onto front straight. Since this is not a CMRA event, does CMRA still install the curbing prior to 3:16 running their event?

  9. #39
    Administrator Walter Walker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Klesel View Post
    Will they have airfence, same amount of corner workers, ambulance and everything else the cmra had during their practice day events?


    Also, no track org including 3:16 puts the curbing at msrh coming onto front straight. Since this is not a CMRA event, does CMRA still install the curbing prior to 3:16 running their event?
    Standby ambulance service is contractually required at all venues.

    Soft barriers (Airfence, Alpina, etc.) will be deployed at MSRH.

    Curbing will be deployed at MSRH.

    A minimum number of corner workers will be used.
    Walter Walker
    Director of Competition
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    walter@cmraracing.com
    CMRA Ex #43r
    Member since 1990
    (NOT mean and unapproachable)

  10. #40
    Walter,
    I noticed in another post, you stated an honest answer is only one to give a customer. I noticed you added MSRH to one of MK's questions, but he didnt ask about MSRH specifically...other than the curbing question. Is there a reason for that? Is it because airfence isnt deployed at some other tracks at CMRA events? Are those the same answers for other tracks they will be hosting a Friday TD before a CMRA event?

    Also, you mentioned something about this being the recommendation from the Finance Committe. If these events are poorly attended enough to change at MSRH and Cresson, why would the Finance Committe allow the club to continue to lose money at 3 other events? That is, at least, the way the schedule reads if im understanding it correctly.

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