Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
"I don't think much about the mini's, they are fun" ok, maybe you should also think of them. yeah we only have 2 or 3 sprints a weekend that limits your "income for the club". Look at how many teams show up for the 6-hour endurance at oak hill. we all pay license and endurance fees too. some of us race this class simply cause we can't afford to run big bikes. what you spend on one set of tires is my fuel budget for the whole year. it is also a class for up and coming riders, Tyler Macdonald, Ryan Andrews, and some kid named Will who i don't even know his last name. that is future income if you want to keep referring to business sense. and I will make every race this year and contribute to the club how i can even though i dont have as many entries as some others do so i am not an individual just talking smack on this board. You have never answered the original question in plain english. what are the pros and cons of being with either establishment or being independent? just like in debate in school. lets see some research and facts from all sides instead of big words and personal egos and putting other clubs down. and talk about this at a race weekend so everyone, not just the ones talking smack on this board, can be a part of this. not trying to make enemies, just want the plain and simple facts of the whole thing.
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
"I don't think much about the mini's, they are fun" ok, maybe you should also think of them. yeah we only have 2 or 3 sprints a weekend that limits your "income for the club". Look at how many teams show up for the 6-hour endurance at oak hill. we all pay license and endurance fees too. some of us race this class simply cause we can't afford to run big bikes. what you spend on one set of tires is my fuel budget for the whole year. it is also a class for up and coming riders, Tyler Macdonald, Ryan Andrews, and some kid named Will who i don't even know his last name. that is future income if you want to keep referring to business sense. and I will make every race this year and contribute to the club how i can even though i dont have as many entries as some others do so i am not an individual just talking smack on this board. You have never answered the original question in plain english. what are the pros and cons of being with either establishment or being independent? just like in debate in school. lets see some research and facts from all sides instead of big words and personal egos and putting other clubs down. and talk about this at a race weekend so everyone, not just the ones talking smack on this board, can be a part of this. not trying to make enemies, just want the plain and simple facts of the whole thing.
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Marcus, I completely disagree with your argument about 5% of the riders 'making it happen' for the club....->
"Just a note: The following riders represent 30 entries from last weekends races. That is about 5% of the entries. You rarely see these guys on the board, but these are the kind of racers that "make it happen" when registation is gathering up money. You shut guys out like this becuase you don't have enough "exposure" for the club, you better start pumping up those YSR entrie real freakin' fast.
Chris Rankin 5
Mark Delano 6
Phillip Lawliss 4
John Haner 3
John Orchard 4
Zachry Lee 3
Kevin Mays 5"
Those riders are also the ones taking home the money. Not just contingency, but the cash purses the CMRA puts up, along with our sponsors. So while they may pay some entry fees, they are also taking some of it back home with them.
Also consider that the third entry only costs $30.
One rider entering 6 races = $230 (with no discounts for class championship or take home from cash purse)
Six riders entering 6 races = $390
The riders who "make it happen" for the CMRA are the other 95%.
This club is about the entire 100%. We provide classes for everyone, and try and give the average weekend warrior some classes and incentive to come and race.
We provide cash purses, and acquire sponsors so that the best of the best can come and play also.
It would be easy to try and turn our club into a pure profit machine. Eliminate all classes with less than 8 entries per event. Make a larger spectacle out of the premier races, possible even extend them by a couple of laps. Remove all YSR classes and the new JR Motard.
But that is absolutely NOT what the CMRA is about. I will go down fighting for the weekend warriors. Those of us not born with a silver spoon in our mouth who have to balance safety and costs. (Can I make that tire last one more race or do I have to buy a new set now?)
Even some of our CMRA 'superstars' who scrounge up money by selling used parts to get them to the next money paying venue are what this club is about.
It's about coming out and having fun.
Events like the Motard, Jr Motard, Vintage, and mini endurance are what the CMRA is about.
All of this balanced around the big events like the largest and most succesful endurance series in the country, year after year is what the CMRA is about.
Damn I ramble...see yall
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Marcus, I completely disagree with your argument about 5% of the riders 'making it happen' for the club....->
"Just a note: The following riders represent 30 entries from last weekends races. That is about 5% of the entries. You rarely see these guys on the board, but these are the kind of racers that "make it happen" when registation is gathering up money. You shut guys out like this becuase you don't have enough "exposure" for the club, you better start pumping up those YSR entrie real freakin' fast.
Chris Rankin 5
Mark Delano 6
Phillip Lawliss 4
John Haner 3
John Orchard 4
Zachry Lee 3
Kevin Mays 5"
Those riders are also the ones taking home the money. Not just contingency, but the cash purses the CMRA puts up, along with our sponsors. So while they may pay some entry fees, they are also taking some of it back home with them.
