Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Originally posted by Marcus McBain:
1) With the largest (measured by entries) endurance series in the country, why have the OEM's stayed away from the CMRA endurance series?
Marcus McBain
I think wera is second in those things. This year I think they have us in hours raced unless we count all classes. I am pretty sure as it sits we were 1st and 3rd. with tmgp being 4th.
this year we are way down from them in hours raced.
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Originally posted by Marcus McBain:
1) With the largest (measured by entries) endurance series in the country, why have the OEM's stayed away from the CMRA endurance series?
Marcus McBain
I think wera is second in those things. This year I think they have us in hours raced unless we count all classes. I am pretty sure as it sits we were 1st and 3rd. with tmgp being 4th.
this year we are way down from them in hours raced.
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Originally posted by Glen Weir, ysr612:
Originally posted by Marcus McBain:
1) With the largest (measured by entries) endurance series in the country, why have the OEM's stayed away from the CMRA endurance series?
Marcus McBain
I think wera is second in those things. This year I think they have us in hours raced unless we count all classes. I am pretty sure as it sits we were 1st and 3rd. with tmgp being 4th.
this year we are way down from them in hours raced.
Marcus
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Originally posted by Glen Weir, ysr612:
Originally posted by Marcus McBain:
1) With the largest (measured by entries) endurance series in the country, why have the OEM's stayed away from the CMRA endurance series?
Marcus McBain
I think wera is second in those things. This year I think they have us in hours raced unless we count all classes. I am pretty sure as it sits we were 1st and 3rd. with tmgp being 4th.
this year we are way down from them in hours raced.
Marcus
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
I have moved the post below from the earlier thread because it contains some of my thoughts on the subject of sanctioning body affiliation. This is a subject to which the BOD has given quite a bit of thought. The CMRA spends over $25,000/year in sanctioning fees (half of all of our membership fees are shared with the sanctioning body).
I can tell you that the number of races held on a weekend or the total number of hours raced is a decision made by the BOD, not the sanctioning body.
Years before CCS and Roger Edmundson and FUSA and Pat Murphy, WERA was a huge national organization. The year-end get together at Road Atlanta saw pits filled further than the eye could see. With the event of competition, fragmentation and now consolidation, we have two national club-level sanctioning bodies, CCS(FUSA) and WERA. Two year-end events (Daytona and Rd. Atlanta). Two rulebooks that are not compatable with each other (which precludes in most cases bikes from being legal to race in both organizations).
I have some very well defined ideas about what I think could be done to make this two-headed system work better for the racer. At the end of the day though it comes down with me to what is the best thing to do for CMRA members. Don't you believe that the only consideration is whether the CMRA is better off being affiliaterd with one sanctioning body or the other. You'll get bogged down in discussions of whether Daytona or Road A is the best year-end event. The issues are bigger and the stakes higher than that. Look rather at the cost benefits of the relationships: contingencies, timing/scoring systems, national event participation, advertising, PR, insurance rates, rule books and so on.
Brooks
posted March 24, 2003 12:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not going to contribute to a discussion regarding the relative merits of the two major sanctioning bodies. My experience is limited to being familiar with the status of the CMRA as an Independent club and a club sanctioned by CCS.
I have no personal agenda regarding the club's affiliation. I am 100% dedicated to the advancement of the Central Motorcycle Roadracing Association, period. If it can be shown that it is to the CMRA's advantage to be aligned with a particular organization, or not, I am in favor of pursuing that alignment. If such an alignment proves to be of less advantage than originally percieved, I am all for evaluating the current situation on its own merits.
The subject of whether to be affiliated with a sanctioning body, rather than pursuing an independent course, is one that can only be asked by a roadracing club that is as strong as the CMRA. Many, including former staff members, will tell you that the CMRA has never had a better program than it did as an Independent organization. The rulebook that Charles Brothers wrote is still recognizerd as the best in the club's history.
The basic question regarding whether or not it is a good thing to be affiliated with a national sanctioning body comes down to a value proposition. Does the Club get its money's worth from the relationship? The next would be, can the CMRA obtain and administer its own contingency program on par, or above that provided by the payment of sanctioning fees? An analysis of the cost of insurance premiums offered under a sanctioning agreement versus those available independently and other ancillery "benefits" have to be studied carefully.
