Printable View
One item that I think consistently get's misinterpreted is "serious" racer. I will mention Chris Newhouse's name as I watch him a lot.
Man, there is a guy that is serious. At the GNF, he rode several races back to back. He had Bob and Johnny warming up one bike while he was coming off the track. I don't think you have to be Haner to be a "serious" racer, and I don't think you have to ride a 600 fire breather either. I was simply commenting on the approach.
Marcus
One item that I think consistently get's misinterpreted is "serious" racer. I will mention Chris Newhouse's name as I watch him a lot.
Man, there is a guy that is serious. At the GNF, he rode several races back to back. He had Bob and Johnny warming up one bike while he was coming off the track. I don't think you have to be Haner to be a "serious" racer, and I don't think you have to ride a 600 fire breather either. I was simply commenting on the approach.
Marcus
Now I am confused blame/crdit has to do with your point of view as you state it is "blame" than you need to look inward as the BOD decided not to risk the $30k exposure for the race as you said FUSA told you what was the option was to have FUSA race in this region. It is a big event and has big risks and could bankrupt the club so I say it is CREDIT that BOD did not decide to do a FUSA race in the region. To compare the WERA national races to what is spent to do a FUSA race is not on the same level same as comparing a FUSA race to a AMA roadrace. Purses, officials and promoion behind these races grows as they get bigger. The FUSA races are at tracks that routinely draw 800-2000 sprint entries (Did I hear that ~600 entries is a record for CMRA?) CMRA has around $25k income from sprints(for that 600 entries) add endurance income of ~10K and it becomes doable but it is huge risk as there are weekends that have income of under $20k that barely(or don't quite)pay all the bills for the weekend. FUSA has not returned to tracks they did not have control over or could not cover the cost of races, (Pocono, Willow, Portland to name a few) but added races in Great Plains (MAM) that has the sprint rider base to justify expenditure. I also think it is a credit of the BOD not to hold practice days anymore on Fridays as that was huge risk that turned many otherwise profitable weeknds into money loses.Quote:Originally posted by Brooks Gremmels:
What prompted my posting to this thread however, has nothing directly to do with my original disclaimer, above. I am confused by the statement, "The FUSA series coming/not coming to South Central region was a choice not made by FUSA so direct blame/ credit where it is due". OK, I am ready to "direct blame", to whom should it be directed? I have met with three different parties in the CCS office (Ft. Worth) to ask that a national race be scheduled in our region, at one of our tracks. Why is the other sanctioning organization able to schedule and promote several national events in a year in this region and we can't get a single one through CCS/FUSA? I thought we were coming close year before last when Bill Syfan visited TWS for the purpose of evaluating that facility for a national event. Last year inquiries were made about Hallett. Guess what? We were told that a national event could be scheduled at Hallett IF the CMRA would guarantee one half (50%) of the budget required to hold the races. The budget? Sixty-Thousand Dollars ($60,000). In the parlance of the industry that is what is called a "co-pro" (co-promoted) deal.
How many of you would like to see the CMRA commit to an obligation of $30,000 to have the honor of "hosting" a national event? Sure, it "might" have worked out OK from a financial standpoint. But the CMRA is a roadracing club, not a financial juggernaught that is in the business of speculating on promotions.
I don't know if this is what is referred to above as being "a choice not made by FUSA". If it is not, again I would ask where to assign the "blame/credit".
