What do you get from an affiliation?

We were a independant club before. Some would say
it was some of the best years in the clubs history. What are your thoughts. Remember the
contingency was as good or in some cases better when the club was independant.

The questions are here because the space in the poll format is to small.

1: Do you feel you get something more than a trip
to Daytona or Road A for the money we pay for
the privelage of being affiliated with WERA or
the CCS?

2: If the CMRA was independant next year would
you quit attending races?

3: If it could be shown to you with simple, easy
to understand numbers where the club could
offer the same or better benefits for you
would you be in favor for being independant?

4: If anything was to change would you want it
to be voted up or down by the membership as
a whole?

5: You really don't give a rats rear what happens
just as long as you can pay your money and
speed around a track every once in a while?


After voting please elaborate on any of your answers.

Remember, don't be afraid of your freedom.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

We were a independant club before. Some would say
it was some of the best years in the clubs history. What are your thoughts. Remember the
contingency was as good or in some cases better when the club was independant.

The questions are here because the space in the poll format is to small.

1: Do you feel you get something more than a trip
to Daytona or Road A for the money we pay for
the privelage of being affiliated with WERA or
the CCS?

2: If the CMRA was independant next year would
you quit attending races?

3: If it could be shown to you with simple, easy
to understand numbers where the club could
offer the same or better benefits for you
would you be in favor for being independant?

4: If anything was to change would you want it
to be voted up or down by the membership as
a whole?

5: You really don't give a rats rear what happens
just as long as you can pay your money and
speed around a track every once in a while?


After voting please elaborate on any of your answers.

Remember, don't be afraid of your freedom.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

I did race when it was independent I could not say that I noticed much diffrence between that and ccs save the cost. I also raced when it was wera and the difference is that the days went so much smoother when we were not in a combined race.

We seemed to get more coverage as an independent club.

I did race when it was independent I could not say that I noticed much diffrence between that and ccs save the cost. I also raced when it was wera and the difference is that the days went so much smoother when we were not in a combined race.

We seemed to get more coverage as an independent club.

This kind of discussion is fairly scary. Not from the perspective that it is not a relevant topic, BUT there are very few who can truly understand the long-term context of what is being discussed.

Here are some thoughts.

1) With the largest (measured by entries) endurance series in the country, why have the OEM's stayed away from the CMRA endurance series?

A. In 1991-1992, I originally brokered a deal to bring 5000.00 cash from EBC/Garry Gallagher. In short, the deal fell apart and we only ended up with EBC certs. My personal observation was that it did not make sense for any manufacturer to focus those types of resources IN JUST ONE AREA of the country. I also believe we lacked the national level organization to "pull off" such a deal.

2) People like to say that we ran fine as an independent. The truth of the matter is we only ran one year. We basically were a legacy for contingency programs (Harry Tomlinson might be able to comment more accurately) and I believe WE DON'T really know what will happen on that level until we are on our own for several years.

3) The original CMRA-WERA split was as much emotion as it was business. I do know that communication failed on both sides, but it is arguable who started what. THIS IS A BAD THING. In conversations with WERA, I have stressed communication is a two way street. Because communication broke down, the business process broke down (as no counter proposals ever went either way). I also stress that CMRA is unique in that it is a really huge organization that is uniquely self-sufficient. This club is not like dealing with MRA or any of the other various regional orgainzations.

4) I think the CMRA fights its origanal charter in many instances due to personal attitudes, etc. The original charter (paraphrased) was to promote road racing in the Texas/South Central area. The CMRA and other regional clubs have a very intricate implied responsibility with that through charter principles. That implied responsibility is supporting a national organization (sanctioning body) that provides complimentary services and value to the regional and vice-versa. Ultimately, a regional working with a national organization has more potential "power", the National body has to work on this too!!! If the national takes the regional for granted or vice-versa, then the relationship does not work.

Final thoughts. I honestly thought when the "new" CCS came onto the scene in 2000 with CCS trying to capture national attention with F-USA series, this was going to be the future. Unfortunately the realities of business vetoed the passion required to be involved in racing. While I was talking to John Ulrich at the banquet, I was reminded of something that is very important to all of us whether we conciously want it or not. John mentioned, "WERA provided a consistent platform that you knew would be there". Other than entry statistics I don't know what CCS has provided to the community that will have any long term impact. In this same thought, I do believe some of the business drivers within CCS have driven down costs on items that are commonly coordinated at a national level. With that said, I don't believe CCS is serving the CMRA better interests.

I remember when we had a national sanctioning body that brought "the show" into town. We had racers like Michael Martin, Mark Black, Rick Kirk, and many others able to showcase their talents in THEIR backyard against national level competition.

I remember when the CMRA/CRRC was about meeting the regional riders need and the rider that aspired to get national recognition.

