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Emmett,
That is what i figured. I was posting questions we all know the answers to. Is it logical to throw away $25,000 a year with no benifits? Seems to me that money would be well spent on promotion, purses, and equipment.
Cost of staying with CCS-$25k annually
Cost of leaving CCS- free
reducing financial burdens from the club...priceless:)
Emmett,
That is what i figured. I was posting questions we all know the answers to. Is it logical to throw away $25,000 a year with no benifits? Seems to me that money would be well spent on promotion, purses, and equipment.
Cost of staying with CCS-$25k annually
Cost of leaving CCS- free
reducing financial burdens from the club...priceless:)
From real first hand experience, here is what I can tell you about "independents"
OMMRA - Nice Club, had very limited contingency, and a very hard time growing.
WMMRA - Same story. When I was there WMMRA and OMMRA spent a ton of time pissin' in everybody's ear how great they were...
MRA - Bigger than OMMRA and WMMRA, but again does anyone ever hear about the riders from there?
I think everyone thinks "independent" is great, but again, if you think life is good with no national help, then the question I have is, "Are you willing to put your own money up if contingency is lost or not grown?"
CCS DID provide CMRA with exposure in RRW. There were several small articles that featured endurance winners, etc. It was hard to find, but there nonetheless. CCS provided more exposure than any CMRA originated press release.
Let's be real. The majority of riders that make the races weekend/weekout don't participate on this message board heavily, but again, that does not mean you should not take them into consideration. How many of the BBS regulars actually get out there and line it up every race? Very few. Take a look in the mirror, if you are not out there for at least 1/2 or more of the races, you as an individual don't properly represent the 40%-60% of the actual club members that goes out and lays down money for 3 to 4 entries per weekend for a large portion of the season. The numbers may only show 40%-60%, but I have to believe that would show a larger financial impact. These are the racers that need to have a voice in this.
Marcus
Just a note: The following riders represent 30 entries from last weekends races. That is about 5% of the entries. You rarely see these guys on the board, but these are the kind of racers that "make it happen" when registation is gathering up money. You shut guys out like this becuase you don't have enough "exposure" for the club, you better start pumping up those YSR entrie real freakin' fast.
Chris Rankin 5
Mark Delano 6
Phillip Lawliss 4
John Haner 3
John Orchard 4
Zachry Lee 3
Kevin Mays 5
From real first hand experience, here is what I can tell you about "independents"
OMMRA - Nice Club, had very limited contingency, and a very hard time growing.
WMMRA - Same story. When I was there WMMRA and OMMRA spent a ton of time pissin' in everybody's ear how great they were...
MRA - Bigger than OMMRA and WMMRA, but again does anyone ever hear about the riders from there?
I think everyone thinks "independent" is great, but again, if you think life is good with no national help, then the question I have is, "Are you willing to put your own money up if contingency is lost or not grown?"
CCS DID provide CMRA with exposure in RRW. There were several small articles that featured endurance winners, etc. It was hard to find, but there nonetheless. CCS provided more exposure than any CMRA originated press release.
Let's be real. The majority of riders that make the races weekend/weekout don't participate on this message board heavily, but again, that does not mean you should not take them into consideration. How many of the BBS regulars actually get out there and line it up every race? Very few. Take a look in the mirror, if you are not out there for at least 1/2 or more of the races, you as an individual don't properly represent the 40%-60% of the actual club members that goes out and lays down money for 3 to 4 entries per weekend for a large portion of the season. The numbers may only show 40%-60%, but I have to believe that would show a larger financial impact. These are the racers that need to have a voice in this.
Marcus
Just a note: The following riders represent 30 entries from last weekends races. That is about 5% of the entries. You rarely see these guys on the board, but these are the kind of racers that "make it happen" when registation is gathering up money. You shut guys out like this becuase you don't have enough "exposure" for the club, you better start pumping up those YSR entrie real freakin' fast.
Chris Rankin 5
Mark Delano 6
Phillip Lawliss 4
John Haner 3
John Orchard 4
Zachry Lee 3
Kevin Mays 5
My original question still stands.
Are ALL the national F-USA events Co-promoted?
David
My original question still stands.
Are ALL the national F-USA events Co-promoted?
David
All co-promoted?
[img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]
Marcus, what about WSMC and AFM? I realise WSMC is kind of lame because they are just one track but still they are large and have much coin going
into their top classes.
