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Originally Posted By: Keith Hertell 11There were never less old men than kids in the mini series.
The problem now is there are even less kids than before.
Split the classes to Expert and Novice. Then some kids will get trophies.
This makes the most sense to me.
Derek,
Need to clarify...people who fight to make classes fair are not cowardly. This is just fair. What I dont like is rule book racers who lobby all off season so they can bring a gun to a knife fight.
Well, if the pre-press numbers are any indication, I don't see how stock ECU and Exhaust alone are going to keep the 300s from running away from the 250s. 30% more power out of the box, and a good chunk of that still, even compared to a well set up 250. Darn, I'd already started buying parts for a 250 next year (I think we'll have an F5 bike for sale soon) but have put that on hold already. We really do need some clarification on this, sooner than later. This is as close as the club has to a spec class. so it affects it much more than any other class would affected by a single brand/model of bike change.
I feel for Walter. Sorry big guy.
Originally Posted By: Derek ThomasJohn...that's why we call it endurance racing and another reason I don't think the 250's belong in the same class. Was your motor built to "keep-up" with 250's? Did crash occur because of pushing too hard? I've ridden both and a 125 framed cfr150 and had a blast on all three...went very fast on all three, but you don't have to do much to the 250 to make it competitive and endure BUT little kids cannot ride them their too big. Some parents don't want their kids on the same track with them...their too big! Older guys ride them because THEIR too big for smaller bikes, so this is an easy avenue for them(us).
You talk about all these "flashes" of brilliance, but as the record stands currently there have been 18 podium slots, and 4 of those occupied by 85's, two at the same track. By my account, there is only one in the top ten currently. I would argue it's not as a competitive format.
Corder, I'm certainly no coward but I do think they(250's) have an competitive advantage, especially in endurance racing and thats exactly why I think you see the results we have currently. And, like you, I think we have pushed a certain age group away from racing with us and that's very, very sad to see.
That bike and our attitude toward it's place in racing, in my opinion, has driven some away from racing and this club. In the same respect, it has brought some as well and I think that's fantastic.
I like the idea of the novice/expert split perhaps, and I'm sure there are some other ideas out there. I currently race with gentlemen that have boys learning to ride, but I can assure you mine won't ride a formula 4 bike of past with our current rules.
The 300 still looks like a great racing format, but where. Someone thread also had pics of a 350 KTM that looks outta this world!
Derek
I would be the last person to blame the bike for my teams poor performance. It has been things like a spark plug cap poping off or a exhaust gas probe breaking and falling out of the exhaust causing catastrophic failure of the motor. Other than that, My bike will run with any bike on the grid if ridden by an equally skilled rider.
Originally Posted By: Ryan WarrenIt has been things like a spark plug cap poping off or a exhaust gas probe breaking and falling out of the exhaust causing catastrophic failure of the motor.
I'm told these kinds of things don't happen to the Ninja. Maybe that's your issue.
Originally Posted By: chriscorder325Derek,
Need to clarify...people who fight to make classes fair are not cowardly. This is just fair. What I dont like is rule book racers who lobby all off season so they can bring a gun to a knife fight.
heeeeeeey [img]<>/frown.gif[/img]
Originally Posted By: Jesse DavisOriginally Posted By: chriscorder325Derek,
Need to clarify...people who fight to make classes fair are not cowardly. This is just fair. What I dont like is rule book racers who lobby all off season so they can bring a gun to a knife fight.
heeeeeeey [img]<>/frown.gif[/img]
You get a pass for your building skills. Anybody who cobbles stuff together is a hero in my book. As a matter of fact, if I were a rich dude, both your new Duc and the 4sTZ you built would be in my garage....and I would be making offers for Lurch right and left.
cobbles!?
Originally Posted By: Ryan WarrenOriginally Posted By: Derek ThomasJohn...that's why we call it endurance racing and another reason I don't think the 250's belong in the same class. Was your motor built to "keep-up" with 250's? Did crash occur because of pushing too hard? I've ridden both and a 125 framed cfr150 and had a blast on all three...went very fast on all three, but you don't have to do much to the 250 to make it competitive and endure BUT little kids cannot ride them their too big. Some parents don't want their kids on the same track with them...their too big! Older guys ride them because THEIR too big for smaller bikes, so this is an easy avenue for them(us).
You talk about all these "flashes" of brilliance, but as the record stands currently there have been 18 podium slots, and 4 of those occupied by 85's, two at the same track. By my account, there is only one in the top ten currently. I would argue it's not as a competitive format.
Corder, I'm certainly no coward but I do think they(250's) have an competitive advantage, especially in endurance racing and thats exactly why I think you see the results we have currently. And, like you, I think we have pushed a certain age group away from racing with us and that's very, very sad to see.
That bike and our attitude toward it's place in racing, in my opinion, has driven some away from racing and this club. In the same respect, it has brought some as well and I think that's fantastic.
I like the idea of the novice/expert split perhaps, and I'm sure there are some other ideas out there. I currently race with gentlemen that have boys learning to ride, but I can assure you mine won't ride a formula 4 bike of past with our current rules.
The 300 still looks like a great racing format, but where. Someone thread also had pics of a 350 KTM that looks outta this world!
Derek
I would be the last person to blame the bike for my teams poor performance. It has been things like a spark plug cap poping off or a exhaust gas probe breaking and falling out of the exhaust causing catastrophic failure of the motor. Other than that, My bike will run with any bike on the grid if ridden by an equally skilled rider.
Ryan,
Thanks...this either adds to my arguement OR proves your maintenance program, or possibly engine builder(or both) stinks!
I don't want the 250's to go away, as they provide some great sprint racing. They also provide a great platform to attract new endurance racers who want best bang for thier buck. I SIMPLY DISAGREE THAT THEY(250's)SHOULD RACE WITH REMAINING F4 BIKES IN "MINI" ENDURANCE, even if they are an equal platform, I think they make some potential newcomers and parents shy away from our clubs "mini" racing.
Originally Posted By: Derek Thomas
I don't want the 250's to go away, as they provide some great sprint racing. They also provide a great platform to attract new endurance racers who want best bang for thier buck. I SIMPLY DISAGREE THAT THEY(250's)SHOULD RACE WITH REMAINING F4 BIKES IN "MINI" ENDURANCE, even if they are an equal platform, I think they make some potential newcomers and parents shy away from our clubs "mini" racing.
The 250s are, without a doubt the best bang for the buck in racing right now, especially endurance. If they are not going to be in the mini endurance where would you put them? Do you have a potential solution to the problem you have presented?