I remember when a CMRA/CRRC regional endurance race would run with a WERA national and racers did not have to travel out of region to try and win "Big $$$" in the endurance series.

I remember all of that occurred when we were with WERA and effective communication took place.

Marcus McBain

This kind of discussion is fairly scary. Not from the perspective that it is not a relevant topic, BUT there are very few who can truly understand the long-term context of what is being discussed.

Here are some thoughts.

1) With the largest (measured by entries) endurance series in the country, why have the OEM's stayed away from the CMRA endurance series?

A. In 1991-1992, I originally brokered a deal to bring 5000.00 cash from EBC/Garry Gallagher. In short, the deal fell apart and we only ended up with EBC certs. My personal observation was that it did not make sense for any manufacturer to focus those types of resources IN JUST ONE AREA of the country. I also believe we lacked the national level organization to "pull off" such a deal.

2) People like to say that we ran fine as an independent. The truth of the matter is we only ran one year. We basically were a legacy for contingency programs (Harry Tomlinson might be able to comment more accurately) and I believe WE DON'T really know what will happen on that level until we are on our own for several years.

3) The original CMRA-WERA split was as much emotion as it was business. I do know that communication failed on both sides, but it is arguable who started what. THIS IS A BAD THING. In conversations with WERA, I have stressed communication is a two way street. Because communication broke down, the business process broke down (as no counter proposals ever went either way). I also stress that CMRA is unique in that it is a really huge organization that is uniquely self-sufficient. This club is not like dealing with MRA or any of the other various regional orgainzations.

4) I think the CMRA fights its origanal charter in many instances due to personal attitudes, etc. The original charter (paraphrased) was to promote road racing in the Texas/South Central area. The CMRA and other regional clubs have a very intricate implied responsibility with that through charter principles. That implied responsibility is supporting a national organization (sanctioning body) that provides complimentary services and value to the regional and vice-versa. Ultimately, a regional working with a national organization has more potential "power", the National body has to work on this too!!! If the national takes the regional for granted or vice-versa, then the relationship does not work.

Final thoughts. I honestly thought when the "new" CCS came onto the scene in 2000 with CCS trying to capture national attention with F-USA series, this was going to be the future. Unfortunately the realities of business vetoed the passion required to be involved in racing. While I was talking to John Ulrich at the banquet, I was reminded of something that is very important to all of us whether we conciously want it or not. John mentioned, "WERA provided a consistent platform that you knew would be there". Other than entry statistics I don't know what CCS has provided to the community that will have any long term impact. In this same thought, I do believe some of the business drivers within CCS have driven down costs on items that are commonly coordinated at a national level. With that said, I don't believe CCS is serving the CMRA better interests.

I remember when we had a national sanctioning body that brought "the show" into town. We had racers like Michael Martin, Mark Black, Rick Kirk, and many others able to showcase their talents in THEIR backyard against national level competition.

I remember when the CMRA/CRRC was about meeting the regional riders need and the rider that aspired to get national recognition.

I remember when a CMRA/CRRC regional endurance race would run with a WERA national and racers did not have to travel out of region to try and win "Big $$$" in the endurance series.

I remember all of that occurred when we were with WERA and effective communication took place.

Marcus McBain

Does the cost of insurance offset the cost of CCS affiliation? Just wondering. I don't want to get in any pi$$ing matches on affiliation and such. I was thinking, though, that part of the reason to go with CCS was insurance cost as an independent. Not sure what gave me that notion, maybe I heard it from Charlie or something.

I'm not sure about contingencies, but if it costs significantly less to run an independent club, not having to pay affiliation costs and all, and we can race cheaper, do we need all that many contingencies? The top guys in the big classes worry about contingencies, most of us don't. Lower license fees and entries would be better for us.

Just off the cuff thinking here. I've really given this subject little thought.

Does the cost of insurance offset the cost of CCS affiliation? Just wondering. I don't want to get in any pi$$ing matches on affiliation and such. I was thinking, though, that part of the reason to go with CCS was insurance cost as an independent. Not sure what gave me that notion, maybe I heard it from Charlie or something.

I'm not sure about contingencies, but if it costs significantly less to run an independent club, not having to pay affiliation costs and all, and we can race cheaper, do we need all that many contingencies? The top guys in the big classes worry about contingencies, most of us don't. Lower license fees and entries would be better for us.

Just off the cuff thinking here. I've really given this subject little thought.

I think that Marcus makes some good points. There are tangible benefits from a national affliation. If this issue is up for consideration I think that it will be important to ensure that we reevaluate the decision to leave WERA. The WERA national endurance series and the GNF participation would provide value to a large part of our members.

I think that Marcus makes some good points. There are tangible benefits from a national affliation. If this issue is up for consideration I think that it will be important to ensure that we reevaluate the decision to leave WERA. The WERA national endurance series and the GNF participation would provide value to a large part of our members.