Please Read - Additional Rookie Experts for 2007!

Walter I have to disagree with you [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] The BOD anounced the new experts at the end of the season.Nancey even got a little frustrated after people keeped asking about the list. .6 or higher thats what we where told.[REPEATEDLY] Then almost a month later the list was changed. For some of us that didnt seat well. If I was told I would be expert from the start I would have felt alot different. What even made It more uncomfortable is the reasons. You cant honestly say lap times played a factor. Look at my lap times on my 600, and how about Rogers lap times on a XR100. Then it was so freinds can race together and have more fun [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] Then it was the novice class is gonna be more like a PROVNOV. I AGREE 100% that the current system needs to be changed. However I dont feel moving a hole bunch of true novice riders to expert is the anwers.In the current system if you when a F7 Championship you get moved to expert [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] Under the current system Jake Chapman should be expert. Whats wrong with this picture.I never expected to poduim racing. So to win a third over all on my motard was a real suprise [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] I stoped racing my 600 because I felt uncomfortable running in the back with guys half my age with nothing to loose. So it was well know I was waiting to race the over 40 novice in 07. It was my opinon that the over 40 would be a much safer class to run mid pack because we all have to go to work on Monday. When I was told I would not be moved to expert I made decisions on what bikes to purchase for the over 40 novice class. So when the BOD [CHANGED!!!!!] there decition It upset me. If you cant see why that would upset me I dont guess we are even in the same ball park [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] I race because its in my blood not because I expect to win. At least as a novice I stand some what of a chance to see the lead riders. For exzample at Oak hill when the top riders crashed out and I got a win [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] Nobody knows there was only 6 riders and I was loosing 2 to 4 seconds a lap. All they see is the first place plaque [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] and of course the story I tell about everybody crashing [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] I dont like being called a problem memeber if I disagree with a change that was made after the fact. The last time I check the club was owned by the memebers, So I thought I had a voice but I guess That was wrong to. I have a hard time getting in line especially when I dont know where the line is going!!!!! TIIIMMMMY

Walter I have to disagree with you [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] The BOD anounced the new experts at the end of the season.Nancey even got a little frustrated after people keeped asking about the list. .6 or higher thats what we where told.[REPEATEDLY] Then almost a month later the list was changed. For some of us that didnt seat well. If I was told I would be expert from the start I would have felt alot different. What even made It more uncomfortable is the reasons. You cant honestly say lap times played a factor. Look at my lap times on my 600, and how about Rogers lap times on a XR100. Then it was so freinds can race together and have more fun [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] Then it was the novice class is gonna be more like a PROVNOV. I AGREE 100% that the current system needs to be changed. However I dont feel moving a hole bunch of true novice riders to expert is the anwers.In the current system if you when a F7 Championship you get moved to expert [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] Under the current system Jake Chapman should be expert. Whats wrong with this picture.I never expected to poduim racing. So to win a third over all on my motard was a real suprise [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] I stoped racing my 600 because I felt uncomfortable running in the back with guys half my age with nothing to loose. So it was well know I was waiting to race the over 40 novice in 07. It was my opinon that the over 40 would be a much safer class to run mid pack because we all have to go to work on Monday. When I was told I would not be moved to expert I made decisions on what bikes to purchase for the over 40 novice class. So when the BOD [CHANGED!!!!!] there decition It upset me. If you cant see why that would upset me I dont guess we are even in the same ball park [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] I race because its in my blood not because I expect to win. At least as a novice I stand some what of a chance to see the lead riders. For exzample at Oak hill when the top riders crashed out and I got a win [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] Nobody knows there was only 6 riders and I was loosing 2 to 4 seconds a lap. All they see is the first place plaque [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] and of course the story I tell about everybody crashing [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] I dont like being called a problem memeber if I disagree with a change that was made after the fact. The last time I check the club was owned by the memebers, So I thought I had a voice but I guess That was wrong to. I have a hard time getting in line especially when I dont know where the line is going!!!!! TIIIMMMMY