I also agree that smaller clubs don't get much exposer but I would argue that most clubs get
small exposer.
MRA? Nicky Wimbaur. Up and coming, several articles have been writen about him, and a certain AMA 250 champ/Mystery camp running
individual has ranted about him in national
media.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not pro - anything at this time. I just want the facts. Do we get
anything from an aliance with either organazation
that we can't get/do ourselves?
The CMRA charter is alot like the constitution
I believe. It doesn't say one way or the other
wether the club should be aligned with a national organazation. It does say the CMRA should promote motorcycle roadracing in the south central region of the United States.
We are and can do that either way.
Your riders list left out people like
Chris Newhouse. He usually enters 5 classes
and the big and small bike endurances. He regularly brings 2 - 4 bikes with him to the track. He's not fast so does that mean he doesn't count? Some people only have one sprint
bike that is competitive for 1 or 2 classes.
They could ride up several for more track time
but their slower speeds would/could put them
in the dangerous position of being backmarkers/in the way. Since they choose to
not be a rolling chicane for the fast guys does
that mean they don't count?
Some people can only afford to race 50's/motards, does that mean they don't count?
Some poeple only can afford in time or money to race a few times a year but are very fast,
(Eric Kancier,Zach Lee) does that mean they don't count? All these people paid the same
liscence fee for a year that the fast guys did.
That is what this question in about. The
entry fee's pay for the race weekend basicly,
the liscence fee's pay for the national
affiliation.
At your 200 member estimate over 10% of the club has voted on the pole and the numbers don't
support a outcry of membership dismay if we were
independant. I know it's not the entire memebership. I know hardly anyone has particapated in this discussion. It doesn't mean
it is illrelavant or that they are for or
against it. It does mean they would rather
see some information before they open their mouths.
Marcus, you are very intellegent but I am still
waiting for good solid arguements that we NEED
to be affiliated. Not that is is politicaly correct(ie: united Nations) but that it is the
right thing to do for the club as a whole.
My arguement is if neither organazation wants to
take the time or effort to propperly represent us
or make it fincialy desirable to be affiliated with them then why should we be?
All co-promoted?
[img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]
Marcus, what about WSMC and AFM? I realise WSMC is kind of lame because they are just one track but still they are large and have much coin going
into their top classes.
I also agree that smaller clubs don't get much exposer but I would argue that most clubs get
small exposer.
MRA? Nicky Wimbaur. Up and coming, several articles have been writen about him, and a certain AMA 250 champ/Mystery camp running
individual has ranted about him in national
media.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not pro - anything at this time. I just want the facts. Do we get
anything from an aliance with either organazation
that we can't get/do ourselves?
The CMRA charter is alot like the constitution
I believe. It doesn't say one way or the other
wether the club should be aligned with a national organazation. It does say the CMRA should promote motorcycle roadracing in the south central region of the United States.
We are and can do that either way.
Your riders list left out people like
Chris Newhouse. He usually enters 5 classes
and the big and small bike endurances. He regularly brings 2 - 4 bikes with him to the track. He's not fast so does that mean he doesn't count? Some people only have one sprint
bike that is competitive for 1 or 2 classes.
They could ride up several for more track time
but their slower speeds would/could put them
in the dangerous position of being backmarkers/in the way. Since they choose to
not be a rolling chicane for the fast guys does
that mean they don't count?
Some people can only afford to race 50's/motards, does that mean they don't count?
Some poeple only can afford in time or money to race a few times a year but are very fast,
(Eric Kancier,Zach Lee) does that mean they don't count? All these people paid the same
liscence fee for a year that the fast guys did.
That is what this question in about. The
entry fee's pay for the race weekend basicly,
the liscence fee's pay for the national
affiliation.
At your 200 member estimate over 10% of the club has voted on the pole and the numbers don't
support a outcry of membership dismay if we were
independant. I know it's not the entire memebership. I know hardly anyone has particapated in this discussion. It doesn't mean
it is illrelavant or that they are for or
against it. It does mean they would rather
see some information before they open their mouths.
Marcus, you are very intellegent but I am still
waiting for good solid arguements that we NEED
to be affiliated. Not that is is politicaly correct(ie: united Nations) but that it is the
right thing to do for the club as a whole.
My arguement is if neither organazation wants to
take the time or effort to propperly represent us
or make it fincialy desirable to be affiliated with them then why should we be?
Here is the argument Emmett. This is as basic as it gets (without trying to offend anyone).