Brooks
Now I am confused blame/crdit has to do with your point of view as you state it is "blame" than you need to look inward as the BOD decided not to risk the $30k exposure for the race as you said FUSA told you what was the option was to have FUSA race in this region. It is a big event and has big risks and could bankrupt the club so I say it is CREDIT that BOD did not decide to do a FUSA race in the region. To compare the WERA national races to what is spent to do a FUSA race is not on the same level same as comparing a FUSA race to a AMA roadrace. Purses, officials and promoion behind these races grows as they get bigger. The FUSA races are at tracks that routinely draw 800-2000 sprint entries (Did I hear that ~600 entries is a record for CMRA?) CMRA has around $25k income from sprints(for that 600 entries) add endurance income of ~10K and it becomes doable but it is huge risk as there are weekends that have income of under $20k that barely(or don't quite)pay all the bills for the weekend. FUSA has not returned to tracks they did not have control over or could not cover the cost of races, (Pocono, Willow, Portland to name a few) but added races in Great Plains (MAM) that has the sprint rider base to justify expenditure. I also think it is a credit of the BOD not to hold practice days anymore on Fridays as that was huge risk that turned many otherwise profitable weeknds into money loses.Quote:Originally posted by Brooks Gremmels:
What prompted my posting to this thread however, has nothing directly to do with my original disclaimer, above. I am confused by the statement, "The FUSA series coming/not coming to South Central region was a choice not made by FUSA so direct blame/ credit where it is due". OK, I am ready to "direct blame", to whom should it be directed? I have met with three different parties in the CCS office (Ft. Worth) to ask that a national race be scheduled in our region, at one of our tracks. Why is the other sanctioning organization able to schedule and promote several national events in a year in this region and we can't get a single one through CCS/FUSA? I thought we were coming close year before last when Bill Syfan visited TWS for the purpose of evaluating that facility for a national event. Last year inquiries were made about Hallett. Guess what? We were told that a national event could be scheduled at Hallett IF the CMRA would guarantee one half (50%) of the budget required to hold the races. The budget? Sixty-Thousand Dollars ($60,000). In the parlance of the industry that is what is called a "co-pro" (co-promoted) deal.
How many of you would like to see the CMRA commit to an obligation of $30,000 to have the honor of "hosting" a national event? Sure, it "might" have worked out OK from a financial standpoint. But the CMRA is a roadracing club, not a financial juggernaught that is in the business of speculating on promotions.
I don't know if this is what is referred to above as being "a choice not made by FUSA". If it is not, again I would ask where to assign the "blame/credit".
Brooks
Eric almost answered my question, but not quite.
Are ALL Nationa CCS or F-USA events Co-promoted? Is there always someone else footing half the bill. Is it required for a track promoter, racing association or otherwise to pay for CCS, F-USA?
What about WERA? Do they require money???
David
Eric almost answered my question, but not quite.
Are ALL Nationa CCS or F-USA events Co-promoted? Is there always someone else footing half the bill. Is it required for a track promoter, racing association or otherwise to pay for CCS, F-USA?
What about WERA? Do they require money???
David
I am one of the silent 80%. An avid reader of CMRA and WERA BBS, but rarely a contributor. I am also what Marcus defined as the “Hobbyist” type member. I and those like me do this purely for FUN; for they joy of participation, for the BS in the paddock, to pick-up the odd riding tip from the likes of Mr. McBain that will advance my riding…… and so on. As far as me, and those like me are concerned, the Contingency pay out may as well be a Million dollars for a win for all that it matters, I will NEVER be putting any of it in my wallet. Am I jealous or envious ? – NO, not one bit. (But if ever anyone wants to pay back to 29th place ?…….). Given that contingency may pay back to say 5th, the reality is that there are probably less than 10 riders per class that really compete for the trophies and the money. The other 40 or so riders in the class are just like me, racing because we can or what ever their personal reasons/excuses to their wife maybe. But its us “Hobbyist” riders that help to keep the cost of racing down for the “Serious Road Racers” by our very participation and by paying our entry fees just like them. So is the money important to the sport ? Yes absolutely - Its needed by the teams & individuals to help advance the promising young club racers to national level and perhaps beyond, to buy air-fence and so on. Race Organizations just need to remember that money in not the reason why most of us (the silent 80% that is) do this.
Last year I qualified for the WERA GNF in all classes I competed in. The invitation was a result in itself to me. Did I go ? No (Business commitment). But I had the chance to do so. Do I want to go to Daytona this year ? Yes, absolutely. Will I go ? Well I hope so. Not to win, not for the mention in RRW, but for the satisfaction of knowing that I did it, for the memories and joy of participation. Grateful for the opportunity that a Hobbyist (Lets find another name for this category !) can do these things. Grateful that CMRA has a National Affiliation.