I part I don't understand is the logic behind "We're trying to keep friends competing together..." is this an Elitist club? Do I only make friends with the guys in FRONT of ME??? Cause in reality I have several friends that were left behind in Novice that I race with and hang out in the pits!!! So bump them too!!! But WAIT!! THEY have friends too that are almost as fast as they are and they like to jockey for position TOO!!! SO maybe THEY should be expert TOO!!! and THOSE guys.... YOU GET THE PICTURE!!!
At no point in time should FRIENDSHIPS be a part of a professional decision. Kinda like football.. We can be best friends off the field, but when you catch the ball I'm gonna do my best to make sure you can't take a breath after I hit you.
I'll help you BUILD your bike on Saterday night so I can STUFF you in the last turn to make the pass.
What? Does the BOD not think we can make NEW friends if they bust us up? The whole reason I bothered to track down Buck Beasley when I started racing was because he had been around for a while... and I new he was consistently at the front of the pack where I wanted to go. So there.. Buck made a new friend. That's exactly what happens to the novices left behind...
I'm am just shocked and appalled at the fact the only reason I have heard the BOD make for this decision was "we wanted to keep friends together so we didn't lose lonely racers". what? You think your going to lose less racers by moving them from the front of the novice pack to the VERY tail end of the expert pack? Sure, everyone always feels better when they outrun someone else... but there will ALWAYS be the poor guy who drags up last... so why move more people just to change the guy who drags up last? How does this benefit the club??? I have heard NO answer to this?!? maybe this would help make me feel better... I don't think it's gonna help Timmuah... but I think he's got a right to be pissed... I would be too! That's ALOT of MONEY!

I part I don't understand is the logic behind "We're trying to keep friends competing together..." is this an Elitist club? Do I only make friends with the guys in FRONT of ME??? Cause in reality I have several friends that were left behind in Novice that I race with and hang out in the pits!!! So bump them too!!! But WAIT!! THEY have friends too that are almost as fast as they are and they like to jockey for position TOO!!! SO maybe THEY should be expert TOO!!! and THOSE guys.... YOU GET THE PICTURE!!!
At no point in time should FRIENDSHIPS be a part of a professional decision. Kinda like football.. We can be best friends off the field, but when you catch the ball I'm gonna do my best to make sure you can't take a breath after I hit you.
I'll help you BUILD your bike on Saterday night so I can STUFF you in the last turn to make the pass.
What? Does the BOD not think we can make NEW friends if they bust us up? The whole reason I bothered to track down Buck Beasley when I started racing was because he had been around for a while... and I new he was consistently at the front of the pack where I wanted to go. So there.. Buck made a new friend. That's exactly what happens to the novices left behind...
I'm am just shocked and appalled at the fact the only reason I have heard the BOD make for this decision was "we wanted to keep friends together so we didn't lose lonely racers". what? You think your going to lose less racers by moving them from the front of the novice pack to the VERY tail end of the expert pack? Sure, everyone always feels better when they outrun someone else... but there will ALWAYS be the poor guy who drags up last... so why move more people just to change the guy who drags up last? How does this benefit the club??? I have heard NO answer to this?!? maybe this would help make me feel better... I don't think it's gonna help Timmuah... but I think he's got a right to be pissed... I would be too! That's ALOT of MONEY!

To be fair to the BOD, regardless of how I feel about my own position, I don't think keeping friends together was their only stated reason, or even their primary one. It seems they are trying to thin the novice heard and beef up the expert grids. I can't take any issue with that concept, and it IS the sort of thing on their mandate. Just trying to be objective here.

To be fair to the BOD, regardless of how I feel about my own position, I don't think keeping friends together was their only stated reason, or even their primary one. It seems they are trying to thin the novice heard and beef up the expert grids. I can't take any issue with that concept, and it IS the sort of thing on their mandate. Just trying to be objective here.

Roger the BOD has a very tough job. They cant make everybody happy. I think the Idea behind the changes is good However I feel it wasnt thought threw.This is obvious from some of the people that where moved up. Take myself out of the picture and I still feel its not good. Roger do you Honestly think your an expert rider? You cant draw a line on a piece of paper and say ok those guys are experts. TIIIMMMMY

Roger the BOD has a very tough job. They cant make everybody happy. I think the Idea behind the changes is good However I feel it wasnt thought threw.This is obvious from some of the people that where moved up. Take myself out of the picture and I still feel its not good. Roger do you Honestly think your an expert rider? You cant draw a line on a piece of paper and say ok those guys are experts. TIIIMMMMY

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Chason:
The BOD anounced the new experts at the end of the season. Nancey even got a little frustrated after people keeped asking about the list. .6 or higher thats what we where told.

>>>Remember that the rulebook does not specify a specific index number, Tim. When .6 was discussed by the BoD and then presented on the BBS (which, by the way isn't the official method of communication because many of the members do not participate on it and we cannot mandate that they do), it was looked at again after weighing in more factors. The index number became more arbitrary and other factors became more relevant (see another posting of mine for a listing of some of those factors). Change happens. There's been a lot of discussion about the index number inside and outside of the BoD; it's always been a tool, a measuring stick, but other factors have always been considered for expert promotion. One thing is a constant, though, and that's riders not agreeing with a promotion, which is why there is an appeals process. It's been this way since I first opened a rulebook a million years ago and it's still around today.

[REPEATEDLY] Then almost a month later the list was changed.

