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Blakes suggestion? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]Quote:Most people respond well to visually based instruction. A summary of corner working guidelines for the new/inexperienced people working to protect us at the racetrack might be helpful.
Blakes suggestion? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]Quote:Most people respond well to visually based instruction. A summary of corner working guidelines for the new/inexperienced people working to protect us at the racetrack might be helpful.
there is a cornerworker meeting both mornings where barry goes over every flag and what one should do in any event. If Blake had listened the day he was there he would know this. barry does a good job at this. What each person picks up from this morning lesson is up to the individual. seems he has lit a fire and walked off.
there is a cornerworker meeting both mornings where barry goes over every flag and what one should do in any event. If Blake had listened the day he was there he would know this. barry does a good job at this. What each person picks up from this morning lesson is up to the individual. seems he has lit a fire and walked off.
barry does that every race morning allready.Quote:Originally posted by Rick Chapman:
Blakes suggestion? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]Quote:Most people respond well to visually based instruction. A summary of corner working guidelines for the new/inexperienced people working to protect us at the racetrack might be helpful.
barry does that every race morning allready.Quote:Originally posted by Rick Chapman:
Blakes suggestion? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]Quote:Most people respond well to visually based instruction. A summary of corner working guidelines for the new/inexperienced people working to protect us at the racetrack might be helpful.
My 10 year old son had to work corners at TWS to lose his yellow shirt. How much can a 10 year old do working corners? He did hold the flag when I retreaved a knee slider from the middle of the track. But he got an idea of what other people do so he can race. I tried to tell every corner worker "thank you" that has picked my butt up after a getoff. Barry was there Sat. after my son's bike quit and he fell over because he didn't get his foot down. He was there to make sure he was fine. Barry and Claire put in many hours for us to race. Everyone at CMRA work there butts off for us.
Thank you to each and everyone that get in there and works so we can play.
Darnell Dorsey #74 EX
Marcus Dorsey #74 MINI
My 10 year old son had to work corners at TWS to lose his yellow shirt. How much can a 10 year old do working corners? He did hold the flag when I retreaved a knee slider from the middle of the track. But he got an idea of what other people do so he can race. I tried to tell every corner worker "thank you" that has picked my butt up after a getoff. Barry was there Sat. after my son's bike quit and he fell over because he didn't get his foot down. He was there to make sure he was fine. Barry and Claire put in many hours for us to race. Everyone at CMRA work there butts off for us.
Thank you to each and everyone that get in there and works so we can play.
Darnell Dorsey #74 EX
Marcus Dorsey #74 MINI
WOW!!! I'm surprised that my intended point and what I thought were simple friendly suggestions could be so misinterpreted and generate such venomous responses. Let me try to restate my point for those here who seem to want to assign words to my mouth that I did not say and meanings to my words that I in no way intended...
Me see bag flag work. Bad flag work make danger. Danger bad. Me not like danger. Me say look at danger. Me want help fix danger. Me friend. Me say maybe how help prevent danger. Me not blame. Me not slam. Me say Barry good. Me say Clair good. Me like Barry. Me like Claire. Me say Barry and Claire very VERY GOOD!
Me so misunderstood. Me sad. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] Me cry now.
NOT!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] :p
Really, how on earth some of you here can read my statements that "Barry and Claire do an admirable job given their resources. Maybe they could use some additional resources?" and twist them into some kind of character attack is beyond my comprehension. I guess my communicaton skills are severely lacking. I'll try to be more positive and constructive in the futures. Thanks to those here who recognized my true friendly good intentions. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
I can definitely see where I should have clarified my suggestion. By "visual instruction" I was thinking of a few simple basic diagrams showing proper flag person positioning versus various crash locations/situation. I'm certainly no expert in corner working and track safety, but I'd be happy to sketch a few instructional examples for others to critique and improve upon. Once complete and approved by Barry, I'd be happy to provide giant versions printed up and laminated for Barry to use as visual aids during his instructional classes along with smaller laminated individual reference cards for each corner.
