13 2014 Rule and Class Structure changes

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10-02-2013, 01:23 PM
Walter Walker

UPDATED! 11/23/13 2014 Rule and Class Structure changes

Note: I've moved all announcements to date to this post,

Updated: 11/23/13 at 8:52:48PM

1) 500 Classic
Up to 500cc 4-stroke air and water-cooled twins
Up to 400cc 2-stroke air and water-cooled twins (Keith H. & Ryan W. I better see an RD on the grid next season!!!)
Any bodywork allowed.

500 Supersport (no Expert/Novice differentiation)
Honda CBR500 allowed

300 Supersport (no Expert/Novice differentiation)
Kawasaki EX300 (Ninja) allowed.

E Superstock (no Expert/Novice differentiation)
Up to 250cc 4-stroke air and water-cooled twins
Up to 250cc 4-stroke air and water-cooled singles
Any bodywork allowed.
No engine modifications allowed.
All machines may be upgraded to 17” wheels so long as they do not weigh less than the stock wheels for that model.
Kawasaki EX250 (Ninja), Honda VTR 250, CBR250R, YamahaWR250X and Buell Blast using Superstock rules with airbox modifications or individual filters allowed. Aprilia RS125 (street bike) with
aftermarket exhaust and carburetor allowed. Formula 4 machines allowed

The Following will replace the CMRA Mini Endurance series:

CMRA Lighweight Endurance Series Classes

500 Classic

Per 500 Classic sprint rules

500 Supersport

Per 500 Supersport sprint rules

300 Supersport

Per 300 Supersport sprint rules

E Superstock

Per E Superstock sprint rules

Formula 4

Per CMRA Formula 4 sprint rules

Supersport

The following is a brief overview of the Supersport rules package. Bare in mind that in the final version of the 2014 Rulebook Supersport will likely refer to the Superstock section and only list the items that are different. The following list is being posted in this form to help those that are preparing machines for these classes. The intent of these classes is to promote close competition while keeping cost to a minimum. The CMRA will maintain a list of MSRP pricing for available components. The CMRA reserves the right to disallow any component based on cost. (I'll make this sound better in the final version.)

a) Bodywork must be an exact replica of the OEM bodywork with the following exceptions. Solo tail allowed. Headlight, taillight, and turn signal openings may be covered or filled in. (pending availability)
b) No engine or airbox modifications allowed. Aftermarket replacement air filters are allowed.
c) OEM Exhaust system may be replaced with aftermarket.
d) OEM Fuel management system may be supplemented and or replaced with aftermarket.
e) OEM rear shock may be replaced with aftermarket.
f) OEM Fork internals may be modified or replaced.
g) OEM hand and foot controls may be replaced with aftermarket.
h) OEM brake lines and brake pads may be replaced with aftermarket
i) OEM chain and sprockets may be replaced with aftermarket. Alternate gear ratios are allowed.
j) No quick shifters.
k) No traction control allowed. (I know I Know but somebody will ask)
l) OEM subframes must be retained and remain unmodified.
m) Unnecessary brackets may be removed from the chassis. Nothing may be cut off of the frame, swingarm, or subframe without prior CMRA approval.
n) Lighting and unnecessary electrical components may be removed but must be done so at the factory connectors. Wire harnesses must remain unmodified.

2) All machines in all classes will be required to have front brake lever guards.

3) Endurance pit stops, any and all work performed on the machine must be completed before refueling may commence.

4) Endurance race starts, all endurance machines must be on the starting grid or false grid no later than 10 mins before the scheduled race start time. Tire warmers and generators will be allowed.

5) 2013 and up Kawasaki 636 will be allowed in C Superstock.

6) Classic 600s will be allowed in F2 Endurance

7) Grom Challenge (JD and Ryan Andrews talked me into it.:bannana:)
Honda Grom allowed using Supersport rules with the following exceptions.
No clip-ons
No rearsets.
No fuel controllers.
Airbox may be replaced with pod type air filter.
Throttle body may be repositioned.
OEM final drive ratio must be retained.
No aftermarket bodywork, all OEM body panels must remain in place.
10-02-2013, 01:59 PM
John Redford

got me...:lol:
10-02-2013, 02:01 PM
David Sprague

Me too.
10-02-2013, 03:46 PM
Walter Walker

Haha! later today folks.
10-03-2013, 09:00 AM
David Roy

:burnout:
10-03-2013, 09:20 AM
Danny Dominguez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter Walker

Haha! later today folks.

