Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Corder
Beat me to it. I saw that this morning, it must be the new thing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Corder
Beat me to it. I saw that this morning, it must be the new thing.
Being able to "gleam some details..." is definitely a new thing ;-)
Honda, a day late and a dollar short.
...and a cylinder short:/Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasey Lewis
RD350/400 legal for the 500SS class?
i vote from the more the merrier angle...
this could be the most eclectic grid in the tri-state area...
Magic question was asked as soon as I knew about the class, LOL. The opinion of 6 mini racers I had lunch with today is, if you could please take this into consideration, is to stick with the mini tracks / short course configuration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Shaddock
The smaller the course, the lesser the impact of the power differential in lap times, and the lesser the closing speeds of bikes with significant power differences. I race "mini's" primarily because of my (and my wife's, and my mother's...) perception that they are safer overall than big bikes.
So far, I think Walter is approaching this with the right mindset. But now is the time to start buying for the next season and the sooner info is available the better.
If so I am building one tomorrow, LOL! Got a buddy that has the parts to make em, and we've tossed the idea around a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Hertell
I haz RZ350. I can play too?
isnt that a 2T with power valves ?!
Finally, someone hit the nail. RZ's and RD's. They were all street production bikes when introduced. Yo, John there's your 2-T's that will really compete with the new KTM and a finely tuned CBR 500 that has gone on a major diet.
[Please pretend this is written with a John Black level of light-hearted cool. I'm coming up short]
Jesse, I think you're a wee bit off on the current F4s winning the over all against 250s (too few good riders on them[ouch]). Alan's TWS fastest on our bike, a full 100cc, is a 23.9 with a tail wind. What's his fastest on yours? If it's a 23.9 that would put him 3 seconds slower that Ryan with no tail wind. Is Andrews that much faster than Alan? :D I know TWS is the biggest and the fastest and we'll have a better chance on the tighter tracks but wide open the 100 can't quite run with the 250. That said, I don't really care to run with the 250s. I want a 2stroke that can run for overall. I don't like being passed by lesser racers on faster bikes. 125mx 2strokes can bore close to 170 I believe. That leaves a lot of room to start with water cooled stock displacement 125mx motors in gp chassis and add higher displacement limits if Walter sees proof the 125 is too small (ie. some lead rider can't run with the lead group) without having to buy new motors.
PS, love where this is all going. I know there won't be a lot of people racing 2 strokes. I'm not looking for a class win in a small class. Overall is really all that matters.
Mr. Joe. This is Kevin Johnson. We used the KX 85/100 mini motard in the mini endurances a few years ago. At TWS we had the power valve wired wide open because we were on the pipe so long it didn't make sense to have any low end power. However at the shorter tracks we did have the power valve operational. This power valve on the 2009 MX motor we had was production based. Just like the RZ 350's. Having a power valve in a two stroke doesn't matter if you take into account the torque of the 500's, 400's, and 250s'. which are all 4-t's. I personally have ridden both and the 250 had a lot of low end power. So I think it would be nice to ride a screaming 2 stroke in a field of 4 strokes. I believe in the phrase: If it don't breath pre-mix, than it ain't a true racer.
Forget about the RZ's I am serious about the RD platform though.
Walter?
I bought a CBR500R for a commuter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Orr
Has enough power to be interesting but still gets 60-70 MPG
Smooth power curve that picks up over 4500RPM. Red line -8500
Honda got the geometry right on the bike - the bike feels & turns well (if a bit heavy at 428 lbs wet)
Seating position is pretty low
Unfortunately, the forks & shock are not race (or sport riding) ready - very poor for a 175lb rider (and that's being kind)
Expect to spend $1500 - $2000 on upgraded suspension.
Roger put springs & emulators in my forks & the front end was greatly improved & confidence inspiring ($460)
OEM shock is trash. :(
JRI is working on building a double clicker & triple clicker shock for the bike.