>>>Where in the rulebook does it state that the BoD cannot reevaluate a previous decision, Tim? In business it happens all the time. I agree - and have agreed - that the list of promoted novices should have stated that it was a provisional list. Look up the word provisional and see what it means.

For some of us that didnt seat well. If I was told I would be expert from the start

>>>From the start of what? This is the part that is really ambiguous to me. Who said you would NOT be an expert? Not seeing your name on a provisional list is NOT the same thing as being told you are not promoted.

I would have felt alot different. What even made It more uncomfortable is the reasons. You cant honestly say lap times played a factor.

>>>Yes I can. I can honestly tell you that your lap times were a factor. One of many factors.

Look at my lap times on my 600, and how about Rogers lap times on a XR100. Then it was so freinds can race together and have more fun [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

>>>This is a benefit, not a reason. The rationale here is that if you enjoy racing because of your friends around you on the track in a novice race, you should still be around these people in an expert race.

Then it was the novice class is gonna be more like a PROVNOV. I AGREE 100% that the current system needs to be changed.

>>>The system is just that - a system. In fact, it's a system of sub-systems. It is not simple; it is complex. It is not black or white; it is grey. It does not have clearly defined boundaries; it has fuzzy edges. Creating a system that establishes a clearly defined promotion marker (e.g. a person wins a c'ship so he/she is automatically promoted) is easier than incorporating the lower fringes of those to be promoted (e.g. how does one categorically place rider A on the bump list when his/her results are very similar to rider B and rider B is not bumped?). It becomes very difficult right about here.

However I dont feel moving a hole bunch of true novice riders to expert is the anwers.

>>>What is true novice, Tim? Is there a hard line drawn in the sand? I’ll bet that the definition you have of a novice is different than the definition many other members have. If you look up the definition of the word "novice", I think you'd find it is arbitrary, too. One definition of the word states that a novice is "a person who is new to the circumstances, work, etc., in which he or she is placed; beginner." Are you new to roadracing? If so, how is this determined? Is it time in the organization or specific number of races, results not withstanding? Is it some kind of general knowledge? Is it some kind of specific knowledge? Is it a specific lap time on a specific bike? Is it a comprehensive understanding of the safety standards the organization has outlined? Is it when a novice has finished ahead of an expert in a race? While you’re defining novice, Tim, I’d like you to define a true expert, too. And I’d like you to create a process whereby an expert can be classified as a novice again using, of course, very specific numbers and markers that make sense to all. Really. You do this and we’ll incorporate it into the rulebook.

In the current system if you when a F7 Championship you get moved to expert [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] Under the current system Jake Chapman should be expert. Whats wrong with this picture.I never expected to poduim racing. So to win a third over all on my motard was a real suprise [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

>>>We’re you surprised at how competitive you were, or were you surprised how slow the rest of the pack was? Did you actually “win” third place overall, or can it be considered a non-accomplishment because you didn’t expect to do as well as you did by some de facto set of standards relative to the motard class only? And are you saying that you might be considered an expert in one class, but not in another because you don’t have experience on that particular bike and are not competitive? This is very interesting. With this in mind, do you feel that it is reasonable (let alone possible) to have riders within club roadracing broken out into categories, say, whereby one can theoretically win a 600cc championship as a novice yet make a case for remaining a novice because that person now wants to contest a 750cc class and has never ridden a 750 before? How about me? I haven’t won a 600cc race in about 15 years and haven’t been on the podium of a 600cc race since about ’99. I haven’t raced a new 600 in several years. Can I be considered a novice in a 600cc class because I can make a case for not having ridden the bike before? If not, why?

I stoped racing my 600 because I felt uncomfortable running in the back with guys half my age with nothing to loose. So it was well know I was waiting to race the over 40 novice in 07.

>>>Well known? To whom? I didn’t know you were planning on racing F40 novice. I never saw it published in a newsletter, I never received an email personally to me regarding the subject, and I didn’t see one of those big black and white “Public Notice” signs on your front lawn. Are you saying that the most, if not all of the CMRA knew your intentions to race F40 novice in 2007, even those that don’t pit next to you or read your postings on the BBS?

It was my opinon that the over 40 would be a much safer class to run mid pack because we all have to go to work on Monday. When I was told I would not be moved to expert I made decisions on what bikes to purchase for the over 40 novice class.

>>>Is racing F40 expert more dangerous in your opinion than racing “mid-pack” in F40 novice? If so, how? Ronnie Lunsford is one of the most conservative and safest racers I know. He’s also fast. He has to go to work on Monday (okay, Tuesday). Maybe what your real issue here is “I don’t have much of a chance to win F40 expert; F40 novice would be easier.”

So when the BOD [CHANGED!!!!!] there decition It upset me. If you cant see why that would upset me I dont guess we are even in the same ball park [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] I race because its in my blood not because I expect to win.