SSSOOOO "later today" , yesterday means thursday of next week?? :nana:
10-03-2013, 03:29 PM
Walter Walker

Sorry, I didn't finish loading until 3am and I've been at the track all day.
10-03-2013, 04:59 PM
Alan Etheredge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter Walker

Sorry, I didn't finish loading until 3am and I've been at the track all day.

Livin' the Dream for sure :twitch:

Thanks for all you do, WW :hail:
10-09-2013, 03:01 PM
Walter Walker

Bump!
10-09-2013, 03:50 PM
Heinz Roy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter Walker

Bump!

Bump indeed!

2014 will be interesting...thanks Walter!
10-09-2013, 04:09 PM
Walter Walker

Bump! Updated again! Forgot to cap Motard displacement in 300 and 500cc classes.
10-09-2013, 04:40 PM
David Branyon

So no classes whatsoever for what are current F5-F7 bikes? Kids need to jump from jr. motard to Ninja 250 I guess? Just asking, not saying right or wrong.
10-09-2013, 04:45 PM
Walter Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Branyon

So no classes whatsoever for what are current F5-F7 bikes? Kids need to jump from jr. motard to Ninja 250 I guess? Just asking, not saying right or wrong.

Where exactly did you get that information?
10-09-2013, 05:29 PM
David Branyon

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Branyon

So no classes whatsoever for what are current F5-F7 bikes? Kids need to jump from jr. motard to Ninja 250 I guess? Just asking, not saying right or wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter Walker

Where exactly did you get that information?

I didn't get the information so much as asking a clarifying question. I see there are 4 classes listed for the 2014 version of the mini-endurance series and the lowest one is F4. I wasn't sure if the "more to come" meant more classes for mini endurance, or the description of the other races (i.e. BBE, sprints). So maybe the F5-F7 bikes will just do sprints? I'm just asking, trying to understand the revisions. Thanks!
10-09-2013, 06:57 PM
Walter Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Branyon

I didn't get the information so much as asking a clarifying question. I see there are 4 classes listed for the 2014 version of the mini-endurance series and the lowest one is F4. I wasn't sure if the "more to come" meant more classes for mini endurance, or the description of the other races (i.e. BBE, sprints). So maybe the F5-F7 bikes will just do sprints? I'm just asking, trying to understand the revisions. Thanks!

David,

We had 1 F6 team enter two of the 5 Mini Endurance rounds so far this season. With that in mind we decided it was time for a change in the Mini Endurance format.

To answer your question, Yes F5, 6, and 7 will be sprint classes only for 2014.
10-09-2013, 07:11 PM
John Black

any room for bigger 2-Ss in the new superstock classes?
10-09-2013, 10:53 PM
David Branyon

Thanks Walter. That's what I figured. I hadn't kept up with it this year, but I know that when we ran F7 in mini endurance last year, we were typically the only entrant in F7 and there would only be 1-3 bikes collectively in F5-F7. I am sad that they're going away, but completely understand the business decision. Thanks for clarifying.
10-10-2013, 12:28 AM
Ryan Warren

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Black

any room for bigger 2-Ss in the new superstock classes?

I second this question. The 125 aprilia smoker is expressly allowed but there is no outline for what else might be allowed. I prefer to be on machinery able to battle for the over all an our RS92 (92cc yamaha smoker) just isn't going to match a 500.
10-10-2013, 08:27 AM
John Black

maybe an MX based 125 in MX chassis for the 250 superstock... mx based 125 in GP chassis in the 300 superstock... mx based 250 in MX chassis the 500 superstock...

throw us lovers of real motorcycles a bone...
10-10-2013, 08:54 AM
Walter Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Warren

I second this question. The 125 aprilia smoker is expressly allowed but there is no outline for what else might be allowed. I prefer to be on machinery able to battle for the over all an our RS92 (92cc yamaha smoker) just isn't going to match a 500.

The 125 Aprilia is allowed because it is a street bike. Remember these are Superstock classes. If you want to compete for the overall then the answer is obvious.
10-10-2013, 08:57 AM
Walter Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Black

maybe an MX based 125 in MX chassis for the 250 superstock... mx based 125 in GP chassis in the 300 superstock... mx based 250 in MX chassis the 500 superstock...