Ohlins makes a shock - a double clicker altho is is not listed on their web site
Supposedly you can get Andreani 20mm cartridge units thru Ohlins - don't know much about them except they are around a grand installed by Ohlins
Rear sets will bring up the pegs & give GP shift. No easy way to GP shift OEM shift linkage
Gilles and Moth Racing (Thailand) are only manufactures offering them now - Vortex says 6 weeks before they offer theirs
The Moth rear-sets flex more than normal Vortex - they are pretty lightweight
And who knows if you can get replacement parts
May be better to stock a couple of spare sets
Clip-ons are suggested because the OEM bars are very high.
Unfortunately there is not much space to work with in that area - again Moth Racing offers clamps & bars that work
(any 7/8" replacement bar would work with their clamps)
Race body work ? ...Haven't seen anyone making anything yet that you can get in the US
Looks like you're gotta have to build a fiberglass belly pan to catch fluids
Several exhausts are available - take your pick
Not much in the way of performance upgrades - maybe 1 or 2 HP with full exhaust & Power commander on pump gas
Sub frame is bolted on so it's replaceable for crash repairs
Gas cap is not hinged like a standard Honda cap.
The whole cap comes off tank for fueling
Engine case protectors are made by Moth Racing
Have not seen any one else making any for the bike
That's what I've learned, so far, about the CBR500R in the few months I've owned one
Oh - link to CBR500 European Junior cup bike
http://www.europeanjuniorcup.com/ejc/cbr500r/
They claim 54 bhp at the wheel on race gas
-BK
Update:
Sharkskinz now offering CBR500R race bodywork
link:
http://sharkskinz.com/cbr500.aspx
I did find out last week that it would be next fall, at the earliest, before the KTM 390 makes it to the United States.
I would like to test ride one !Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Howard
You might start a list now, Ty. ;)
If they send me a demo everyone can take a turn.
1. Moi!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Howard
1. Moi! (Heinz)
2. Michael
3. Daisy
1. Moi! (Heinz)
2. Michael
3. Daisy
4. Kasey
Will the new Harley-Davidson 500 meet the requirements for the 500 Superstock class..?
1. Moi! (Heinz)
2. Michael
3. Daisy
4. Kasey
5. Bill K
They released the specs on the KTM today http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2014-ktm-rc390/ Definitely a cool little bike. It's about the same spec as an Aprilia RS-250 Cup bike so I think maybe the Cup bike fits into this class (if anyone were inclined to race one)... About the same weight, Cup bike makes a little more peak HP. Just a thought...
i really don't think the KTM will be much of a match for the 500s. id be real surprised if it weren't just barely faster than a 300 ninja in race trim.
Update:
LW Sprint and Endurance Update:
We've been giving these classes quite a bit of thought over the last few weeks and this is what we come up with so far.
Formula 4:
The four stroke displacement limit will be raised to 180cc. The two-stroke displacement limit will be raised to 112cc.
250 Superstock:
The class rules will remain the same as its predecessor ESS. The only addition will be that F4 machines will now be allowed in 250SS.
300 and 500 Superstock:
We are leaning toward making these classes full spec classes. The following rules will spply if we go thiis route.
1) engines will be inspected and sealed at the season opener or upon entry into the series.
2) only spec exhaust systems or slipons will be allowed.
3) only spec fuel management systems will be allowed.
No quick shifters.
4) fork internals and shock may be modified or replaced with aftermarket. Suspension linkages must remain OEM.
5) handlebars and hand/foot controls may be modified or replaced with aftermarket. Mastercylinders must remain OEM.
6) bodywork may be replaced with aftermarket.
7) drive chain and sprockets may be replaced with aftermarket.
Things being considered:
1) minimum weight
2) spec gearing
3) spec fuel
4) spec tire (not likely for the 2014 season)
Update:
All machines will be required to have front brake lever guards.
Update:
Endurance pit stops, any and all work performed on the machine must be completed before refueling may commence.
Update:
Endurance race starts, all endurance machines must be on the starting grid or false grid no later than 10 mins before the scheduled race start time. Tire warmers and generators will be allowed.
I like the idea of a spec class, in general, especially the lack of engine mods, weight limit, and spec fuel. Hopefully, some of the above will be considered...Any chance of throwing in a doubleheader or two for the spec class and/or a couple extra laps? One downside to this class, is the commitment to a new bike for only one short sprint on Sat(I do understand the time constraints, though).Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
will the spec nature of the 500 class apply to all of the machinery, or, will the antique machines that may be coming out of the woodwork for this class be allowed a little leeway?