>>>Then being an expert shouldn’t bother you.

At least as a novice I stand some what of a chance to see the lead riders.

>>>I thought racing was in your blood…so what does seeing the lead riders have to do with anything?

For exzample at Oak hill when the top riders crashed out and I got a win [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] Nobody knows there was only 6 riders and I was loosing 2 to 4 seconds a lap. All they see is the first place plaque [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] and of course the story I tell about everybody crashing [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] I dont like being called a problem memeber if I disagree with a change that was made after the fact.

>>>After the fact…?

The last time I check the club was owned by the memebers,

>>>Check again, Tim. Neither the rulebook nor the by-laws state the club is owned by the members. The rulebook states “Today the spirit of its founders continues in the operation of the CMRA as a not-for-profit organization, run by and for the membership. The CMRA is managed by a Board of Directors, which is elected by popular vote of the CMRA members.” This means that a panel consisting of CMRA members is elected to govern the operations of the CMRA; it does not mean that 700 members sit around some big camp fire singing “Kum ba yah”, holding hands and talking racing. That’d be great, but, as a businessman, I don’t have to explain to you why this never works, do I?

So I thought I had a voice but I guess That was wrong to.

>>>C’mon, Tim! You have a voice, and you use it often. And you are being heard, too, but you are feeling pissed because every time you bring something up, it seems to go the opposite direction. If you are whining because you are not getting your way, then I am sorry that does not seem to working out for you. But if you are making suggestions as to how to improve things, take note that the BoD is hearing everything you say and you do have many valid concerns and suggestions that we considered and are still considering. Really.

I have a hard time getting in line especially when I dont know where the line is going!!!!!

>>>Brandon Boyd says “Isn't it strange that the man standing in front of me doesn't have a clue why he's waiting or what he's waiting for? Maybe it’s me but I'm sick of wasting energy, maybe if I look in my heart, I can find a back a door.”
TIIIMMMMY

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Chason:
The BOD anounced the new experts at the end of the season. Nancey even got a little frustrated after people keeped asking about the list. .6 or higher thats what we where told.

>>>Remember that the rulebook does not specify a specific index number, Tim. When .6 was discussed by the BoD and then presented on the BBS (which, by the way isn't the official method of communication because many of the members do not participate on it and we cannot mandate that they do), it was looked at again after weighing in more factors. The index number became more arbitrary and other factors became more relevant (see another posting of mine for a listing of some of those factors). Change happens. There's been a lot of discussion about the index number inside and outside of the BoD; it's always been a tool, a measuring stick, but other factors have always been considered for expert promotion. One thing is a constant, though, and that's riders not agreeing with a promotion, which is why there is an appeals process. It's been this way since I first opened a rulebook a million years ago and it's still around today.

[REPEATEDLY] Then almost a month later the list was changed.

>>>Where in the rulebook does it state that the BoD cannot reevaluate a previous decision, Tim? In business it happens all the time. I agree - and have agreed - that the list of promoted novices should have stated that it was a provisional list. Look up the word provisional and see what it means.

For some of us that didnt seat well. If I was told I would be expert from the start

>>>From the start of what? This is the part that is really ambiguous to me. Who said you would NOT be an expert? Not seeing your name on a provisional list is NOT the same thing as being told you are not promoted.

I would have felt alot different. What even made It more uncomfortable is the reasons. You cant honestly say lap times played a factor.

>>>Yes I can. I can honestly tell you that your lap times were a factor. One of many factors.

Look at my lap times on my 600, and how about Rogers lap times on a XR100. Then it was so freinds can race together and have more fun [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

>>>This is a benefit, not a reason. The rationale here is that if you enjoy racing because of your friends around you on the track in a novice race, you should still be around these people in an expert race.

Then it was the novice class is gonna be more like a PROVNOV. I AGREE 100% that the current system needs to be changed.

>>>The system is just that - a system. In fact, it's a system of sub-systems. It is not simple; it is complex. It is not black or white; it is grey. It does not have clearly defined boundaries; it has fuzzy edges. Creating a system that establishes a clearly defined promotion marker (e.g. a person wins a c'ship so he/she is automatically promoted) is easier than incorporating the lower fringes of those to be promoted (e.g. how does one categorically place rider A on the bump list when his/her results are very similar to rider B and rider B is not bumped?). It becomes very difficult right about here.

However I dont feel moving a hole bunch of true novice riders to expert is the anwers.