If the supply of corner workers for OHR is a problem I'd be willing to create and distribute placards to local moto related businesses, and to some churches and to Kilgore college. I'm sure others local to the other three tracks would be willing to do likewise in their neighborhood.
One more point that I think some here are confused about... Some seem to imagine that the corner workers' most significant contribution is to come to the aid of downed riders. I disagree. It seems to me that by far the most vital and most prevalent contribution made by the corner workers is to warn and protect racers who are approaching a hazardous situation. The main way to do so is to quickly and properly display and position the applicable flag. Am I wrong?
Mr. Dibble,
Thank you for YOUR thoughtful and constructive suggestions.
Peace, love, and lower lap times,
WOW!!! I'm surprised that my intended point and what I thought were simple friendly suggestions could be so misinterpreted and generate such venomous responses. Let me try to restate my point for those here who seem to want to assign words to my mouth that I did not say and meanings to my words that I in no way intended...
Me see bag flag work. Bad flag work make danger. Danger bad. Me not like danger. Me say look at danger. Me want help fix danger. Me friend. Me say maybe how help prevent danger. Me not blame. Me not slam. Me say Barry good. Me say Clair good. Me like Barry. Me like Claire. Me say Barry and Claire very VERY GOOD!
Me so misunderstood. Me sad. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] Me cry now.
NOT!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] :p
Really, how on earth some of you here can read my statements that "Barry and Claire do an admirable job given their resources. Maybe they could use some additional resources?" and twist them into some kind of character attack is beyond my comprehension. I guess my communicaton skills are severely lacking. I'll try to be more positive and constructive in the futures. Thanks to those here who recognized my true friendly good intentions. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
I can definitely see where I should have clarified my suggestion. By "visual instruction" I was thinking of a few simple basic diagrams showing proper flag person positioning versus various crash locations/situation. I'm certainly no expert in corner working and track safety, but I'd be happy to sketch a few instructional examples for others to critique and improve upon. Once complete and approved by Barry, I'd be happy to provide giant versions printed up and laminated for Barry to use as visual aids during his instructional classes along with smaller laminated individual reference cards for each corner.
If the supply of corner workers for OHR is a problem I'd be willing to create and distribute placards to local moto related businesses, and to some churches and to Kilgore college. I'm sure others local to the other three tracks would be willing to do likewise in their neighborhood.
One more point that I think some here are confused about... Some seem to imagine that the corner workers' most significant contribution is to come to the aid of downed riders. I disagree. It seems to me that by far the most vital and most prevalent contribution made by the corner workers is to warn and protect racers who are approaching a hazardous situation. The main way to do so is to quickly and properly display and position the applicable flag. Am I wrong?
Mr. Dibble,
Thank you for YOUR thoughtful and constructive suggestions.
Peace, love, and lower lap times,
Posted for my girlfriend Marian -
A few random thoughts about corner workers:
I haven't worked corners yet this season - I'm not a racer and I didn't/don't need to. I did it last year because I really enjoyed doing it. I'm sure I'll work again this season, [now if only I could clone myself to help the boys out in the pits too!]. Barry, Claire, Ted, Walter, CrashTruckLarry are all great to work with. Not to mention that the corners are also some of the best places to watch the action up close and personal!
The training that is given to the corner workers is early in the morning - by that time of course Barry, Claire and other track officials have been at it for a while. The training is short, yes, but given that you have a reasonable dose of common sense, it is clear and easy to understand. Should you happen to be uncertain which flag to waive or not hear the call immediately, there is the eternally calm Ted giving you instructions on the radio to help you out.
There is one radio per corner worker station. It is difficult to hear everything said clearly even when there are no bikes going by. If there is a mishap at the corner, the flag person runs to the edge of the track [as close as is safe] and is then far removed from the person with the radio [who has sprinted off to the rider/motorcycle]. Since the flag person does not have a radio they have no way of knowing if different a flag needs to be shown, or if the flag they are currently holding needs to be waived. A solution to this may be to supply each corner worker with a radio and headset so that they can hear every call being made and possibly react faster.