Again, These are Superstock classes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Black

throw us lovers of real motorcycles a bone...

We have been for several years and no one showed up.
10-10-2013, 12:15 PM
Ryan Warren

can we increase F4 displacement then? we wont be taking away from the super stock classes but we can still compete.
10-10-2013, 12:29 PM
Walter Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Warren

can we increase F4 displacement then? we wont be taking away from the super stock classes but we can still compete.

Interesting suggestion.
Ill give that one some thought.
10-10-2013, 12:35 PM
John Black

anything to help keep some 2-Ss on the grid would be very much appreciatted... a bump up to 125cc and exclude GP based motors would get us there...
10-10-2013, 01:52 PM
Scott McDermott

We showed up. Granted, not every race, but it's been 2 very busy years with an end in sight.

Dad is dying to build a motard based on a 125 mx chassis and motor. I believe he wrote you a request letter last fall about it. Those will go to 148 fairly easily. We could do a 250 even. I would like to race something that could win overall but I have little interest in racing a 4 stroke.
10-10-2013, 01:53 PM
Scott McDermott

Please! :)
10-10-2013, 02:56 PM
John Black

a seperate unlimited-ish 2-S class to run with the evil 4-S superstock classes?
10-10-2013, 03:02 PM
Peter Shaddock

I applaud CMRA's decision to create new classes to take advantage of new bikes rolling off showroom floors. Sure, it messes all of us up who love and race the 250, and I love me some f5, f6, f7 minis, but change is inevitable. With worldwide markets and high fuel prices expanding demand for <500cc sport bikes, with manufacturers stepping up to the plate, this guarantees our club's new racer appeal and longevity. I am actually stoked to see how fast a 500 can run.

2 Questions for Walter:

1. Now that we have a class for 500cc twins, and there are countless air cooled GS500 twins gathering dust in basements, can we get an exception to allow GS500 air cooled twins in the 300 class, or relax the 500 class rules to allow something more flexible than SS rules for air cooled twins? I can't foresee anything but a well built fuel injected CBR500R winning the overall championship next year.

2. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE can we stick to MSR-C 1.3 and the short course format at all other racetracks? PLEASE!!

Peter
10-10-2013, 04:51 PM
Scott Martin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Shaddock

I can't foresee anything but a well built fuel injected CBR500R winning the overall championship next year.

you don't think the old ninja 500r would be competitive against the cbr500r?
10-10-2013, 05:36 PM
Ty Howard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Martin

you don't think the old ninja 500r would be competitive against the cbr500r?

Don't forget KTM will be bringing the Duke 390 into the states next year. A KTM will be making a run at the overall.
10-10-2013, 05:51 PM
Staton Shed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Howard

Don't forget KTM will be bringing the Duke 390 into the states next year. A KTM will be making a run at the overall.

Nice. But isn't that a motard over 250cc?
10-10-2013, 06:28 PM
Walter Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staton Shed

Nice. But isn't that a motard over 250cc?

The 390 Duke is far from a motard.
10-10-2013, 06:32 PM
Staton Shed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter Walker

The 390 Duke is far from a motard.

I like the way you think.
10-10-2013, 08:43 PM
Scott McDermott

I am excited about the new classes. They sound fun. I just really want to endurance 2 strokes for overalls. Please consider some sort of 2 stroke single class that would fit that. It could be it's own class so it never took class points from the Superstock classes. Maybe a 250 single 2stroke in any chassis. I think you'd get a lot more interest in a 2 stroke class with a displacement that was factory. You say no one showed up but I believe that's a result of the class specs. current displacement max is not a stock option. It requires a motor build close to the maximum available. An 85 (100)cc motard does not have the aero to compete with a the 250 4s so it also requires a chassis build. The number of people willing to do that are limited and even less have the capacity to do so. I believe that is why so few showed up. Thanks for your ear, Walter. I know we're annoying with all our crazy ideas, wants and demands. ;)
10-10-2013, 09:47 PM
Christopher Corder

Hopefully this is the appropriate forum to voice concerns when it comes to some of the rules discussions currently being worked on by the BOD. I apologize if my comments are not in the appropriate place.