>>>What is true novice, Tim? Is there a hard line drawn in the sand? I’ll bet that the definition you have of a novice is different than the definition many other members have. If you look up the definition of the word "novice", I think you'd find it is arbitrary, too. One definition of the word states that a novice is "a person who is new to the circumstances, work, etc., in which he or she is placed; beginner." Are you new to roadracing? If so, how is this determined? Is it time in the organization or specific number of races, results not withstanding? Is it some kind of general knowledge? Is it some kind of specific knowledge? Is it a specific lap time on a specific bike? Is it a comprehensive understanding of the safety standards the organization has outlined? Is it when a novice has finished ahead of an expert in a race? While you’re defining novice, Tim, I’d like you to define a true expert, too. And I’d like you to create a process whereby an expert can be classified as a novice again using, of course, very specific numbers and markers that make sense to all. Really. You do this and we’ll incorporate it into the rulebook.

In the current system if you when a F7 Championship you get moved to expert [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] Under the current system Jake Chapman should be expert. Whats wrong with this picture.I never expected to poduim racing. So to win a third over all on my motard was a real suprise [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

>>>We’re you surprised at how competitive you were, or were you surprised how slow the rest of the pack was? Did you actually “win” third place overall, or can it be considered a non-accomplishment because you didn’t expect to do as well as you did by some de facto set of standards relative to the motard class only? And are you saying that you might be considered an expert in one class, but not in another because you don’t have experience on that particular bike and are not competitive? This is very interesting. With this in mind, do you feel that it is reasonable (let alone possible) to have riders within club roadracing broken out into categories, say, whereby one can theoretically win a 600cc championship as a novice yet make a case for remaining a novice because that person now wants to contest a 750cc class and has never ridden a 750 before? How about me? I haven’t won a 600cc race in about 15 years and haven’t been on the podium of a 600cc race since about ’99. I haven’t raced a new 600 in several years. Can I be considered a novice in a 600cc class because I can make a case for not having ridden the bike before? If not, why?

I stoped racing my 600 because I felt uncomfortable running in the back with guys half my age with nothing to loose. So it was well know I was waiting to race the over 40 novice in 07.

>>>Well known? To whom? I didn’t know you were planning on racing F40 novice. I never saw it published in a newsletter, I never received an email personally to me regarding the subject, and I didn’t see one of those big black and white “Public Notice” signs on your front lawn. Are you saying that the most, if not all of the CMRA knew your intentions to race F40 novice in 2007, even those that don’t pit next to you or read your postings on the BBS?

It was my opinon that the over 40 would be a much safer class to run mid pack because we all have to go to work on Monday. When I was told I would not be moved to expert I made decisions on what bikes to purchase for the over 40 novice class.

>>>Is racing F40 expert more dangerous in your opinion than racing “mid-pack” in F40 novice? If so, how? Ronnie Lunsford is one of the most conservative and safest racers I know. He’s also fast. He has to go to work on Monday (okay, Tuesday). Maybe what your real issue here is “I don’t have much of a chance to win F40 expert; F40 novice would be easier.”

So when the BOD [CHANGED!!!!!] there decition It upset me. If you cant see why that would upset me I dont guess we are even in the same ball park [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] I race because its in my blood not because I expect to win.

>>>Then being an expert shouldn’t bother you.

At least as a novice I stand some what of a chance to see the lead riders.

>>>I thought racing was in your blood…so what does seeing the lead riders have to do with anything?

For exzample at Oak hill when the top riders crashed out and I got a win [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] Nobody knows there was only 6 riders and I was loosing 2 to 4 seconds a lap. All they see is the first place plaque [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] and of course the story I tell about everybody crashing [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] I dont like being called a problem memeber if I disagree with a change that was made after the fact.

>>>After the fact…?

The last time I check the club was owned by the memebers,

>>>Check again, Tim. Neither the rulebook nor the by-laws state the club is owned by the members. The rulebook states “Today the spirit of its founders continues in the operation of the CMRA as a not-for-profit organization, run by and for the membership. The CMRA is managed by a Board of Directors, which is elected by popular vote of the CMRA members.” This means that a panel consisting of CMRA members is elected to govern the operations of the CMRA; it does not mean that 700 members sit around some big camp fire singing “Kum ba yah”, holding hands and talking racing. That’d be great, but, as a businessman, I don’t have to explain to you why this never works, do I?

So I thought I had a voice but I guess That was wrong to.

>>>C’mon, Tim! You have a voice, and you use it often. And you are being heard, too, but you are feeling pissed because every time you bring something up, it seems to go the opposite direction. If you are whining because you are not getting your way, then I am sorry that does not seem to working out for you. But if you are making suggestions as to how to improve things, take note that the BoD is hearing everything you say and you do have many valid concerns and suggestions that we considered and are still considering. Really.

I have a hard time getting in line especially when I dont know where the line is going!!!!!

