Re: answer to novices on 1000's
Originally posted by CHRIS SMILEY:
I meant expert level power Eugene. Not expertly set up. You know newbies are not gonna get 100% of the performance of a completely stock motorcycle. Set up is a completely different story. It is highly advisable to get the best set up bike to learn on you can (hence my concession to AM's on big bikes). You don't want to learn how to ride on a bike that you have to compensate for it's set up or one that is dangerous.
Incidentally, I have seen Expert bikes "set up" to the point that they were as slow as the amatuers! Smiley
Re: answer to novices on 1000's
All,
I am a new member to CMRA this year..so my opinion is probably going to be worth beans...however...
I used my Street Gixxer 1k (lights taped off and horn still connected) the first race after my rider school at TWS back in Mar. Sad to say if i would have known the track a bit better i would have finished 5th place...but an overshoot and bad line on turn 3 on the last lap sent me off track...when i got back on i was in 10th place. Not bad for a FNG on a new track...You are assuming that all new riders have no clue on what they are doing...these days there are so many track days that people coming in have already had a taste of their machines on a track and there abilities.
Where is the data that supports this decision...The data should be for both expert and amateur...examples
1. # of Crashes over the past two years
2. How many were first year AM vs. 2+ year AM/EX
2. How many were on 600, 750 and +1000's
3. How many injuries were in each class
4. Severity of crash to CC engine.
5. Revenue lost to the CMRA by eliminating 1k
Data will be pointing to the direction that we should all be riding YSR's. At least set a grandfather clause...if you come in as a member in 2004..you will not be able to race a 1000..but for those of us who already have one..and have "already" raced them...and have not "CRASHED"...should be able to continue to race them if we got them. If a person did come in 2003 and did not race a 1000 at all...then they most likey do not have one to race.
This is a case where i would have to say...Size does not matter...let the data speak for the decision? Manage by FACT..not on what some other club is doing? Is the CMRA ready to loose alot of its members that already have 1k bikes and can not afford to by a smaller size bikes..then i guess the CMRA is ready to take some kind of entry impact. I have (along with others) spent alot of money this year getting my bikes ready to race...i am sure that myself and others who have 1k bikes would pretty much be at a major loss due to this decision.
Lets vote on this as a club...BOD is there representing the clubs members and voted in by the club members..
Present the "data" that supports this...then let us vote based on the true results of that data.
Respectfully,
Daniel Caldwell
AM#156
Re: answer to novices on 1000's
The ability of an amature rider to operate a motorcycle is not the issue. My 4 year old daughter knows how to operate a motorcycle. It's a question of experience and maturity. I have seen people that thought they where fast street riders humbled by the racing experience. The only data that I need is 12 plus years of experience. To me it is a question of saftey and saftey is my job!!!
Re: answer to novices on 1000's
I agree with Walter.
By the way, I always like to compare anyones times to Tyler McDonald's times on his 85cc powered GP125. It is most humbling.
While the BoD feels very strongly about the rule, and we feel it is in the best interest of the rider, we have decided to back off this requirement for 2004.
Be aware though, you will not be allowed to compete in any WERA events if you do wish to race with them at any of their tracks.
They have around 3000 licensed members and have had this rule for a numebr of years.
Re: answer to novices on 1000's
I agree with Bryan and Walter and I'll take this a little further, the CMRA did not allow novice/amateur riders to run 1000cc bikes (that also included 1000cc twins) for years, it's only since we became affiliated with CCS. Amateurs have only been running 1000cc bikes for the last 2 years; I don't think any amateurs rode one for the first year and a half of CCC affiliation.
There's a reason insurance companies charge more for 1000cc sport bikes.
There's a reason World Champion Road Racers started on smaller bikes.
Re: answer to novices on 1000's
I'd like to add my opinion at this juncture only for the few that DO have many years experience riding motorcycles.
I am 35, started riding at 11 and have had many bikes over the years. I may not have been racing them with a official club like WERA or CMRA. I have ridden with other licensed racers on the street over the years.
The issue is not "safety" and should not because another sanctioning body has this as a rule. I have been out there as an amateur first year rider at five events this year. I don't come away from this season as a whole thinking that all the guys I raced with shouldn't have been on 1000cc bikes for my safety. I don't race one but I do think that demonstrating proper riding technique and control is of utmost concern. I think that if a "first year" rider comes into the club say thru LSTD and they deem him competent in control and technique then so be it. No matter what bike he plans on riding.
I'll say this tho, most of the club members are gonna tell him that he would probably go faster if he started on a 600 or something but let him choose.
Okay, if we are gonna do this 1000 cc amateur thing then "show me" on paper that this last year a significant number of amateurs on 1000 cc bikes created a safety concern because I don't remember this being a cause for concern. If not, then I see no need for the rule. If the rule is law then grandfather it in for the 2005 season so that there are no members who get caught out for 2004.