I understand that class structures are somewhat out of the control of the club since factors such as number of entries, bike manufacturer decisions, and regional preferences drive those decisions. However, I also recognize that what gets run can be encouraged, or conversely, discouraged by the rules structure of an organization. Over the last several years, the disappearance of small displacement minis coupled with the rise of the Ninja 250 have put the final nail in the coffin of our traditional farm system, the mini endurance class. This has been heartbreaking to watch for those of us with a passion for lightweight racing, two-strokes, and bikes cobbled together in garages across the region. The series has morphed into a horrible spec class of bikes that all look, sound, and race the same. But it is what is as they say.

It would be completely unfair to blame the club for this sad event. As I mentioned before, the market has driven this change and no matter how much I hated seeing it, the 250’s (still not minis in my book) took over the series and have been a financial success. Honestly, they saved the series from the throes of death. Without those bikes, I don’t believe it would have survived. While it is unfair to blame the club for these changes, I do think rules packages, number of eligible races (both sprint and endurance) and just calling them minis were all factors that lead to the demise of our more traditional mini entries (TMGP style bikes, 80cc GP bikes, etc.) The market, a bad economy, and our decisions killed our true mini classes. Money won out over our culture. That is a good thing for the club. But it does not make it any more palatable.

So, the die is cast on the Ninja 250’s. This brings me to my concerns, as voiced when the 250’s started to grow in entries that the 500’s are far too much bike to be considered minis. In my opinion, adding these full sized motorcycles to the mini endurance classes will totally change the branding and perception of the strongest mini program in the country, the CMRA mini endurance series. These bikes are far too heavy, and far too fast to be considered minis. While I know the designs and performance are completely different, I find it unsettling that our mini class and our second fastest class are only 100cc apart from each other. I would respectfully ask that the BOD carefully consider the potential speed and weight differentials these bikes present. Additionally, I would encourage the BOD to create a plan spanning at least five years, which defines what our mini classes should be, where we want to take them, and how to get there. I hate to see the classes driven by whatever new bike is announced instead of what we, as a club, want.

I support whatever decisions the BOD and staff makes related to class structure. I don’t see those financial numbers and I strongly believe that ultimately, the club needs to produce product that people buy so the BOD will know what is best. I just encourage those that are serving to look hard at what the club was, is, and what they want it to be.

We should encourage builders.
We should encourage youth participation.
We should encourage vintage classes.
We should encourage our long standing tradition of providing a place to race whatever you have.
Provided the balance sheet does not suffer.

Thank you for listening.
10-10-2013, 10:00 PM
Derek Thomas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Howard

Don't forget KTM will be bringing the Duke 390 into the states next year. A KTM will be making a run at the overall.

Maybe I don't read too well, I don't see the KTM fits in the "twins" rules...would this or possibly the RC 390(if it makes it to the states) be legal for the CMRA?
10-10-2013, 10:51 PM
Jesse Davis

There are plenty of 12-14 yo kids on 250s already. Its a great, relevant bike thats reliable. That means a kid can concentrate on seat time, and dad doesnt have to be a pro tuner to keep his kid on track. The real problem to me was a lack of bike to fill the gap between 250 and 600 or SV. Now with a place to ride a 500, we have that. This is a good formula, and it will work.
10-10-2013, 11:35 PM
Danny Dominguez

finally some1 gets it! Thanx Jesse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Davis

There are plenty of 12-14 yo kids on 250s already. Its a great, relevant bike thats reliable. That means a kid can concentrate on seat time, and dad doesnt have to be a pro tuner to keep his kid on track. The real problem to me was a lack of bike to fill the gap between 250 and 600 or SV. Now with a place to ride a 500, we have that. This is a good formula, and it will work.
10-11-2013, 08:13 AM
Christopher Corder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Davis

There are plenty of 12-14 yo kids on 250s already. Its a great, relevant bike thats reliable. That means a kid can concentrate on seat time, and dad doesnt have to be a pro tuner to keep his kid on track. The real problem to me was a lack of bike to fill the gap between 250 and 600 or SV. Now with a place to ride a 500, we have that. This is a good formula, and it will work.

http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/580/fvg3.jpg

I agree but you seem to be missing the point I was making which was these bikes are not minis. Calling this a mini series with 425 lb, 50 HP, $6000 motorcycles is wrong. Maybe I long for something that just cant exist anymore.
10-11-2013, 08:53 AM
Walter Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Corder

http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/580/fvg3.jpg

I agree but you seem to be missing the point I was making which was these bikes are not minis. Calling this a mini series with 425 lb, 50 HP, $6000 motorcycles is wrong. Maybe I long for something that just cant exist anymore.