>>>Brandon Boyd says “Isn't it strange that the man standing in front of me doesn't have a clue why he's waiting or what he's waiting for? Maybe it’s me but I'm sick of wasting energy, maybe if I look in my heart, I can find a back a door.”
TIIIMMMMY

Two things:
1. I dont know if you submitted a review letter or not but my guess is you will. My suggestion to you is to come up with valid (RIDING) reasons to stay a novice. Regardless of how justified your reasons are to you, I can definately tell you that the reasons you have cited WILL NOT sway the board. Its easy to look at Corey and others and say that they got to remain novice and then they dominated but these riders gave valid RIDING RELATED reasons for staying a novice. I doubt the BOD cares how much money you spent or how long your were planning to race in the gray hair class. Oh, and dont cite your laptimes. You sometimes had faster laps than me and I have three years of racing experience on you. I wish you the best of luck and I look foward to racing against you regardless of the color of your plates.

2. This club is NOT member owned in any way, shape, or form. I approach my relationship with the club as a business/client relationship. I pay for a service and the club provides it, that is all. I dont volunteer to help the club just like I dont volunteer to help Wal Mart restock its shelves. My wife loves the CMRA and wants to give her free time to the club. I think that is awesome but that is not the relationship I plan on having with the CMRA. My point is that other than races, I dont expect ANYTHING from this club. Do I have a voice? Yes. And I give it when I feel it is in my best interest. But, I am a customer who is provided a service, nothing more, nothing less.

Two things:
1. I dont know if you submitted a review letter or not but my guess is you will. My suggestion to you is to come up with valid (RIDING) reasons to stay a novice. Regardless of how justified your reasons are to you, I can definately tell you that the reasons you have cited WILL NOT sway the board. Its easy to look at Corey and others and say that they got to remain novice and then they dominated but these riders gave valid RIDING RELATED reasons for staying a novice. I doubt the BOD cares how much money you spent or how long your were planning to race in the gray hair class. Oh, and dont cite your laptimes. You sometimes had faster laps than me and I have three years of racing experience on you. I wish you the best of luck and I look foward to racing against you regardless of the color of your plates.

2. This club is NOT member owned in any way, shape, or form. I approach my relationship with the club as a business/client relationship. I pay for a service and the club provides it, that is all. I dont volunteer to help the club just like I dont volunteer to help Wal Mart restock its shelves. My wife loves the CMRA and wants to give her free time to the club. I think that is awesome but that is not the relationship I plan on having with the CMRA. My point is that other than races, I dont expect ANYTHING from this club. Do I have a voice? Yes. And I give it when I feel it is in my best interest. But, I am a customer who is provided a service, nothing more, nothing less.

Linz how come every time some body disagrees with the BOD there called whinners? Linz I wasnt present when the BOD evaluated the new experts. Maybe you guys see something I dont. Im even willing to keep looking and I have but I still cant see how myself and other riders where moved to expert. The only why I can come close to seeing the reason is to fill up the grid. Lord knows I could be wrong. So at this point I think I better stop or I will be on the BLACKLIST for quit some time. I just wanna race and have a good time. I voted for the BOD and I truly hope in the future memebers who have a disagreement with the BOD will recieve the same respect they give the BOD. Remember the members voted for you and other BOD to be our voice not to talk down to us and call us WHINNERS. Thanks for your time Tim Chason

Linz how come every time some body disagrees with the BOD there called whinners? Linz I wasnt present when the BOD evaluated the new experts. Maybe you guys see something I dont. Im even willing to keep looking and I have but I still cant see how myself and other riders where moved to expert. The only why I can come close to seeing the reason is to fill up the grid. Lord knows I could be wrong. So at this point I think I better stop or I will be on the BLACKLIST for quit some time. I just wanna race and have a good time. I voted for the BOD and I truly hope in the future memebers who have a disagreement with the BOD will recieve the same respect they give the BOD. Remember the members voted for you and other BOD to be our voice not to talk down to us and call us WHINNERS. Thanks for your time Tim Chason

Linz The more I think about your post the more uneasy I get. If you go back to when all this started you would see how the BOD is in conflict with its own post. Straight out of the rule book. The BOD will set the riders index at the end of the season. :Originally posted by Nancey:,[Riders with a .600 and above are automatically moved up to Expert for 2007. Also, any Novice who won a 2006 Class Championship is automatically moved up to Expert] I couldnt find anywhere the rule book says after the Index has been posted and the new experts where anounced the index would change. If I would have been on the original list I would have felt different. WHY? because all year long we are told rules are rules. If the BOD dosent feel that changing the Index a month after it was posted is a big thing. Then what was the big deal with letting Kelsey race the last race as expert and not give up his novice championship [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] OH thats right rules are rules. At this point It no longer matters. Only negative will come from this and its going no where. Plus I dont like being talked down to and made an exzample of. I was told when I first joined the CMRA dont Question the BOD because you will be hung out to dry. As long as I gave my money and my time I was a great guy. Now I dont agree with something and all of a sudden Im the devil a bad member trying to start problems. Now I allredy know what your thinking we never said that. You didnt have to just read your post. From my side its says how dare you Question us, This is your first year you dont know what your talking about, So shut up and do what we say. No problem I take back my request I will race as a expert in 2007. One more thing Linz It was well know I was waiting to race F40! By all my racing buddies/friends/pit pals. According to the BOD thats what racing is all about right?

