What do you get from an affiliation?

I have no love in my heart for Clear Channel. They are killing good music on my radio through their ownership of a high percentage of the FM stations (they, with Infinity, have de facto control of the play lists for most of the various formats) in the US. They are the Microsoft of radio (and outdoor, and live venues, etc.; hell, I'm waiting for them to buy TicketMaster--then they'll own the whole enchilada), and as such are not to be trusted to be operating in anybodys' best interests but their own, which are "how much money can we make from our various media outlets"? They will not, and really have not, done anything for us unless they think it will make them money. All of their corporate entities exist, to them, to make money so Randall and Lowry Mays (the los dos quesos grandes of San Antonio-based Clear Channel), and the other higher ups in CC, can buy bigger houses, fancier cars, more advantages for their children, and better politicians (who can in turn ensure that the playing field is levelled in their direction as much as is legal).

I doubt that CMRA, if we ended our affiliation with Clear Channel Entertainment's CCS, would ever go back to WERA (we left them for basically the same reasons we're questioning in our current affiliation, which is "what benefit to the average racer do we get for the money we're paying them?"); therefore, if we went independent, IMO we'd stay independent into the foreseeable future. Much discussion has gone into this whole situation at the BoD level, and we will make the decision at the proper time; this decision will be the one we believe to be in the best interests of our Club/Association, based on rational arguments and factual information. Y'all will be kept informed of what's going on as best as we can and in a hopefully timely manner (I, too, was astounded when we were told we were going independent a few years ago; I was also astounded when our affiliation with CCS was announced!).

I have no love in my heart for Clear Channel. They are killing good music on my radio through their ownership of a high percentage of the FM stations (they, with Infinity, have de facto control of the play lists for most of the various formats) in the US. They are the Microsoft of radio (and outdoor, and live venues, etc.; hell, I'm waiting for them to buy TicketMaster--then they'll own the whole enchilada), and as such are not to be trusted to be operating in anybodys' best interests but their own, which are "how much money can we make from our various media outlets"? They will not, and really have not, done anything for us unless they think it will make them money. All of their corporate entities exist, to them, to make money so Randall and Lowry Mays (the los dos quesos grandes of San Antonio-based Clear Channel), and the other higher ups in CC, can buy bigger houses, fancier cars, more advantages for their children, and better politicians (who can in turn ensure that the playing field is levelled in their direction as much as is legal).

I doubt that CMRA, if we ended our affiliation with Clear Channel Entertainment's CCS, would ever go back to WERA (we left them for basically the same reasons we're questioning in our current affiliation, which is "what benefit to the average racer do we get for the money we're paying them?"); therefore, if we went independent, IMO we'd stay independent into the foreseeable future. Much discussion has gone into this whole situation at the BoD level, and we will make the decision at the proper time; this decision will be the one we believe to be in the best interests of our Club/Association, based on rational arguments and factual information. Y'all will be kept informed of what's going on as best as we can and in a hopefully timely manner (I, too, was astounded when we were told we were going independent a few years ago; I was also astounded when our affiliation with CCS was announced!).

Quote:

Originally posted by Daryl Tschoepe:
A few thoughts...

The guy that pays a license fee, and then has a baby and can't make a season, makes the club more money than the guy that enters and wins 4 purse paying races...

Daryl

To my knowledge the CMRA does not pay a purse (as in with club $$$)in any race this season, all purses are paid by Sponsors (ie. businesses or persons that offer there money as purses).
>>>>>>>I would like to thank all the people and buisnesses that contribute money to the CMRA races>>>>>>

So CMRA only makes $50 from the guy that buys a license and then does not race. Where as the guy that enters 4 races pays the CMRA $220 the first weekend and $170 every weekend that he enters 4 races.

Now I remember when the CMRA paid a very nice Championship Purse to all class in the Endurance series, and also had an Expert Prize fund. This was paid from the CMRA not contributed by an outside source. Times have changed.

As it stands right now the CMRA makes the best profit off of a rider that shows up every weekend and enters MANY races, doesn't matter if he is fast or slow or wins Purses/contingency. Also if this same person races endurance and has 5 friends that show up every weekend to watch/help, that is free money for the club.

Enter a lot of races and bring a bunch of friends to watch you race all those races and the CMRA will be fine.

Quote:

Originally posted by Daryl Tschoepe:
A few thoughts...

The guy that pays a license fee, and then has a baby and can't make a season, makes the club more money than the guy that enters and wins 4 purse paying races...

Daryl

To my knowledge the CMRA does not pay a purse (as in with club $$$)in any race this season, all purses are paid by Sponsors (ie. businesses or persons that offer there money as purses).
>>>>>>>I would like to thank all the people and buisnesses that contribute money to the CMRA races>>>>>>

So CMRA only makes $50 from the guy that buys a license and then does not race. Where as the guy that enters 4 races pays the CMRA $220 the first weekend and $170 every weekend that he enters 4 races.