Most racers on the BBS are blowhards. They talk a lot of smack, but can't be found at more than 3 or 4 events a year. THAT DOESN'T PAY THE CMRA BILL'S on any consistent basis.
By the way, I wouldn't classify Chris Newhouse in anything but "serious racer" class. Lap times be damned, Chris is out to race. That is why we always see him at the WERA GNF.
There has been, and always will be a core of 40-50 riders that simply race. They don't get on the BBS and blow smoke, they freakin' race. These are the same racers that push 200 of our entries through every weekend. They are very rarely if ever represented well. They would rather race than talk politics. They would rather race against great competition than save $5.00 an entry. I can't express to you what it means when we have something like a WERA national down here and the Vesrah guys or top national experts/amatuers come down here and you get race against them. There are only about 20% of the riders that probably do care, but I also realize that those 20% or the riders can and do represent 50% of the paying entries. They are rarely represented well for the aforementioned reasons.
About the AFM - I have raced at AFM races (in the 80's) when they line up 700+ entries in a single day. IT WAS A ZOO. They had to institute a "3 crashes and your out for the year" rule. Former AMA Formula Extreme Champ Mark Miller almost lost the opportunity for the AFM #1 plate because of this rule in 89 (I think). This is not a knock on being independent, but again, something to think about.
I realize a great many riders will not actually go to Daytona or the GNF. The constant "I just race for fun" or "Those guys have the track dialed in and I will never win" will be heard, but again, "Why did nearly 40 racers go to the GNF when WERA is so lightly attended down here?"
I think it would be intresting to do some demographic research and find out how many race entries each individual rider represents. This is important. We don't need people representing 20% of the entries having 80% of the influence. This will eventually drive the quality of the club down.
On a final note, I think the CMRA needs to understand the "commodity" it owns. The "commodity" it owns are the total annual entries, licenses, and events it holds. This is a negotiating tool. When has the CMRA aggressively "shopped" in the market to not only get the best deal, but challenged the national body with creative business ideas? This is a very elusive concept for most, but how regular business is done every day.
I am not saying WERA, CCS, or independent. I am saying, "Explore the opportunities and be true to who is paying the bills."
Marcus
Here is the argument Emmett. This is as basic as it gets (without trying to offend anyone).
Most racers on the BBS are blowhards. They talk a lot of smack, but can't be found at more than 3 or 4 events a year. THAT DOESN'T PAY THE CMRA BILL'S on any consistent basis.
By the way, I wouldn't classify Chris Newhouse in anything but "serious racer" class. Lap times be damned, Chris is out to race. That is why we always see him at the WERA GNF.
There has been, and always will be a core of 40-50 riders that simply race. They don't get on the BBS and blow smoke, they freakin' race. These are the same racers that push 200 of our entries through every weekend. They are very rarely if ever represented well. They would rather race than talk politics. They would rather race against great competition than save $5.00 an entry. I can't express to you what it means when we have something like a WERA national down here and the Vesrah guys or top national experts/amatuers come down here and you get race against them. There are only about 20% of the riders that probably do care, but I also realize that those 20% or the riders can and do represent 50% of the paying entries. They are rarely represented well for the aforementioned reasons.
About the AFM - I have raced at AFM races (in the 80's) when they line up 700+ entries in a single day. IT WAS A ZOO. They had to institute a "3 crashes and your out for the year" rule. Former AMA Formula Extreme Champ Mark Miller almost lost the opportunity for the AFM #1 plate because of this rule in 89 (I think). This is not a knock on being independent, but again, something to think about.
I realize a great many riders will not actually go to Daytona or the GNF. The constant "I just race for fun" or "Those guys have the track dialed in and I will never win" will be heard, but again, "Why did nearly 40 racers go to the GNF when WERA is so lightly attended down here?"
I think it would be intresting to do some demographic research and find out how many race entries each individual rider represents. This is important. We don't need people representing 20% of the entries having 80% of the influence. This will eventually drive the quality of the club down.
On a final note, I think the CMRA needs to understand the "commodity" it owns. The "commodity" it owns are the total annual entries, licenses, and events it holds. This is a negotiating tool. When has the CMRA aggressively "shopped" in the market to not only get the best deal, but challenged the national body with creative business ideas? This is a very elusive concept for most, but how regular business is done every day.
I am not saying WERA, CCS, or independent. I am saying, "Explore the opportunities and be true to who is paying the bills."
Marcus