Also consider that the third entry only costs $30.
One rider entering 6 races = $230 (with no discounts for class championship or take home from cash purse)
Six riders entering 6 races = $390
The riders who "make it happen" for the CMRA are the other 95%.
This club is about the entire 100%. We provide classes for everyone, and try and give the average weekend warrior some classes and incentive to come and race.
We provide cash purses, and acquire sponsors so that the best of the best can come and play also.
It would be easy to try and turn our club into a pure profit machine. Eliminate all classes with less than 8 entries per event. Make a larger spectacle out of the premier races, possible even extend them by a couple of laps. Remove all YSR classes and the new JR Motard.
But that is absolutely NOT what the CMRA is about. I will go down fighting for the weekend warriors. Those of us not born with a silver spoon in our mouth who have to balance safety and costs. (Can I make that tire last one more race or do I have to buy a new set now?)
Even some of our CMRA 'superstars' who scrounge up money by selling used parts to get them to the next money paying venue are what this club is about.
It's about coming out and having fun.
Events like the Motard, Jr Motard, Vintage, and mini endurance are what the CMRA is about.
All of this balanced around the big events like the largest and most succesful endurance series in the country, year after year is what the CMRA is about.
Damn I ramble...see yall
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Marcus,
No offense, but if you identify the users of the BBS as a group other than the one which would benefit the most from a potential realignment by the CMRA of its sanctioning relationship, why are you going on and on and ON about this subject on the BBS. When you advise identifying leveraging strengths, etc, to whom are you speaking? Surely you and I have spoken often enough on this subject to know that the BOD has been working on these issues for sometime. I challenge you or anyone else to analyze this situation more completely than is being done. To have explored any more options and alternative ideas than we have. To have assembled proformas and budgets that take the various options into consideration in regards as to how they might impact the financial future of the organization. And most importantly, how the proposals might effect our members, fast, slow, ambitious and otherwise. If the time had been right to present all of this to the membership, we would have already done so. As you should know perhaps better than most, there are ongoing discussions and other fluid situations involved that must be resolved before a prudent case can be made and presented to the CMRA's membership.
As far as the promotion of our racers to opportunities on a level higher than club racing, I could point to the five CMRA racers who have been named for the second year to the RRWorld "Young Guns" roster. I could remind you of the publicity, including photos of our racers who participate in the Horizion Award races. I could point to Danny Eslick who has earned a ride with the Suzuki factory. Seeing Ty Howard, Kevin Pate, Heath Small and John Haner, along with James Comption on the AMA grids is enough for me to realize that talent rises to the top regardless of affiliation. None of these racers have a ride due to a sanctioning body affiliation. In this vein, I totally disagree that CCS hurts (or helps) our cause. I'd say the same about any other sanctioning body on the club level. Solid, top notch competition and good tracks both of which the CMRA provides in abundance count the most.
Publicity is the key ingredient to getting this news out. Here is where the CMRA has been lacking. To solve this situaation, we have just hired a newletter writter/editor/publisher who is well versed in the field (currently providing info to RRWorld and C News). We have commissioned a PR package from a professional advertising agency run by a CMRA member (at no cost to the club, I might add). We will solve the PR deficency on our own, thank you very much.
I appreciate all of the open attitudes expressed in this thread. I just want to make the point that there is not a single authority on this subject contrary to the massive number postings. These issues have long-term ramifications and deserve a careful, non-biased review. Which they are certainly receiving. The conclusions will be presented to all of the CMRA membership.
Just my 2 cents. (I was serious about the no offense comment).
Brooks
PS, I also take issue with the observation, "the last thing we need is another big race". Really?
Can anyone tell me who is the fastest club racer, by class in the country? Prove it. Until you can, an event that provides the opportunity for the best racers in the country to compete against each other is what "big race" were missing. (The current situation is analogous to the mythical college football national champion). Don't think that this situation is not being worked on at this moment.
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Marcus,
No offense, but if you identify the users of the BBS as a group other than the one which would benefit the most from a potential realignment by the CMRA of its sanctioning relationship, why are you going on and on and ON about this subject on the BBS. When you advise identifying leveraging strengths, etc, to whom are you speaking? Surely you and I have spoken often enough on this subject to know that the BOD has been working on these issues for sometime. I challenge you or anyone else to analyze this situation more completely than is being done. To have explored any more options and alternative ideas than we have. To have assembled proformas and budgets that take the various options into consideration in regards as to how they might impact the financial future of the organization. And most importantly, how the proposals might effect our members, fast, slow, ambitious and otherwise. If the time had been right to present all of this to the membership, we would have already done so. As you should know perhaps better than most, there are ongoing discussions and other fluid situations involved that must be resolved before a prudent case can be made and presented to the CMRA's membership.