Thanks for listening,
Darick
(Gixxer/CBR/Kawi 1k for 2004 campaign)
Re: answer to novices on 1000's
It's common sense, not just safety
Your first car wasn't a 500HP monster.(I Hope not) In many other countries they use a tiered licensing system. You can't just go to the dealer and plop down cash, you have to ride a small displacement bike first.
Yes, it would be very easy to build or buy a heavily tuned Duc, GP250, or 750 class machine that would be much harder to ride than a 1000.
The point is we had this rule before, and it worked fine. One of the largest racing organzations has this rule and it works fine. The other organiation does not have this rule, and it apparently works fine also.
I am not coming down hard on the safety factor, it's just common sense. I don't know why so many of you have bike envy and can't handle riding something smaller. The fastest riders in the world did not start on 1000cc machines.
I believe every single one of our track records are on 750 or smaller machines.
Regardless, as mentioned before we nixed the idea. We can't take away something that we gave to you guys for a couple of years.
Re: answer to novices on 1000's
Originally posted by darick pash:
I'd like to add my opinion at this juncture only for the few that DO have many years experience riding motorcycles.
I am 35, started riding at 11 and have had many bikes over the years. I may not have been racing them with a official club like WERA or CMRA. I have ridden with other licensed racers on the street over the years.
The issue is not "safety" and should not because another sanctioning body has this as a rule.
I'll say this tho, most of the club members are gonna tell him that he would probably go faster if he started on a 600 or something but let him choose.
Okay, if we are gonna do this 1000 cc amateur thing then "show me" on paper that this last year a significant number of amateurs on 1000 cc bikes created a safety concern because I don't remember this being a cause for concern.Thanks for listening,
Darick
(Gixxer/CBR/Kawi 1k for 2004 campaign)
Nice Points, especially the one about maybe "grandfathering" the rule to ensure that no one get's "left out".
About novices and 1000's. I have to say for me that every now and then my 1000 tries real hard to bite me on the #ss. I don't believe it is in the best interest of this or any organization having novice/amateur riders on liter bikes.
Several of the folks that have voiced their ideas (to allow amateurs/novices on 1000's) on this subject have crashed fairly hard on bikes that are of larger displacement. Jumping up to 142bhp + is not so bad on a track day. When you are in a pack of riders, and the heat of the race is on, common sense and throttle control go out the window.
One of the fastest riders (and my customer) in the MRA (Who holds several track records) just had his first season on a 1000. He had crashed a few times this year, and couldn't figure out what was going on with the motorcycle. Shane Stoyko and I basically had to tell the guy he didn't know how to ride properly. To me this was amazing. I mean the guy holds expert class records, but could not understand the concept of rolling on the throttle. Luckily, he had been racing for 10 years and quickly adapted (as well as kept himself out of trouble).
I do not believe it is safe (nor fair to the rider) that we do not impose good judgement within a sport that can easily kill or paralyze you especially when have newer riders.
You may think this is arrogant, but I will give an example of the fact that guys like myself have seen this way too many times.
1999 - Team Blockworks. We had one fast young guy on this team that was owned by Eric Kelcher. At the beginning of the season, I had a long talk with Tony and Eric and said the first time this young guy gets on this bike for the start of a race, he is going to crash and hurt himself. They listened. Unfortunately, the kid beat us down at TWS and we let him start. He was paralyzed that day.
There are several other situations I can cover when I see you (or anyone else for that matter) at the track. Some are funny and some are depressing.
My opinion is keep the Amateurs/Novices on 750cc (in-line 4) and below.
Re: answer to novices on 1000's
This year I raced a GSXR 600 for a reason. It has been a couple years since I have raced hard, so I wanted to get back into it on a small bike, to catch up on my braking and corner speed. I had planned to race it one more year, then get a bigger bike. Well I found a deal to good to pass up. So now I will be riding a GSXR 1000 next year. I am excited. But at the same time I hope to be as fast on the 1000. I've been on bikes with over 175 hp. But only enduraced for one race. Most tracks I will be faster, But at Oak Hill I'm not sure.
If you want to sound cool, say you ride a 1000. If you want to be cool, ride a 600 and smoke the 1000s.
The last race at Oak Hill I caught and passed Marcus Mcbain. But I feel I had the advantage riding a 600. Next year He will have the advantage because of time in the set on a 1000.
In 1996 I watched my teammate, Danny Dominguez riding a GSXR 750 race against a kid on a 125 at Hallett. Danny would pass him on the straights, then this punk would come flying past his going into the corners(sliding both tires). Danny did beat him to the line. But this kid was riding the wheels off that 125. I can and do brag about my teammate... and the day he beat Nicky Hayden. Maybe you have seen him on TV?
One more thing... as was said...compare your lap times to Tyler McDonald's, then compare the bikes.
Re: answer to novices on 1000's
Originally posted by Darnell Dorsey:
The last race at Oak Hill I caught and passed Marcus Mcbain. But I feel I had the advantage riding a 600. Next year He will have the advantage because of time in the set on a 1000.