That's why we are not calling it a mini series anymore! Seriously Chris pay attention. Come to a race once in a while, you might learn something!
10-11-2013, 08:56 AM
John Black

no, these are not minis by any stretch of the imagination...

when i started racing, a 500 was a legitimate lightweight bike raced hard on sundays, but, these are the times we live in...

now lets get going on the unlimited 2-S class...
10-11-2013, 08:58 AM
Christopher Corder

ok. thanks for the reply WW.
10-11-2013, 10:04 AM
Javier Martinez-Abrego

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Davis

There are plenty of 12-14 yo kids on 250s already. Its a great, relevant bike thats reliable. That means a kid can concentrate on seat time, and dad doesnt have to be a pro tuner to keep his kid on track. The real problem to me was a lack of bike to fill the gap between 250 and 600 or SV. Now with a place to ride a 500, we have that. This is a good formula, and it will work.

You are correct Jesse.... I have a 14 year old that did not "jumped from elementary to high school without attending middle school first"... a mid size class's with adequate supersport ergonomic style that is used as step up for big size bikes, power wise, was missing in the CMRA class structure....

Although I agree that 500's are not minis but the possibility to step up from 250's/300's beforegoing to the 600's seems right and very positive... Hope Kawi comes up with a Supersport 500 soon as we need to stick to green bikes from now on...

Thank's Walter for this changes...

Javier Martinez-Abrego

Gabriel #196 Novice * Javier III #199 Novice * Dos Hemanos Racing #19 Mini Endurance
Kawasaki de México | Dunlop | Motul | Galfer | Alpinestars
10-11-2013, 10:48 AM
Peter Shaddock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Martin

you don't think the old ninja 500r would be competitive against the cbr500r?

I think it very well could be competitive, but anyone wanting to build a bike from scratch to win the championship (assuming they don't have an EX in the garage already) would likely choose the reliability of a new Honda with it's ease of fuel injected tuning and growing aftermarket support, the SV650 / Motard sized 120/160 tires of the Honda vs the EX500's 110/120 / 140 Ninja spec tire.

Support is obvious with a series like this in progress... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlr_mImRODk
10-11-2013, 10:50 AM
Peter Shaddock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Howard

Don't forget KTM will be bringing the Duke 390 into the states next year. A KTM will be making a run at the overall.

Google images lies...sorry for the irrelevant post about the 390 being a v twin... but it is not only going to be delivered as a motard as suggested by http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news...els-confirmed/ who says supersport versions are coming.

But, if the 390 Duke is a single, is it not eligible per the rules as posted. Do I read it right that only twins are allowed in 500 and 300 class?
10-11-2013, 10:59 AM
Peter Shaddock

Anyone have a Ducati Supermono hanging out needing to be ridden, LOL
10-12-2013, 03:39 AM
Ryan Rutkowski

Kawi had a 500. They produced it for 20 years and ended production in 2009. It would be interesting to see if they bring it back. As for the tires on the EX500 you can run a 150/60 with no problems. Stock size was a 130/70 and to be honest the 150 fit better.
10-12-2013, 07:33 AM
Tom Anderson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Shaddock

Google images lies...sorry for the irrelevant post about the 390 being a v twin... but it is not only going to be delivered as a motard as suggested by http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news...els-confirmed/ who says supersport versions are coming.

But, if the 390 Duke is a single, is it not eligible per the rules as posted. Do I read it right that only twins are allowed in 500 and 300 class?

A&R is a rumor and drama site that only gets real information occasionally after it's already released from the real sources.

I don't know anything about the KTM 390, but I do know that Ty might just have real information about the KTM... just maybe. ;)
10-12-2013, 07:00 PM
Ryan Warren

Thanks for considering it.
10-14-2013, 01:26 PM
Ty Howard

The 390 Duke is not a motard but is a single cylinder. Its more of a street fighter style bike like any non fairing street bike. KTM does have plans to produce a 390 sportbike with fairings. I have not heard a release date and I don't think it will be available until 2015.

Many people call this type of bike a Holigan.

The term Motard was created from transforming dirt bikes so they could be used on the track or street.

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