As far as the promotion of our racers to opportunities on a level higher than club racing, I could point to the five CMRA racers who have been named for the second year to the RRWorld "Young Guns" roster. I could remind you of the publicity, including photos of our racers who participate in the Horizion Award races. I could point to Danny Eslick who has earned a ride with the Suzuki factory. Seeing Ty Howard, Kevin Pate, Heath Small and John Haner, along with James Comption on the AMA grids is enough for me to realize that talent rises to the top regardless of affiliation. None of these racers have a ride due to a sanctioning body affiliation. In this vein, I totally disagree that CCS hurts (or helps) our cause. I'd say the same about any other sanctioning body on the club level. Solid, top notch competition and good tracks both of which the CMRA provides in abundance count the most.
Publicity is the key ingredient to getting this news out. Here is where the CMRA has been lacking. To solve this situaation, we have just hired a newletter writter/editor/publisher who is well versed in the field (currently providing info to RRWorld and C News). We have commissioned a PR package from a professional advertising agency run by a CMRA member (at no cost to the club, I might add). We will solve the PR deficency on our own, thank you very much.
I appreciate all of the open attitudes expressed in this thread. I just want to make the point that there is not a single authority on this subject contrary to the massive number postings. These issues have long-term ramifications and deserve a careful, non-biased review. Which they are certainly receiving. The conclusions will be presented to all of the CMRA membership.
Just my 2 cents. (I was serious about the no offense comment).
Brooks
PS, I also take issue with the observation, "the last thing we need is another big race". Really?
Can anyone tell me who is the fastest club racer, by class in the country? Prove it. Until you can, an event that provides the opportunity for the best racers in the country to compete against each other is what "big race" were missing. (The current situation is analogous to the mythical college football national champion). Don't think that this situation is not being worked on at this moment.
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Rob and Everyone else,
I don't believe there is a "black and white" answer for this question. If there was, the question would have surely been answered by now.
- If you go independent, you don't know the impact on contingency and programs for several years. Again, the one year (since I have been in the club) we enjoyed legacy status. There is not an example or situation in the last 15 years that illustrates a pro or con.
- Yes, insurance, etc. can be cheaper through nationally negotiated deals, but as it has been mentioned is it worth it?
My main concern is the high turn-over in this sport does not promote mature forward looking decisions necessarily. Yes we have an elected BOD with several members that represent the different facets of racing. The last time the CMRA did a split, it was not a democratic process, the board made a decision and it was done. I was chucked out of the meeting after 5 minutes with no one (BOD Members) wanting to discuss any of the compelling reasons. We can't let this happen again. I made the point that a BBS referendum is not accurate. I also brought up specific examples of how racers disproportionately get representation.
In answer to everyone's question, there is no answer. NO ONE KNOWS what the real impact of being an independent means. Any immediate impact can (and will be offset by loss/gain of services down the road). No one club that I know of in the last 15 years has split away and stayed independent.
So I guess to more accurately combine my points a good process would be to:
1) Analyze the demographics of entries
2) Analyze the club charter - Things to think about in my mind:
a) Are there classes that are not heavily attended buy a key introduction for racing (esp. Kids)?
b) Are there classes that are heavily attended, but are problematic to administer.
c) What is ROI for mini and big bike endurance/sprint races.
d) What is in the best interest for motorcycle racing on a long term basis both regionally and nationally.
That is my final egotistical answer. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
Marcus
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Rob and Everyone else,
I don't believe there is a "black and white" answer for this question. If there was, the question would have surely been answered by now.
- If you go independent, you don't know the impact on contingency and programs for several years. Again, the one year (since I have been in the club) we enjoyed legacy status. There is not an example or situation in the last 15 years that illustrates a pro or con.
- Yes, insurance, etc. can be cheaper through nationally negotiated deals, but as it has been mentioned is it worth it?
My main concern is the high turn-over in this sport does not promote mature forward looking decisions necessarily. Yes we have an elected BOD with several members that represent the different facets of racing. The last time the CMRA did a split, it was not a democratic process, the board made a decision and it was done. I was chucked out of the meeting after 5 minutes with no one (BOD Members) wanting to discuss any of the compelling reasons. We can't let this happen again. I made the point that a BBS referendum is not accurate. I also brought up specific examples of how racers disproportionately get representation.
In answer to everyone's question, there is no answer. NO ONE KNOWS what the real impact of being an independent means. Any immediate impact can (and will be offset by loss/gain of services down the road). No one club that I know of in the last 15 years has split away and stayed independent.