Linz The more I think about your post the more uneasy I get. If you go back to when all this started you would see how the BOD is in conflict with its own post. Straight out of the rule book. The BOD will set the riders index at the end of the season. :Originally posted by Nancey:,[Riders with a .600 and above are automatically moved up to Expert for 2007. Also, any Novice who won a 2006 Class Championship is automatically moved up to Expert] I couldnt find anywhere the rule book says after the Index has been posted and the new experts where anounced the index would change. If I would have been on the original list I would have felt different. WHY? because all year long we are told rules are rules. If the BOD dosent feel that changing the Index a month after it was posted is a big thing. Then what was the big deal with letting Kelsey race the last race as expert and not give up his novice championship [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] OH thats right rules are rules. At this point It no longer matters. Only negative will come from this and its going no where. Plus I dont like being talked down to and made an exzample of. I was told when I first joined the CMRA dont Question the BOD because you will be hung out to dry. As long as I gave my money and my time I was a great guy. Now I dont agree with something and all of a sudden Im the devil a bad member trying to start problems. Now I allredy know what your thinking we never said that. You didnt have to just read your post. From my side its says how dare you Question us, This is your first year you dont know what your talking about, So shut up and do what we say. No problem I take back my request I will race as a expert in 2007. One more thing Linz It was well know I was waiting to race F40! By all my racing buddies/friends/pit pals. According to the BOD thats what racing is all about right?

I will not line item your response, Tim. I stand by my words. Please read them again and remember that change occurs because there is a gap between what is and what should be.

And I am sorry that someone put the idea in your head when you first joined the CMRA that questioning the BoD would be poison. I do not think that to be a wholly fair statement for someone to make. I encourage you or anyone else to question the BoD, the rulebook, your local government and your national government because it keeps these groups on thier respective toes.

I will not line item your response, Tim. I stand by my words. Please read them again and remember that change occurs because there is a gap between what is and what should be.

And I am sorry that someone put the idea in your head when you first joined the CMRA that questioning the BoD would be poison. I do not think that to be a wholly fair statement for someone to make. I encourage you or anyone else to question the BoD, the rulebook, your local government and your national government because it keeps these groups on thier respective toes.

Linz for me this matter is closed. The difference from myself and other memebers, I dont try to play both sides of the fence. The down side is sometimes this Isolates me. In my eyes the BOD has made a bad decition. If the BOD cant step back and try to look at it from my view and other members. THAT IS THE HOLE PROBLEM!!!! If the BOD cant look at the club from every possible view. From JR motard to a possible womens only race. There will allways be conflict in the club and rummors of a close minded BOD. Linz my words have not been directed at you as my friend rather the position you hold.Thank you and other BOD memebers for there time. Tim Chason

Linz for me this matter is closed. The difference from myself and other memebers, I dont try to play both sides of the fence. The down side is sometimes this Isolates me. In my eyes the BOD has made a bad decition. If the BOD cant step back and try to look at it from my view and other members. THAT IS THE HOLE PROBLEM!!!! If the BOD cant look at the club from every possible view. From JR motard to a possible womens only race. There will allways be conflict in the club and rummors of a close minded BOD. Linz my words have not been directed at you as my friend rather the position you hold.Thank you and other BOD memebers for there time. Tim Chason

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Chason:
Linz for me this matter is closed. The difference from myself and other memebers, I dont try to play both sides of the fence. The down side is sometimes this Isolates me. In my eyes the BOD has made a bad decition. If the BOD cant step back and try to look at it from my view and other members. THAT IS THE HOLE PROBLEM!!!! If the BOD cant look at the club from every possible view. From JR motard to a possible womens only race. There will allways be conflict in the club and rummors of a close minded BOD. Linz my words have not been directed at you as my friend rather the position you hold.Thank you and other BOD memebers for there time. Tim Chason

Tim, just because the board doesn't agree with you doesn't make them closed-minded.
There are a lot of us who think the board did the right thing in going back and moving up more people. Personally, I think more should have been.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Chason:
Linz for me this matter is closed. The difference from myself and other memebers, I dont try to play both sides of the fence. The down side is sometimes this Isolates me. In my eyes the BOD has made a bad decition. If the BOD cant step back and try to look at it from my view and other members. THAT IS THE HOLE PROBLEM!!!! If the BOD cant look at the club from every possible view. From JR motard to a possible womens only race. There will allways be conflict in the club and rummors of a close minded BOD. Linz my words have not been directed at you as my friend rather the position you hold.Thank you and other BOD memebers for there time. Tim Chason

Tim, just because the board doesn't agree with you doesn't make them closed-minded.
There are a lot of us who think the board did the right thing in going back and moving up more people. Personally, I think more should have been.

