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Thread: New to CMRA - Superstock Rules

  1. #1

    New to CMRA - Superstock Rules

    Brief intro: Took CMRA class in July, submitted for Prov nov license in 2022, and looking forward to racing with many of you.

    Original thought was to do an endurance race with my SV650 (how original) but that's not possible with CMRA. This lead me to look at the WERA rulebook to see how I can build a bike that can run in both organizations. In doing so, seems as if the rules for both organizations started in a similar place with a bit of divergence on CMRA's part. Being 100% honest, I found it difficult to follow at times. A few of the subsections should probably be split into logical bullet points (ie. brakes and suspension).

    I know I'm new and not a very good rider at this point but one of my questions is if I build a WERA spec bike in theory, riders being equal, would I be at a disadvantage in CMRA?

    Looking at the rules, a few observations/questions/head scratchers:
    - I can run a radial master cylinder off an HP4 or a Bimota but couldn't run the equivalent aftermarket unit since my factory MC is vastly different? If you are going to allow one, might as well open it up?
    - Front suspension, OEM or aftermarket fork tubes are allowed to be used as long as they are the same dimensions. Why is this allowed?
    - Brake rotors, what defines exotic?
    - OEM parts, can I run parts from on my '18 SV650 that changed/different in '19?
    - Does the current generation SV650 qualify for modern classic since its pretty much the same horrible design as the older ones?

    Sorry for the rambling. I've been pouring over the rulebook and searching ancient forum posts to ensure I'm not being repetitive/annoying with my questions. Some of the rules seem to counter what I would consider a superstock class. My point with this isn't to be daft but to get definite answers as the last part of the rules state:

    'The items above constitute the entire realm of deviation from showroom stock for Superstock classes. If it does not mention you CAN do it, then you CAN NOT.'

    My main goal is to have fun but want to stay within the rules and hopefully have a chance at a podium one day.

    -Jens
    Last edited by Jens Jorritsma; 12-13-2021 at 11:57 AM.

  2. #2
    And somewhat 'tech' related, who runs the site? The lack of SSL and the amount of exploits for this version of vBulletin are .... concerning.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens Jorritsma View Post
    1. - I can run a radial master cylinder off an HP4 or a Bimota but couldn't run the equivalent aftermarket unit since my factory MC is vastly different? If you are going to allow one, might as well open it up?
    2. - Front suspension, OEM or aftermarket fork tubes are allowed to be used as long as they are the same dimensions. Why is this allowed?
    3. - Brake rotors, what defines exotic?
    4. - OEM parts, can I run parts from on my '18 SV650 that changed/different in '19?
    5. - Does the current generation SV650 qualify for modern classic since its pretty much the same horrible design as the older ones?

    -Jens
    All answers based on you racing the mentioned 2018 SV650

    1. For SS classes, it must be the same bore/stroke, so unless that HP4 or Bimota has identical specs, no, you can't run it in SS
    2. Why wouldn't it be? There is no gain with aftermarket if the same dimensions. However, there i an exemption for the SV forks as to more allowed options, such as a GSXR front end.
    3. Exotic would be carbon fiber, such as what MotoGP uses. It would probably include Titanium as well, although I don't recall ever seeing Ti rotors
    4. Yes, as there were no major changes and the bikes is considered the same generation
    5. No, as it is a different generation. While maybe not a completely different bike, there are changes.
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  4. #4
    Administrator Walter Walker's Avatar
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    Jens,

    I can help you with thes questions and any others you might have. Give me a call or shoot me an email.
    Walter Walker
    Director of Competition
    254-717-6848
    walter@cmraracing.com
    CMRA Ex #43r
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Smith View Post
    All answers based on you racing the mentioned 2018 SV650

    1. For SS classes, it must be the same bore/stroke, so unless that HP4 or Bimota has identical specs, no, you can't run it in SS
    2. Why wouldn't it be? There is no gain with aftermarket if the same dimensions. However, there i an exemption for the SV forks as to more allowed options, such as a GSXR front end.
    3. Exotic would be carbon fiber, such as what MotoGP uses. It would probably include Titanium as well, although I don't recall ever seeing Ti rotors
    4. Yes, as there were no major changes and the bikes is considered the same generation
    5. No, as it is a different generation. While maybe not a completely different bike, there are changes.
    Steven, thanks for taking the time to reply!

    To your points, that why I'm asking for clarification.

    1) In regards to the MC, under the SS rules, the following is listed which seems to contradict that?

    Brakes
    t) Master cylinders may be replaced with any OEM master cylinder regardless of type from
    any make or model. Aftermarket master cylinders are allowed but are restricted to same type and as
    close as possible to the OEM bore and stroke. Thumb operated rear brake systems are allowed.
    2) Cool, you actually touched on where I was going with that. 'May use any OEM fork and triple clamp' (for the SV650). That seems like a massive change with huge performance implications, I guess that is where my confusion lies as I can't find anything similar in other racing orgs.