Now I remember when the CMRA paid a very nice Championship Purse to all class in the Endurance series, and also had an Expert Prize fund. This was paid from the CMRA not contributed by an outside source. Times have changed.

As it stands right now the CMRA makes the best profit off of a rider that shows up every weekend and enters MANY races, doesn't matter if he is fast or slow or wins Purses/contingency. Also if this same person races endurance and has 5 friends that show up every weekend to watch/help, that is free money for the club.

Enter a lot of races and bring a bunch of friends to watch you race all those races and the CMRA will be fine.

I agree with Chuck. I have distrusted CCS from the beginning of CMRA's affiliation with them, and when Bill Syfan quit them, well, that sorta reaffirmed my distrusts. I know Bill from the late 70s, raced endurance with him, he's a good guy. When he quit them without explanation, well, I read between the lines knowing that the guy is about the racers. He IS a racer, or was, and that's what he cares about and I suspect there were things he could not agree to with CCS's structure.

WERA OTOH is about road racing. It's all they do and they seem more responsive to the racer. They are accessable about thoughts, ideas, problems, just like CMRA. I trust them, but I in no way suggest a re-affiliation. The board knows what's best, what they've dealt with. I am only seeing things from the outside. If the board feels independence is the way to go, I'll support it. I dreaded the affiliation with CCS from the beginning. I had nothing, but notions to go on like Chuck expresses in the above post. Those were my thoughts. I don't base any of my opinions on facts cause I ain't in the know either with CCS or WERA. But, at least I can talk with Sean at WERA when I have a gripe. Who the hell will listen at CCS? Nobody, I suspect. They're too busy managing their assets.

I agree with Chuck. I have distrusted CCS from the beginning of CMRA's affiliation with them, and when Bill Syfan quit them, well, that sorta reaffirmed my distrusts. I know Bill from the late 70s, raced endurance with him, he's a good guy. When he quit them without explanation, well, I read between the lines knowing that the guy is about the racers. He IS a racer, or was, and that's what he cares about and I suspect there were things he could not agree to with CCS's structure.

WERA OTOH is about road racing. It's all they do and they seem more responsive to the racer. They are accessable about thoughts, ideas, problems, just like CMRA. I trust them, but I in no way suggest a re-affiliation. The board knows what's best, what they've dealt with. I am only seeing things from the outside. If the board feels independence is the way to go, I'll support it. I dreaded the affiliation with CCS from the beginning. I had nothing, but notions to go on like Chuck expresses in the above post. Those were my thoughts. I don't base any of my opinions on facts cause I ain't in the know either with CCS or WERA. But, at least I can talk with Sean at WERA when I have a gripe. Who the hell will listen at CCS? Nobody, I suspect. They're too busy managing their assets.

Troy-

SuperTwins and Unlimited GP expert are examples of purses paid by CMRA without sponsor support.

Troy-

SuperTwins and Unlimited GP expert are examples of purses paid by CMRA without sponsor support.