Just curious about why this was clarified, or how it differs from the current rule:Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
Unless you literally mean that the bike can only be worked on before refueling, and not after :twitch:Quote:
The rider must be off the bike and the machine must be on a service stand and engine turned off before refueling begins, and the machine must remain in this state until refueling ends.
No work of any kind whatsoever (including tire inspection or pressure check) may be done on
the bike during refueling.
Is this ALL machines? Meaning every race bike?Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
The displacement bump for F4 machines is intended make the true F4 machine more competitive with the EX250s. As of right now with riders being equal they are not. We are only talking about a 12cc bump for 2 strokes and a 30cc bump for 4 strokes. These mods are available in kit form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Max Johnson
As for the things be considered list
1) yes rider and bike
2) we will gather info from the top riders and make a decision. (Likely a 2015 thing if it happens) nothing new for spec series. AMA XR1200 for example.
3) correct pump gas
4) this is an option only if a tire brand steped up to sponsor the class or classes. Shouldn't cause an issue with contracted riders as it would be a requirement of the class. (Likely 2015 if it happens)
That's exactly what we have in mind for race lengths and format. Maybe even qualifying.
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Windham
Oops I left out a word. Should say "all race machines".Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Pence
Sorry John, but no other machines will be allowed in these classes at this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Black
I know you meant that but is that in reference to every race bike or just the classes mentioned (the new ones).Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
Thanks for the update, Walter. Will the 112cc F4 limit be the only 2 stroke? Is there any interest in a 2 stroke capable of endurance wins?
All race machines in all classes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Pence
This I would happily say only bike. As my other half would tell you, for the smaller riders, it can be difficult to safely add a lot of ballast to a bike to make bike/rider minimum weight. Something to consider. I know different series, but that rule basically knocked her out of running in ASRA Thunderbike. She would have had to add something like 60 lbs to the 1000DS to make weight. I don't know how you'd safely add that much weight to a bike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
The GS500 and EX500 will still be allowed, yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
If they have been raced previously, then the majority have had mods done that might push them outside of the spec nature of this class... Specifically chassis mods and perhaps a piece or two cut off... Things that made those dinosaurs handle decently but probably still not the match of a modern bike... What is your feeling for those bikes?
Ok, somehow I got lost here...
So now F4 is not going to include the baby Ninja or any of the bikes that formerly ran the F4 class?Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
That doesn't make sense when you say this:
If the EX250 can't run F4, why is it important to make a "true F4" bike more competitive with the EX250?Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
Also now my Aprilia RS125 is only going to be legal for the 250 class to race in? To me, and probably only me, the RS125 is the perfect bike for F4 and then can race up to the 250 class.
Tom, I can see how this is a bit confusing since its out of the context of the actual rulebook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Anderson
To clarify.
The F4 SPRINT CLASS will be unchanged from this season other than the increase in displacement limits that I announced earlier today.
The EX250 will not be allowed in F4 ENDURANCE.
John, no other machines will be allowed into the 500 Superstock class. This will be a CBR500 class only. If another manufactures steps up with a competitive 500cc machine we will consider adding it to the class. We already have several other classes that the machines you mentioned fit in.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Black
Now i'm confused..even more so than normal,is this applying to just the sprint race? or endurance,sprint,practice,rolling to tech?? I know there are atleast 4 ex 500 being prepped for the lightweight endurance. and 1 gs500..Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
Thanks Walter!Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
To get to my specific interest though, the RS125 Aprilia will only be able to run the 250 class in endurance/ sprint, and will not be eligible for the F4 class in any race, correct?
As someone who has struggled with the current "Superstock" 250 class (I use that term very loosely) I would love to see this actually happen. It seem like unless I'm willing to dump 1-3 grand into a 250 engine I can't be competitive. I'm not saying skill isn't a huge factor as well, but lets mitigate piles of cash racing into something more appealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
And no fair racing against Becka, she's like a jockey Jeremy! Fat Kid Class please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasey Lewis
In for a Fat Kid class.....