What prompted my posting to this thread however, has nothing directly to do with my original disclaimer, above. I am confused by the statement, "The FUSA series coming/not coming to South Central region was a choice not made by FUSA so direct blame/ credit where it is due". OK, I am ready to "direct blame", to whom should it be directed? I have met with three different parties in the CCS office (Ft. Worth) to ask that a national race be scheduled in our region, at one of our tracks. Why is the other sanctioning organization able to schedule and promote several national events in a year in this region and we can't get a single one through CCS/FUSA? I thought we were coming close year before last when Bill Syfan visited TWS for the purpose of evaluating that facility for a national event. Last year inquiries were made about Hallett. Guess what? We were told that a national event could be scheduled at Hallett IF the CMRA would guarantee one half (50%) of the budget required to hold the races. The budget? Sixty-Thousand Dollars ($60,000). In the parlance of the industry that is what is called a "co-pro" (co-promoted) deal.
How many of you would like to see the CMRA commit to an obligation of $30,000 to have the honor of "hosting" a national event? Sure, it "might" have worked out OK from a financial standpoint. But the CMRA is a roadracing club, not a financial juggernaught that is in the business of speculating on promotions.
I don't know if this is what is referred to above as being "a choice not made by FUSA". If it is not, again I would ask where to assign the "blame/credit".
On kind of the same subject, our members are being told everything in a candid and factual manner. We publish BOD minutes (never been done before as far as I know), financial summaries (another one is being prepared for publication now) and advance discussions regarding such topics as the issues of club-paid medical insurance. Perhaps there has not been as much of a discussion regarding the pros/cons of the current sanctioning arrangement as there should have been. I will apologize for this and attempt to begin laying out the costs/benefits to the CMRA of maintaining these types of relationships.
Brooks
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
I have moved the post below from the earlier thread because it contains some of my thoughts on the subject of sanctioning body affiliation. This is a subject to which the BOD has given quite a bit of thought. The CMRA spends over $25,000/year in sanctioning fees (half of all of our membership fees are shared with the sanctioning body).
I can tell you that the number of races held on a weekend or the total number of hours raced is a decision made by the BOD, not the sanctioning body.
Years before CCS and Roger Edmundson and FUSA and Pat Murphy, WERA was a huge national organization. The year-end get together at Road Atlanta saw pits filled further than the eye could see. With the event of competition, fragmentation and now consolidation, we have two national club-level sanctioning bodies, CCS(FUSA) and WERA. Two year-end events (Daytona and Rd. Atlanta). Two rulebooks that are not compatable with each other (which precludes in most cases bikes from being legal to race in both organizations).
I have some very well defined ideas about what I think could be done to make this two-headed system work better for the racer. At the end of the day though it comes down with me to what is the best thing to do for CMRA members. Don't you believe that the only consideration is whether the CMRA is better off being affiliaterd with one sanctioning body or the other. You'll get bogged down in discussions of whether Daytona or Road A is the best year-end event. The issues are bigger and the stakes higher than that. Look rather at the cost benefits of the relationships: contingencies, timing/scoring systems, national event participation, advertising, PR, insurance rates, rule books and so on.
Brooks
posted March 24, 2003 12:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not going to contribute to a discussion regarding the relative merits of the two major sanctioning bodies. My experience is limited to being familiar with the status of the CMRA as an Independent club and a club sanctioned by CCS.
I have no personal agenda regarding the club's affiliation. I am 100% dedicated to the advancement of the Central Motorcycle Roadracing Association, period. If it can be shown that it is to the CMRA's advantage to be aligned with a particular organization, or not, I am in favor of pursuing that alignment. If such an alignment proves to be of less advantage than originally percieved, I am all for evaluating the current situation on its own merits.
The subject of whether to be affiliated with a sanctioning body, rather than pursuing an independent course, is one that can only be asked by a roadracing club that is as strong as the CMRA. Many, including former staff members, will tell you that the CMRA has never had a better program than it did as an Independent organization. The rulebook that Charles Brothers wrote is still recognizerd as the best in the club's history.
The basic question regarding whether or not it is a good thing to be affiliated with a national sanctioning body comes down to a value proposition. Does the Club get its money's worth from the relationship? The next would be, can the CMRA obtain and administer its own contingency program on par, or above that provided by the payment of sanctioning fees? An analysis of the cost of insurance premiums offered under a sanctioning agreement versus those available independently and other ancillery "benefits" have to be studied carefully.