Rich 60% of my disagreement was not with my self rather riders like Roger that where moved to expert because he placed well on a XR100.If the BOD cant step back and see this is a problem. Then yes there being very close minded. In the past year I have been lucky enough to make some really cool friends in our club. Some of the BOD is in this group. Most people look at a motorcycle and say cool bike. I look at a motorcycle and see art, I see the room for Improvment,I look for flaws most of all I look to see what can be done to make it better. Some people that run our club say if it aint broke dont fixit. I have a problem with this. Rich if you cant understand why. Well you probably just see a cool bike. TIIIMMMMY [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] This is my last post here, I have to start trainning to be an EXPERT [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

Rich 60% of my disagreement was not with my self rather riders like Roger that where moved to expert because he placed well on a XR100.If the BOD cant step back and see this is a problem. Then yes there being very close minded. In the past year I have been lucky enough to make some really cool friends in our club. Some of the BOD is in this group. Most people look at a motorcycle and say cool bike. I look at a motorcycle and see art, I see the room for Improvment,I look for flaws most of all I look to see what can be done to make it better. Some people that run our club say if it aint broke dont fixit. I have a problem with this. Rich if you cant understand why. Well you probably just see a cool bike. TIIIMMMMY [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] This is my last post here, I have to start trainning to be an EXPERT [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

Please let it be so... Your post count on this thread alone is 19... :p

Just so you know punkin', lot's of members in the club say leave it alone no matter how much they CRY... [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]


For the record... Roger placed well on an SV not just on a mini bike... He placed 2nd at MSR on his SV and top 6 finishes for the year in two classes, with out running every event.

Someone should lock this thread...

The facts have been stated and appeals should be done to the BOD in writing.

I'm going to have to be more selective with the topics I open in the future...

Please let it be so... Your post count on this thread alone is 19... :p

Just so you know punkin', lot's of members in the club say leave it alone no matter how much they CRY... [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]


For the record... Roger placed well on an SV not just on a mini bike... He placed 2nd at MSR on his SV and top 6 finishes for the year in two classes, with out running every event.

Someone should lock this thread...

The facts have been stated and appeals should be done to the BOD in writing.

I'm going to have to be more selective with the topics I open in the future...

True Jason, but I think only 4 guys finished that race, and one of the two I was ahead of was a Motard. So, that placing didn't mean much in real terms, or, given the low rider count, would it have contributed to the index either. Heck, if three more guys had been absent, I could swept the podium all by myself [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] OK, NOW lock it. I don't want to here Tim or myself anymore either [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

True Jason, but I think only 4 guys finished that race, and one of the two I was ahead of was a Motard. So, that placing didn't mean much in real terms, or, given the low rider count, would it have contributed to the index either. Heck, if three more guys had been absent, I could swept the podium all by myself [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] OK, NOW lock it. I don't want to here Tim or myself anymore either [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Does this bump affect Expert purses?

Does this bump affect Expert purses?

I know what y'all reminded me of..

http://www.knitemare.org/grabber/jedisquirrel.jpg

I know what y'all reminded me of..

http://www.knitemare.org/grabber/jedisquirrel.jpg

Now THAT's funny!

Now THAT's funny!

That's more respectable looking than I was picturing.

That's more respectable looking than I was picturing.

Thanks a LOT, Yuliya. Now I have to wipe off all the beer I just spewed all over my monitor!! You've just one-upped Mr. Hertell on the funny photo "this thread is beyond Twilight Zone" front.

Thanks a LOT, Yuliya. Now I have to wipe off all the beer I just spewed all over my monitor!! You've just one-upped Mr. Hertell on the funny photo "this thread is beyond Twilight Zone" front.

And if Mr. Tim would read his own post...riders with a .600 or class championship are AUTOMATICALLY bumped to expert. The rest is up for BOD approval/recommendations.

As for me...I requested (& got) my Expert plates back. Thank you BOD.

And if Mr. Tim would read his own post...riders with a .600 or class championship are AUTOMATICALLY bumped to expert. The rest is up for BOD approval/recommendations.

As for me...I requested (& got) my Expert plates back. Thank you BOD.