    3) Figured that was the case, doesn't seem like carbon ceramic has a huge place in motorcycle rotors at the moment.

    4) Excellent, thanks!

    5) Figured I'd try for another eligible sprint race.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Walker View Post
    Jens,

    I can help you with thes questions and any others you might have. Give me a call or shoot me an email.
    I'll shoot you an email, thanks!
    2018 SV650 - Superstock #425

  6. #6
    Administrator Walter Walker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens Jorritsma View Post
    1) In regards to the MC, under the SS rules, the following is listed which seems to contradict that?

    Brakes
    t) Master cylinders may be replaced with any OEM master cylinder regardless of type from
    any make or model. Aftermarket master cylinders are allowed but are restricted to same type and as
    close as possible to the OEM bore and stroke. Thumb operated rear brake systems are allowed.
    This means that you can use an OEM master cylinder from any machine regardless of type (radial or conventional). Example: an OEM racial master cylinder from an R6 may be used on an SV650. You can use an aftermarket master cylinder but it must be the same type as the OEM and as close as possible to the bore and stroke of the OEM master cylinder. There is a difference between OEM Brembo MCs and aftermarket.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jens Jorritsma View Post
    2) Cool, you actually touched on where I was going with that. 'May use any OEM fork and triple clamp' (for the SV650). That seems like a massive change with huge performance implications, I guess that is where my confusion lies as I can't find anything similar in other racing orgs.
    The only real advantage to allowing this is crash survivability. The OEM forks on an SV bend easily. The most common OEM front ends that are used GSXR 600 and R6. Both are heavier than the OEM SV front end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jens Jorritsma View Post
    3) Figured that was the case, doesn't seem like carbon ceramic has a huge place in motorcycle rotors at the moment.
    You'll only see carbon rotors in MotoGP. The rule states that aftermarket rotors must be the same material as the OEM rotors. Steel rotors may only be replaced with aftermarket steel rotors. Steel rotors may not be replaced with cast iron rotors.
    Walter Walker
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  7. #7
    Thanks for the reply, Walter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Walker View Post
    This means that you can use an OEM master cylinder from any machine regardless of type (radial or conventional). Example: an OEM racial master cylinder from an R6 may be used on an SV650. You can use an aftermarket master cylinder but it must be the same type as the OEM and as close as possible to the bore and stroke of the OEM master cylinder. There is a difference between OEM Brembo MCs and aftermarket.
    Excellent, that's what I thought it meant. Anything will be an upgrade over the stock SV master. Agreed, not much made for OEM by the 'great' names is as good as their aftermarket components.


    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Walker View Post
    The only real advantage to allowing this is crash survivability. The OEM forks on an SV bend easily. The most common OEM front ends that are used GSXR 600 and R6. Both are heavier than the OEM SV front end.
    Roger that. I've heard people/read posts saying GSX-R is superior without much additional info. As the allowances doesn't state, if you use another OEM (GSXR) fork, are you allowed to run the calipers from that other OEM bike?


    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Walker View Post
    You'll only see carbon rotors in MotoGP. The rule states that aftermarket rotors must be the same material as the OEM rotors. Steel rotors may only be replaced with aftermarket steel rotors. Steel rotors may not be replaced with cast iron rotors.
    My curiosity has been settled, thank you.

    ---------------

    Last question (I hope), I noticed that WERA allows the use of slipper clutches in SuperStock. Any chance that'll be added to SuperStock in CMRA?
    2018 SV650 - Superstock #425

  8. #8
    Administrator Walter Walker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens Jorritsma View Post
    Thanks for the reply, Walter!



    Excellent, that's what I thought it meant. Anything will be an upgrade over the stock SV master. Agreed, not much made for OEM by the 'great' names is as good as their aftermarket components.




    Roger that. I've heard people/read posts saying GSX-R is superior without much additional info. As the allowances doesn't state, if you use another OEM (GSXR) fork, are you allowed to run the calipers from that other OEM bike?




    My curiosity has been settled, thank you.

    ---------------

    Last question (I hope), I noticed that WERA allows the use of slipper clutches in SuperStock. Any chance that'll be added to SuperStock in CMRA?
    We have no plans to include non OEM slipper clutches in Superstock.
    Walter Walker
    Director of Competition
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    walter@cmraracing.com
    CMRA Ex #43r
    Member since 1990
    (NOT mean and unapproachable)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Walker View Post
    We have no plans to include non OEM slipper clutches in Superstock.
    Thanks Walter, more money I can put towards sprint race fees.
    2018 SV650 - Superstock #425

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