What prompted my posting to this thread however, has nothing directly to do with my original disclaimer, above. I am confused by the statement, "The FUSA series coming/not coming to South Central region was a choice not made by FUSA so direct blame/ credit where it is due". OK, I am ready to "direct blame", to whom should it be directed? I have met with three different parties in the CCS office (Ft. Worth) to ask that a national race be scheduled in our region, at one of our tracks. Why is the other sanctioning organization able to schedule and promote several national events in a year in this region and we can't get a single one through CCS/FUSA? I thought we were coming close year before last when Bill Syfan visited TWS for the purpose of evaluating that facility for a national event. Last year inquiries were made about Hallett. Guess what? We were told that a national event could be scheduled at Hallett IF the CMRA would guarantee one half (50%) of the budget required to hold the races. The budget? Sixty-Thousand Dollars ($60,000). In the parlance of the industry that is what is called a "co-pro" (co-promoted) deal.
How many of you would like to see the CMRA commit to an obligation of $30,000 to have the honor of "hosting" a national event? Sure, it "might" have worked out OK from a financial standpoint. But the CMRA is a roadracing club, not a financial juggernaught that is in the business of speculating on promotions.
I don't know if this is what is referred to above as being "a choice not made by FUSA". If it is not, again I would ask where to assign the "blame/credit".
On kind of the same subject, our members are being told everything in a candid and factual manner. We publish BOD minutes (never been done before as far as I know), financial summaries (another one is being prepared for publication now) and advance discussions regarding such topics as the issues of club-paid medical insurance. Perhaps there has not been as much of a discussion regarding the pros/cons of the current sanctioning arrangement as there should have been. I will apologize for this and attempt to begin laying out the costs/benefits to the CMRA of maintaining these types of relationships.
Brooks
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Originally posted by Jack Giesecke:
The top guys in the big classes worry about contingencies, most of us don't. Lower license fees and entries would be better for us.
Having said that, I would like to comment on Jack's subject of contingency. This is not something just for the "top guys"! Using endurance as my primary example, let's look at just Suzuki money currently given out in another (inferior) endurance series.
Suzuki pays in superstock classes:
1st $1,000
2nd $750
3rd $500
4th $150
5th $100
Add on another $500 for the superbike class win!
This is not only for the fastest guys!! The team pitted next to us at TWS finished 5th in class in their FIRST EVER endurance race.
Bent Racing won $2300 in cash in one race last year, not including certificates!
I just wanted to give everyone and idea how contingency CAN help everyone, not just the top guys.
I am not comparing clubs so much as trying to show the depths of the ranks that could qualify for some extra cash. A team finishing consistently in the top five with the aforementioned type of payout could make an extra $1000 per year in endurance!
I am not condoning affiliation, nor independence; just more money [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
The views expressed here are the personal views of Ty Stranger-Thorsen and do not necessarily represent the views of ICE Motorsports.
Thank you David Swarts for the disclaimer model.
Thank you BOD for your hard work and great decisions.
Ty
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Originally posted by Jack Giesecke:
The top guys in the big classes worry about contingencies, most of us don't. Lower license fees and entries would be better for us.
Having said that, I would like to comment on Jack's subject of contingency. This is not something just for the "top guys"! Using endurance as my primary example, let's look at just Suzuki money currently given out in another (inferior) endurance series.
Suzuki pays in superstock classes:
1st $1,000
2nd $750
3rd $500
4th $150
5th $100
Add on another $500 for the superbike class win!
This is not only for the fastest guys!! The team pitted next to us at TWS finished 5th in class in their FIRST EVER endurance race.
Bent Racing won $2300 in cash in one race last year, not including certificates!
I just wanted to give everyone and idea how contingency CAN help everyone, not just the top guys.
I am not comparing clubs so much as trying to show the depths of the ranks that could qualify for some extra cash. A team finishing consistently in the top five with the aforementioned type of payout could make an extra $1000 per year in endurance!
I am not condoning affiliation, nor independence; just more money [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
The views expressed here are the personal views of Ty Stranger-Thorsen and do not necessarily represent the views of ICE Motorsports.
Thank you David Swarts for the disclaimer model.
Thank you BOD for your hard work and great decisions.
Ty
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
I think this is an excellent topic. Without all the verbage, what REALLY is the advantage of being affiliated w/CCS for the average CMRA racer?
Bottom line it for me....I'm slow.
With respect,
Mitchel
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
I think this is an excellent topic. Without all the verbage, what REALLY is the advantage of being affiliated w/CCS for the average CMRA racer?
Bottom line it for me....I'm slow.
With respect,
Mitchel