A suggestion to get more people involved might be to break corner worker shifts into four groups, two shifts per day on Saturday and Sunday. Granted there are details about this plan that don't make it entirely feasible, perhaps it will spawn other [better] ideas. Make it mandatory for EVERYONE to corner work at least one shift per racing season - pros and [lots of] cons for this, but again perhaps it will spark an idea in someone.
Thumbs up or waving on cool down lap - may seem silly to you as a rider, but [speaking strictly for myself] it makes me at least feel as though you appreciate the work that's being done.
Marian Krugers
Affiliated with:
#51 EX
#49 EX
#59 EX
#69 EX
#153 AM
#82 Endurance - Short Bus
#3 Endurance - Village Idiots
Posted for my girlfriend Marian -
A few random thoughts about corner workers:
I haven't worked corners yet this season - I'm not a racer and I didn't/don't need to. I did it last year because I really enjoyed doing it. I'm sure I'll work again this season, [now if only I could clone myself to help the boys out in the pits too!]. Barry, Claire, Ted, Walter, CrashTruckLarry are all great to work with. Not to mention that the corners are also some of the best places to watch the action up close and personal!
The training that is given to the corner workers is early in the morning - by that time of course Barry, Claire and other track officials have been at it for a while. The training is short, yes, but given that you have a reasonable dose of common sense, it is clear and easy to understand. Should you happen to be uncertain which flag to waive or not hear the call immediately, there is the eternally calm Ted giving you instructions on the radio to help you out.
There is one radio per corner worker station. It is difficult to hear everything said clearly even when there are no bikes going by. If there is a mishap at the corner, the flag person runs to the edge of the track [as close as is safe] and is then far removed from the person with the radio [who has sprinted off to the rider/motorcycle]. Since the flag person does not have a radio they have no way of knowing if different a flag needs to be shown, or if the flag they are currently holding needs to be waived. A solution to this may be to supply each corner worker with a radio and headset so that they can hear every call being made and possibly react faster.
A suggestion to get more people involved might be to break corner worker shifts into four groups, two shifts per day on Saturday and Sunday. Granted there are details about this plan that don't make it entirely feasible, perhaps it will spawn other [better] ideas. Make it mandatory for EVERYONE to corner work at least one shift per racing season - pros and [lots of] cons for this, but again perhaps it will spark an idea in someone.
Thumbs up or waving on cool down lap - may seem silly to you as a rider, but [speaking strictly for myself] it makes me at least feel as though you appreciate the work that's being done.
Marian Krugers
Affiliated with:
#51 EX
#49 EX
#59 EX
#69 EX
#153 AM
#82 Endurance - Short Bus
#3 Endurance - Village Idiots
blake hate to say this but by putting out flyers to the local towns you're not getting any better cornerworkers than what you have already. some sort of incentive to get the good ones back is something to think of. maybe you can start doing it when you aren't racing, we do when we can. I enjoy this club and try to help out if i can with what i've got. Like i said before someone was donating gift cards for meals last year which was pretty cool. any other suggestions?
blake hate to say this but by putting out flyers to the local towns you're not getting any better cornerworkers than what you have already. some sort of incentive to get the good ones back is something to think of. maybe you can start doing it when you aren't racing, we do when we can. I enjoy this club and try to help out if i can with what i've got. Like i said before someone was donating gift cards for meals last year which was pretty cool. any other suggestions?
Rob,
You no read good. Me no say get better workers. Me say if need MORE workers, advertising good help. Me offer help.
Rob,
You no read good. Me no say get better workers. Me say if need MORE workers, advertising good help. Me offer help.
Blake, I appologize for my perceived ripping but it cam from your perceived *****ing.
If you read a little further down you'll see I actually said that this is as much your club as it is mine and you do have the right to offer suggestions and opinions. I obviously wasn't the only one who possibly missinterprited your post.