Okay I have read and reread all the comments on this, the CCS split and the CCS boss responses threads and as the "Pro-CCS guy" I guess I should make a couple of statements.
1. CCS was not owned by Clear Channl Entertainment (or AM-FM) at the time CMRA joined CCS it was owned by PACE, a music and spectator driven company that was then bought by SFX and shortly there after by Clear Channel a (billboard company up until that time) that also bought AM-FM (a radio station company). So to have been leery of CCE (or AM-FM) or that the FCC would open up radio ownership regulations when CMRA joined CCS is pretty far sighted and I wish I had that insight into company acquistions. :rolleyes:
2. all the national FUSA events are co-promoted with CCS events other than Loudon which is co-promoted with the track; a little different than CMRA-FUSA as FUSA had a set santioning fee at Loudon whereas Hallet was going to be 50/50 CMRA/CCS risk/profit I beleive I overheard and the was projected to lose money based on last years entries this year with increased entries it would turn a profit most likely. Speaking of which if there is so much more entries/profit why are we asked to pay for air fence, transponders, corner worker radios/scanners, and with purses slashed, compared to last year (which supposedly made a "profit") where is that money now going?
3. Since the research was not done (or at least spelled out to rest of membership) when questioned the entries for CCS Summit last year are thus
May 956 July 843 Sept 878 and just for ref WERA had a pretty decent turnout as well April 579 June 564 August (NCS)318 and just for other venues fro FUSA Daytona 1375/1360 MAM 683 VIR 842/814/1095 LRRS 925/1045/1108/1083/1007/880/1128/1052
4. To question why Kevin found out about CMRA/CCS split from internet bods the bigger question why did CMRA BOD go to meet with Kevin without scheduling a meeting and to think he would be in office during a FUSA national race 1000+ miles away
5. Now from all the things going on to say that the hand writing was not on the wall that the current BOD wanted to leave CCS affliation is correct. I saw it last year and was part of the frustration I had when I resigned. But on the other hand to not communicate the issues (which is assumtion based on the "meeting" to discuss CCS-CMRA affilation that did not occur and announcement to disolve made instead) that CMRA was having with CCS or their inablity or desire to make the changes leads one to beleive it was split that needed to happen. Last meeting was when Bill Syfan was still with FUSA in July of last year and and the CMRA sent only Nancy Selleck and Barry McMahon to the "Big Mac" and from the lack of comments from CMRA crew one would say that processes/rules/agenda of CCS was in line with CMRA's.
6. To say that CCS is only about the money is partly true it is a business and must turn a profit to survive. It does turn around and have the better grids in head to head competition, and largest contingency program as well as the largest purses of Amatuer racing (1k UGP Ex, 1k UGp Am, 1k Sportike Ex and then 500 X 6 GT classes for 6k per weekend), then they have added Electronic scoring to all races, so it does lead me to question the statements of "only in it for the money" they give back to racers more than any other organization does and I must say even more so then what the CMRA does, but the goals are different between a for-profit and a non-profit. The CMRA is able to achieve a lot of things with its lower than average average entries by virtue of its dedicated officials and volunteers that do more than one job and thus keep expenses under control. Other regions have at least a dozen more officials that must be paid when running an event so due to larger grids but some due to a person having a single job.
7. Which leads us to the future and the questions that sit out there. Are license fees going to remain the same? Entry fees? Insurance; will medical insurance be dropped as was hinted at previouly due to cost? Purses? Classes? Cross organization compatiablity? compatiablity to existing CMRA built machines? Contingency? Sponsors? we lost a lot this year what happens next year? other affliation? numbers? #1? (un)retired numbers? advertising? championship discounts?
granted some of these are questions that have to be dealt with each year but there has been a history of how they are handled and so may/maynot change for next year.

For the average racer as has been pointed out affliation may not seem to mean much and may in fact not mean anything but to the average official there is more things to deal with and for that is why I think affliation makes sense for a smaller club like ours as there is less stress on the already understaffed personel and they can deal with the things that are important for the the moment, track safety, orderly run races, scoring, etc not the day to day stuff that is "mass produced" for mutiple regions/events like continency recruitement/filing, insurance procurement/handling, rulebook, licensing, etc.So in that vein I think it means something to the average racer but I am just one racer and I have just one opinion among many and the majority (well I guess majority elected officials actually as pointed out earlier) have voted.

Waiting for answers. I prefer an informed populace as opposed to being told what is in my best interest. Just because of a dislike of some things does not mean that the overall package does not work, compromises in life are a given. I can see what we are losing but what are we gaining? Money? I cannot see a money gain unless the members are paying for something they will not get ie pay national level license fee for a regional series, services cut. Rules? we have been free to run our own races and modify our CCS run classes(to a limited extent) within the CCS program so I don't see that benefit. Contingency? CCS has strongest in the country, Don't see increase happening there but it could and we were free to get our own addtional contingigency sponsors before. Advertising? we did our own promotion of our events (thru 2001 when it seemed to die off; flyers, billboards, newspaper)before with some national supplememtal from CCS so negiable(sp?) change. I just see us having to deal with more things our self (or more importantly I think Nancy is going to be overloaded with the mountain of stuff she will have to deal with). I think it can be done but I just worry about burnout and who is going to handle many of the things in the not to distant future as was mentioned earlier fully quarter of the existing BOD cannot/will not run and of the remaining half will not be eligible next year.

Just a side note GLLRA was affliated with CCS and did not survive the return to independence, can we learn from their mistakes?