I am one of the silent 80%. An avid reader of CMRA and WERA BBS, but rarely a contributor. I am also what Marcus defined as the “Hobbyist” type member. I and those like me do this purely for FUN; for they joy of participation, for the BS in the paddock, to pick-up the odd riding tip from the likes of Mr. McBain that will advance my riding…… and so on. As far as me, and those like me are concerned, the Contingency pay out may as well be a Million dollars for a win for all that it matters, I will NEVER be putting any of it in my wallet. Am I jealous or envious ? – NO, not one bit. (But if ever anyone wants to pay back to 29th place ?…….). Given that contingency may pay back to say 5th, the reality is that there are probably less than 10 riders per class that really compete for the trophies and the money. The other 40 or so riders in the class are just like me, racing because we can or what ever their personal reasons/excuses to their wife maybe. But its us “Hobbyist” riders that help to keep the cost of racing down for the “Serious Road Racers” by our very participation and by paying our entry fees just like them. So is the money important to the sport ? Yes absolutely - Its needed by the teams & individuals to help advance the promising young club racers to national level and perhaps beyond, to buy air-fence and so on. Race Organizations just need to remember that money in not the reason why most of us (the silent 80% that is) do this.
Last year I qualified for the WERA GNF in all classes I competed in. The invitation was a result in itself to me. Did I go ? No (Business commitment). But I had the chance to do so. Do I want to go to Daytona this year ? Yes, absolutely. Will I go ? Well I hope so. Not to win, not for the mention in RRW, but for the satisfaction of knowing that I did it, for the memories and joy of participation. Grateful for the opportunity that a Hobbyist (Lets find another name for this category !) can do these things. Grateful that CMRA has a National Affiliation.
I don't believe there is a "black and white" answer for this question. If there was, the question would have surely been answered by now.
- If you go independent, you don't know the impact on contingency and programs for several years. Again, the one year (since I have been in the club) we enjoyed legacy status. There is not an example or situation in the last 15 years that illustrates a pro or con.>>
Thank you Marcus. That is what I've been wanting you to say. Not because it makes anyones case or
debunks anyones case. But because it's the truth.
I don't know how it would work, You don't know how it would work. We do know what we have with the CCS and what we had with WERA.
My whole reason for this thread (and it is just a
thread, not a BBS reforendem as you put it) was to get more information and other veiw points and
ideas. For the last year or so this topic has come
up with various people under different themes and
other than the year end race venue and some
arbortrary numbers thrown around it's hard to see
any differences. I wish more people would speak up
but I know they don't for reasons they deem
appropriate.
I am glad to see that the people who do have a
opinion they don't mind expressing also see this
club as I believe it really is. A place that is
and always should be inclusive for all, sprint race lapper to track record setter. There needs
to be a place for all, all should have a say,
and the club should do whats in "it's" best interest. If that includes aligning ourselves
with a national organazation, super. If not, super. But we ( all CMRA members ) should think about it and when they ( our elected BOD ) think the time and or circumstance dictate a change
or status quo I am sure they will have their
ducks in a row and be able to make logical,
rational case.
I don't believe there is a "black and white" answer for this question. If there was, the question would have surely been answered by now.
- If you go independent, you don't know the impact on contingency and programs for several years. Again, the one year (since I have been in the club) we enjoyed legacy status. There is not an example or situation in the last 15 years that illustrates a pro or con.>>
Thank you Marcus. That is what I've been wanting you to say. Not because it makes anyones case or
debunks anyones case. But because it's the truth.
I don't know how it would work, You don't know how it would work. We do know what we have with the CCS and what we had with WERA.
My whole reason for this thread (and it is just a
thread, not a BBS reforendem as you put it) was to get more information and other veiw points and
ideas. For the last year or so this topic has come
up with various people under different themes and
other than the year end race venue and some
arbortrary numbers thrown around it's hard to see
any differences. I wish more people would speak up
but I know they don't for reasons they deem
appropriate.
I am glad to see that the people who do have a
opinion they don't mind expressing also see this
club as I believe it really is. A place that is
and always should be inclusive for all, sprint race lapper to track record setter. There needs
to be a place for all, all should have a say,
and the club should do whats in "it's" best interest. If that includes aligning ourselves
with a national organazation, super. If not, super. But we ( all CMRA members ) should think about it and when they ( our elected BOD ) think the time and or circumstance dictate a change
or status quo I am sure they will have their
ducks in a row and be able to make logical,
rational case.