I still retain that offer suggestions, not
negitive observations of a single incedent.
That being said......
I actually LIKE your college kid sugestion.
At local colleges near the tracks if you could get it on the employment bullitin boards of the
common area's that they could not only see a extreme sport close up but get to particapate,
get fed AND paid I think you'd actually get quite a few willing respondants.
The trick is getting poeple from the club in those area's with pre-made up and approved fliers in their hands to put them in place.
Now mind you the quality may not be much better
as previously stated BUT you are correct about
possible benifit of quantity.
I agree what some one said about radios also.
I worked T8a during the 6 hour last year
because I knew they needed help and I had
no other obligations. 1 radio adn 2 people
seperated by 20 - 50 yards during a
occurance of a laps of gravity with a rider
can be a little hard to comunicate. The
person checking on the rider needs the radio to
inform race control and the flagger needs to
know when and if to throw a red.
Again "I appologize" for misinterpreting your intentions.
You do the same and we'll all make nice.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
Blake, I appologize for my perceived ripping but it cam from your perceived *****ing.
If you read a little further down you'll see I actually said that this is as much your club as it is mine and you do have the right to offer suggestions and opinions. I obviously wasn't the only one who possibly missinterprited your post.
I still retain that offer suggestions, not
negitive observations of a single incedent.
That being said......
I actually LIKE your college kid sugestion.
At local colleges near the tracks if you could get it on the employment bullitin boards of the
common area's that they could not only see a extreme sport close up but get to particapate,
get fed AND paid I think you'd actually get quite a few willing respondants.
The trick is getting poeple from the club in those area's with pre-made up and approved fliers in their hands to put them in place.
Now mind you the quality may not be much better
as previously stated BUT you are correct about
possible benifit of quantity.
I agree what some one said about radios also.
I worked T8a during the 6 hour last year
because I knew they needed help and I had
no other obligations. 1 radio adn 2 people
seperated by 20 - 50 yards during a
occurance of a laps of gravity with a rider
can be a little hard to comunicate. The
person checking on the rider needs the radio to
inform race control and the flagger needs to
know when and if to throw a red.
Again "I appologize" for misinterpreting your intentions.
You do the same and we'll all make nice.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
nice reply blake, emmit you are right. try working a crash in turn 3 at ohr. real story. rider goes down coming out of turn 3. flagger runs to entrance of 3 with yellow flag at sight of crash beginning. another bike runs over first bike and debris is everywhere with both bikes still on track. with all the noise and distance flagger joe can't hear pickup crashed guys joe hollering for waving yellow or debris flag and can't see him thru the trees. multiple radios would help. maybe someone can get us the hookup on more radios as i know they are expensive. My apologies to blake but one responds strongly when they feel they are being attacked. maybe a little different wording or just make all your posts caveman style like your last reply so all of us with prior head injuries can understand. ha ha
nice reply blake, emmit you are right. try working a crash in turn 3 at ohr. real story. rider goes down coming out of turn 3. flagger runs to entrance of 3 with yellow flag at sight of crash beginning. another bike runs over first bike and debris is everywhere with both bikes still on track. with all the noise and distance flagger joe can't hear pickup crashed guys joe hollering for waving yellow or debris flag and can't see him thru the trees. multiple radios would help. maybe someone can get us the hookup on more radios as i know they are expensive. My apologies to blake but one responds strongly when they feel they are being attacked. maybe a little different wording or just make all your posts caveman style like your last reply so all of us with prior head injuries can understand. ha ha
Blake, when you see something that you think is a danger out on the track, don't wait until Monday to post it on the MB, come and tell me or go to one of the officials and let them know. We can not correct something the day after it happens. It needs to be delt with at the time.
As far as more corner workers, we just need the ones that say they are coming to work to show up.
We would love for there to be 2 radio's at every corner, but at this time we don't have the equipment. The radio's are very expensive and the club is trying very hard to get an electronic scoring system for you guys without having to raise your fee's. So we will deal with what we have.