So I guess to more accurately combine my points a good process would be to:
1) Analyze the demographics of entries
2) Analyze the club charter - Things to think about in my mind:
a) Are there classes that are not heavily attended buy a key introduction for racing (esp. Kids)?
b) Are there classes that are heavily attended, but are problematic to administer.
c) What is ROI for mini and big bike endurance/sprint races.
d) What is in the best interest for motorcycle racing on a long term basis both regionally and nationally.
That is my final egotistical answer. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
Marcus
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Originally posted by Brooks Gremmels:
Marcus,
No offense, but if you identify the users of the BBS as a group other than the one which would benefit the most from a potential realignment by the CMRA of its sanctioning relationship, why are you going on and on and ON about this subject on the BBS. When you advise identifying leveraging strengths, etc, to whom are you speaking? Surely you and I have spoken often enough on this subject to know that the BOD has been working on these issues for sometime.
Brooks, the point I was making was about a BBS referendum vs. actual cold hard facts. I think there are several examples of a popular BBS idea where "everyone will come" and we get no reciprol turnout compared to BBS opinion.
I haven't really said too much that would sway my opinion or anyone else's. I don't believe I am trying to sell any idea other than I am concerned being "independent" is a great idea until you probably are...
I am focused throughout my discussions on a daily basis that not only the CMRA BOD realize the commodity that can be leveraged, but also the body does. I mean really, how many racers spend time in the pits analyzing the strength in entries against the ability to leverage positions with national sanctioning bodies. I am implying CMRA has the strength to make as many demands as concessions when negotiating. It is the Wal-Mart model. Who set's the prices Wal-Mart pays/charges? Wal-Mart does...not the manufacturer's. I believe the philosophy that goes into this negotiation model is very applicable to the CMRA's position. There is a huge opportunity to not only positively affect the regions success, but because of the unique strength of the CMRA, it can also guide national success. You and others may say that is not CMRA's responsibility, but I say it is. We (as a whole in the industry) have muddled our sport to inadequate mediocrity through a tremendous amount of ineffective effort. People go to McDonald's becuase they can get the same Big Mac anywhere. I believe that if we in the roadracing community do not align ourselves into a consistent product, then our sport will not grow as much as it deserves to. Yeah, you can run a big year end club race. It may be successful, but I firmly believe you are choosing to win a battle by sacrificing the war.
With a critical discussion in (and outside) this forum, If the membership as a whole doesn't understand this impact the wrong decision could be made...again. We will know if a decision is made and members are being told to leave the board meeting after 3 or 4 minutes.
Marcus
Re: What do you get from an affiliation?
Originally posted by Brooks Gremmels:
Marcus,
No offense, but if you identify the users of the BBS as a group other than the one which would benefit the most from a potential realignment by the CMRA of its sanctioning relationship, why are you going on and on and ON about this subject on the BBS. When you advise identifying leveraging strengths, etc, to whom are you speaking? Surely you and I have spoken often enough on this subject to know that the BOD has been working on these issues for sometime.
Brooks, the point I was making was about a BBS referendum vs. actual cold hard facts. I think there are several examples of a popular BBS idea where "everyone will come" and we get no reciprol turnout compared to BBS opinion.
I haven't really said too much that would sway my opinion or anyone else's. I don't believe I am trying to sell any idea other than I am concerned being "independent" is a great idea until you probably are...
I am focused throughout my discussions on a daily basis that not only the CMRA BOD realize the commodity that can be leveraged, but also the body does. I mean really, how many racers spend time in the pits analyzing the strength in entries against the ability to leverage positions with national sanctioning bodies. I am implying CMRA has the strength to make as many demands as concessions when negotiating. It is the Wal-Mart model. Who set's the prices Wal-Mart pays/charges? Wal-Mart does...not the manufacturer's. I believe the philosophy that goes into this negotiation model is very applicable to the CMRA's position. There is a huge opportunity to not only positively affect the regions success, but because of the unique strength of the CMRA, it can also guide national success. You and others may say that is not CMRA's responsibility, but I say it is. We (as a whole in the industry) have muddled our sport to inadequate mediocrity through a tremendous amount of ineffective effort. People go to McDonald's becuase they can get the same Big Mac anywhere. I believe that if we in the roadracing community do not align ourselves into a consistent product, then our sport will not grow as much as it deserves to. Yeah, you can run a big year end club race. It may be successful, but I firmly believe you are choosing to win a battle by sacrificing the war.
With a critical discussion in (and outside) this forum, If the membership as a whole doesn't understand this impact the wrong decision could be made...again. We will know if a decision is made and members are being told to leave the board meeting after 3 or 4 minutes.
Marcus