Okay I have read and reread all the comments on this, the CCS split and the CCS boss responses threads and as the "Pro-CCS guy" I guess I should make a couple of statements.
1. CCS was not owned by Clear Channl Entertainment (or AM-FM) at the time CMRA joined CCS it was owned by PACE, a music and spectator driven company that was then bought by SFX and shortly there after by Clear Channel a (billboard company up until that time) that also bought AM-FM (a radio station company). So to have been leery of CCE (or AM-FM) or that the FCC would open up radio ownership regulations when CMRA joined CCS is pretty far sighted and I wish I had that insight into company acquistions. :rolleyes:
2. all the national FUSA events are co-promoted with CCS events other than Loudon which is co-promoted with the track; a little different than CMRA-FUSA as FUSA had a set santioning fee at Loudon whereas Hallet was going to be 50/50 CMRA/CCS risk/profit I beleive I overheard and the was projected to lose money based on last years entries this year with increased entries it would turn a profit most likely. Speaking of which if there is so much more entries/profit why are we asked to pay for air fence, transponders, corner worker radios/scanners, and with purses slashed, compared to last year (which supposedly made a "profit") where is that money now going?
3. Since the research was not done (or at least spelled out to rest of membership) when questioned the entries for CCS Summit last year are thus
May 956 July 843 Sept 878 and just for ref WERA had a pretty decent turnout as well April 579 June 564 August (NCS)318 and just for other venues fro FUSA Daytona 1375/1360 MAM 683 VIR 842/814/1095 LRRS 925/1045/1108/1083/1007/880/1128/1052
4. To question why Kevin found out about CMRA/CCS split from internet bods the bigger question why did CMRA BOD go to meet with Kevin without scheduling a meeting and to think he would be in office during a FUSA national race 1000+ miles away
5. Now from all the things going on to say that the hand writing was not on the wall that the current BOD wanted to leave CCS affliation is correct. I saw it last year and was part of the frustration I had when I resigned. But on the other hand to not communicate the issues (which is assumtion based on the "meeting" to discuss CCS-CMRA affilation that did not occur and announcement to disolve made instead) that CMRA was having with CCS or their inablity or desire to make the changes leads one to beleive it was split that needed to happen. Last meeting was when Bill Syfan was still with FUSA in July of last year and and the CMRA sent only Nancy Selleck and Barry McMahon to the "Big Mac" and from the lack of comments from CMRA crew one would say that processes/rules/agenda of CCS was in line with CMRA's.
6. To say that CCS is only about the money is partly true it is a business and must turn a profit to survive. It does turn around and have the better grids in head to head competition, and largest contingency program as well as the largest purses of Amatuer racing (1k UGP Ex, 1k UGp Am, 1k Sportike Ex and then 500 X 6 GT classes for 6k per weekend), then they have added Electronic scoring to all races, so it does lead me to question the statements of "only in it for the money" they give back to racers more than any other organization does and I must say even more so then what the CMRA does, but the goals are different between a for-profit and a non-profit. The CMRA is able to achieve a lot of things with its lower than average average entries by virtue of its dedicated officials and volunteers that do more than one job and thus keep expenses under control. Other regions have at least a dozen more officials that must be paid when running an event so due to larger grids but some due to a person having a single job.
7. Which leads us to the future and the questions that sit out there. Are license fees going to remain the same? Entry fees? Insurance; will medical insurance be dropped as was hinted at previouly due to cost? Purses? Classes? Cross organization compatiablity? compatiablity to existing CMRA built machines? Contingency? Sponsors? we lost a lot this year what happens next year? other affliation? numbers? #1? (un)retired numbers? advertising? championship discounts?
granted some of these are questions that have to be dealt with each year but there has been a history of how they are handled and so may/maynot change for next year.

For the average racer as has been pointed out affliation may not seem to mean much and may in fact not mean anything but to the average official there is more things to deal with and for that is why I think affliation makes sense for a smaller club like ours as there is less stress on the already understaffed personel and they can deal with the things that are important for the the moment, track safety, orderly run races, scoring, etc not the day to day stuff that is "mass produced" for mutiple regions/events like continency recruitement/filing, insurance procurement/handling, rulebook, licensing, etc.So in that vein I think it means something to the average racer but I am just one racer and I have just one opinion among many and the majority (well I guess majority elected officials actually as pointed out earlier) have voted.

Waiting for answers. I prefer an informed populace as opposed to being told what is in my best interest. Just because of a dislike of some things does not mean that the overall package does not work, compromises in life are a given. I can see what we are losing but what are we gaining? Money? I cannot see a money gain unless the members are paying for something they will not get ie pay national level license fee for a regional series, services cut. Rules? we have been free to run our own races and modify our CCS run classes(to a limited extent) within the CCS program so I don't see that benefit. Contingency? CCS has strongest in the country, Don't see increase happening there but it could and we were free to get our own addtional contingigency sponsors before. Advertising? we did our own promotion of our events (thru 2001 when it seemed to die off; flyers, billboards, newspaper)before with some national supplememtal from CCS so negiable(sp?) change. I just see us having to deal with more things our self (or more importantly I think Nancy is going to be overloaded with the mountain of stuff she will have to deal with). I think it can be done but I just worry about burnout and who is going to handle many of the things in the not to distant future as was mentioned earlier fully quarter of the existing BOD cannot/will not run and of the remaining half will not be eligible next year.

Just a side note GLLRA was affliated with CCS and did not survive the return to independence, can we learn from their mistakes?