Just remember, if you see something you think needs to be corrected, don't wait until the day after the races, let us know when it is happening so it can be corrected.
Marian, we have missed you. Come back anytime.
Claire
Blake, when you see something that you think is a danger out on the track, don't wait until Monday to post it on the MB, come and tell me or go to one of the officials and let them know. We can not correct something the day after it happens. It needs to be delt with at the time.
As far as more corner workers, we just need the ones that say they are coming to work to show up.
We would love for there to be 2 radio's at every corner, but at this time we don't have the equipment. The radio's are very expensive and the club is trying very hard to get an electronic scoring system for you guys without having to raise your fee's. So we will deal with what we have.
Just remember, if you see something you think needs to be corrected, don't wait until the day after the races, let us know when it is happening so it can be corrected.
Marian, we have missed you. Come back anytime.
Claire
Man, too much to catch up when you stay at OH an extra day!!!
For as long as I can remember, we have always had a cornerworker or two (or three) blow something serious. We have had race directors make bad calls.
It is hard to keep up the highest levels of service when there is little or no compensation/reward/recognition. It is going to happen. As the "Air Fence" guy for WERA/SC Region, I have been called out to look at the Air Fence 2 minutes before my race. I honestly thought to myself, "WTF, I wanna race!!!". As much as I have supported the Air Fence, I really could have cared less about it at that moment. Luckily, common sense prevailed in that situation. With the heat, long work hours, and other variables, the fact our cornerworkers don't walk off the track to go home is amazing. It is another of the thankless jobs in motorcycle racing.
I think there are two immediate things we can do that will help. At RideSmart, Dave and I instituted rewards for cornerworkers that identified problems during sessions that could be percieved as dangerous. Additionally, we have a roving "corner marshall" that travels to the corners to keep the interest level of the cornerworkers "up".
I think the CMRA would do well to have two or three "corner workers of the weekend" that would provide a free race entry or other compensation that would not come from the CMRA bottom line.
I also hope that next year we have only one club in the region. I believe the WERA regional presence still being in this region with CMRA/CCS is an extra burden on enthusiats that might do CMRA/CCS races instead of WERA SC races.
Marcus
Man, too much to catch up when you stay at OH an extra day!!!
For as long as I can remember, we have always had a cornerworker or two (or three) blow something serious. We have had race directors make bad calls.
It is hard to keep up the highest levels of service when there is little or no compensation/reward/recognition. It is going to happen. As the "Air Fence" guy for WERA/SC Region, I have been called out to look at the Air Fence 2 minutes before my race. I honestly thought to myself, "WTF, I wanna race!!!". As much as I have supported the Air Fence, I really could have cared less about it at that moment. Luckily, common sense prevailed in that situation. With the heat, long work hours, and other variables, the fact our cornerworkers don't walk off the track to go home is amazing. It is another of the thankless jobs in motorcycle racing.
I think there are two immediate things we can do that will help. At RideSmart, Dave and I instituted rewards for cornerworkers that identified problems during sessions that could be percieved as dangerous. Additionally, we have a roving "corner marshall" that travels to the corners to keep the interest level of the cornerworkers "up".
I think the CMRA would do well to have two or three "corner workers of the weekend" that would provide a free race entry or other compensation that would not come from the CMRA bottom line.
I also hope that next year we have only one club in the region. I believe the WERA regional presence still being in this region with CMRA/CCS is an extra burden on enthusiats that might do CMRA/CCS races instead of WERA SC races.
Marcus
Claire,
You are right, I should have advised someone of the problem as soon as I saw it. My bad. Thanks for your guidance. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
Claire,
You are right, I should have advised someone of the problem as soon as I saw it. My bad. Thanks for your guidance. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
Marcus, we had three 'roaming' corner workers at Oak Hill.
Walter, Barry N, and Barry M all ride out to corners to asses situations, and work with the corner workers if needed. They also speak with them on the spot if something needs to be improved.
I also walked out to turn 5 to speak with one of the corner workers. In the past, Brooks has gone out and worked a corner for a few races as well.
This weekend, many corners had 3 workers.
This is a far cry from times at both clubs where there have been one corner worker in a corner.
We've come a long way, and continue to improve. The consistency of Barry being there has helped, and we strive for the best program we can achieve.
Marcus, we had three 'roaming' corner workers at Oak Hill.
Walter, Barry N, and Barry M all ride out to corners to asses situations, and work with the corner workers if needed. They also speak with them on the spot if something needs to be improved.
I also walked out to turn 5 to speak with one of the corner workers. In the past, Brooks has gone out and worked a corner for a few races as well.
This weekend, many corners had 3 workers.
This is a far cry from times at both clubs where there have been one corner worker in a corner.
We've come a long way, and continue to improve. The consistency of Barry being there has helped, and we strive for the best program we can achieve.
Barry spends most of his day, when there are no downed bikes, checking on the workers. He keeps them supplied with water and anything else they need. He has been doing this for the past 6 years.
Claire
Barry spends most of his day, when there are no downed bikes, checking on the workers. He keeps them supplied with water and anything else they need. He has been doing this for the past 6 years.
Claire
Radios: Do we need new ones? Do we need more units? Are we having to use a couple of different types just to keep the system flanged together?
Yes, yes and yes.
Let's not even get into the whole timing/scoring system discussion.
The club must have updated electronic equipment, including timing/scoring software, to remain viable. The BOD has been exploring all options in ths regard. Our sanctioning body informed me earlier this year that they would A. let us piggyback on their purchase of a new system to get a favorable price (I never heard another single word on this subject, but I understand their proposed purchase was never consumated. Wonder how that figures into the fact that they raised their rider's entry fees by $5.00 to cover the purchase of a brand new system?) or B. the CMRA would be furnished with a timing/scoring system (never another word about this either).
These last remarks are not directly related to this thread but they are meant to inform the membership about the ongoing struggle to determine the available options to acquire equipment that will make our race weekends go more smoothly.
Brooks
Radios: Do we need new ones? Do we need more units? Are we having to use a couple of different types just to keep the system flanged together?
Yes, yes and yes.
Let's not even get into the whole timing/scoring system discussion.
The club must have updated electronic equipment, including timing/scoring software, to remain viable. The BOD has been exploring all options in ths regard. Our sanctioning body informed me earlier this year that they would A. let us piggyback on their purchase of a new system to get a favorable price (I never heard another single word on this subject, but I understand their proposed purchase was never consumated. Wonder how that figures into the fact that they raised their rider's entry fees by $5.00 to cover the purchase of a brand new system?) or B. the CMRA would be furnished with a timing/scoring system (never another word about this either).
These last remarks are not directly related to this thread but they are meant to inform the membership about the ongoing struggle to determine the available options to acquire equipment that will make our race weekends go more smoothly.
Brooks
Bryan just mentioned something interesting. For those of us that only participate in a few races on Sunday it sounds like it might be helpful to spend some spare time helping out at one of the busier corners.
Would that be helpful?
Can we procure headsets for all corners when purchasing new radios? It is nearly impossible to clear debris or downed bikes and hold/operate a radio simultaneously.
Maybe some less expensive receive-only units for the flag persons?
Bryan just mentioned something interesting. For those of us that only participate in a few races on Sunday it sounds like it might be helpful to spend some spare time helping out at one of the busier corners.
Would that be helpful?
Can we procure headsets for all corners when purchasing new radios? It is nearly impossible to clear debris or downed bikes and hold/operate a radio simultaneously.
Maybe some less expensive receive-only units for the flag persons?
Thats Why I asked whats Control frequency.
The flagger only needs a moniter. The person
tending to the rider needs to be able to comunicate with control.
Thats Why I asked whats Control frequency.
The flagger only needs a moniter. The person
tending to the rider needs to be able to comunicate with control.