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Shat happens . . . I'm not casting blame, and do not claim to have a solution, but the now-common practice of shortening the already extremely brief sprints is a very undesireable option to dealing with raceday problems. What can be done to fix this? Its hard to say that a four-lap sprint at TWS is even worth the trip. I would be in favor of dropping classes from the roster, including ones I now race in, if it would fix this problem. This is a very bothersome issue.
Ronnie - Exp. #60
Shat happens . . . I'm not casting blame, and do not claim to have a solution, but the now-common practice of shortening the already extremely brief sprints is a very undesireable option to dealing with raceday problems. What can be done to fix this? Its hard to say that a four-lap sprint at TWS is even worth the trip. I would be in favor of dropping classes from the roster, including ones I now race in, if it would fix this problem. This is a very bothersome issue.
Ronnie - Exp. #60
Ronnie I feel your pain. All the classes and events added this year as far as I know have been
before the lunch break. The actual race day classes from lunch on haven't been changed.
This weekend was huge with entries and a abnormal
amount of red flags and I can't remember the last time the races were delayed on a Sunday with
both ambulances being gone. It would be easier if the CMRA did the AMA thing and cut everything down to a few classes but it wouldn't
be club racing then. The bikes you, me and your
brother race wouldn't even be eligable.
Trust me, they (the CMRA) weren't any happier about going into the dark and postfoning a race
anymore then anyone else.
It'll get better or they will tweak something because no one wants to be there after dark.
Ronnie I feel your pain. All the classes and events added this year as far as I know have been
before the lunch break. The actual race day classes from lunch on haven't been changed.
This weekend was huge with entries and a abnormal
amount of red flags and I can't remember the last time the races were delayed on a Sunday with
both ambulances being gone. It would be easier if the CMRA did the AMA thing and cut everything down to a few classes but it wouldn't
be club racing then. The bikes you, me and your
brother race wouldn't even be eligable.
Trust me, they (the CMRA) weren't any happier about going into the dark and postfoning a race
anymore then anyone else.
It'll get better or they will tweak something because no one wants to be there after dark.
Our primary problem this month is central standard time (it gets dark too early). Next month we will have another hour, BUT, if we combined more of the obscure classes we could cut the number of races. I would not want to see any classes eliminated because diversity is what makes this club so much fun. However, a race with less than 10 riders on the track is not very good time management. Even 20 riders on the grid is small.
I have heard comments about safety and closing speeds and that is a very important concern, but unless you combine minis with big bikes, the closing speeds will not be any greater than some of those encountered on Saturday in the endurance race (which grids more than 40 every race). The extra 30 minutes would have bought enough time to see an extremely competitive MMS Am race yesterday!
Any thoughts?
MH
Our primary problem this month is central standard time (it gets dark too early). Next month we will have another hour, BUT, if we combined more of the obscure classes we could cut the number of races. I would not want to see any classes eliminated because diversity is what makes this club so much fun. However, a race with less than 10 riders on the track is not very good time management. Even 20 riders on the grid is small.
I have heard comments about safety and closing speeds and that is a very important concern, but unless you combine minis with big bikes, the closing speeds will not be any greater than some of those encountered on Saturday in the endurance race (which grids more than 40 every race). The extra 30 minutes would have bought enough time to see an extremely competitive MMS Am race yesterday!
Any thoughts?
MH
yep, i missed the mwss race too. oh well.
i at least know i have a "free" race come next time at TWS.
The upside? the sun is staying out longer, so chances are this wont happen again anyway. sunset in the dallas area this weekend was around 630 officially. sunset in mid april will be about 7pm. dont you just love spring and summer? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
yep, i missed the mwss race too. oh well.
i at least know i have a "free" race come next time at TWS.
The upside? the sun is staying out longer, so chances are this wont happen again anyway. sunset in the dallas area this weekend was around 630 officially. sunset in mid april will be about 7pm. dont you just love spring and summer? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
We are looking into both short term, and long term solutions to cram it all in.
Shortening of races is nothing new. I remember 4 lap races on the SHORT track.
At least by flipping the schedule every other race it is not always the same classes getting shortchanged. I agree though that it is unfair to keep shortening races.
Now if ya'll would quit crashing, everything would be fine.
Just kidding.
One other note, even though we added classes, we did NOT add any races to the schedule. We have been running 21 races on Sunday for a few years now. We eliminated the Prov Nov race in order to add Motard/Vintage.
Elimination of the smallest classes to give us extra time is not a good idea. This is counterproductive...Let me give an extreme example-
We could eliminate all the support classes such as Supersingles, Vintage/Motard/Classic, etc and just leave the 600cc and 750cc classes.
That would give us the most profit, and plenty of extra daylight.
But the CMRA has always been about club racing and about being able to race just about any bike manufactured.
I think there are better alternatives than eliminating whole classes. This might include moving some to Saturday, or only racing some classes at certain tracks.
I would like some input on a suggestion someone gave at TWS
(should we run Mini and Motard at TWS?) Why not only run these classes at Cresson/Oak Hill, and one Hallett? This would still give 6 races for the year.
These could be run on Saturday - especially at Oak Hill since we do not run big bike endurance there.
We are looking into both short term, and long term solutions to cram it all in.
Shortening of races is nothing new. I remember 4 lap races on the SHORT track.
At least by flipping the schedule every other race it is not always the same classes getting shortchanged. I agree though that it is unfair to keep shortening races.
Now if ya'll would quit crashing, everything would be fine.
Just kidding.
One other note, even though we added classes, we did NOT add any races to the schedule. We have been running 21 races on Sunday for a few years now. We eliminated the Prov Nov race in order to add Motard/Vintage.
Elimination of the smallest classes to give us extra time is not a good idea. This is counterproductive...Let me give an extreme example-
We could eliminate all the support classes such as Supersingles, Vintage/Motard/Classic, etc and just leave the 600cc and 750cc classes.
That would give us the most profit, and plenty of extra daylight.
But the CMRA has always been about club racing and about being able to race just about any bike manufactured.
I think there are better alternatives than eliminating whole classes. This might include moving some to Saturday, or only racing some classes at certain tracks.
I would like some input on a suggestion someone gave at TWS
(should we run Mini and Motard at TWS?) Why not only run these classes at Cresson/Oak Hill, and one Hallett? This would still give 6 races for the year.
These could be run on Saturday - especially at Oak Hill since we do not run big bike endurance there.
I agree Ronnie, it's sad to see races reduced to 4 laps. Many new classes are adding to an already tight schedule. Red flags and extensive clean-up didn't help but we need to allow extra time for these types of delays and it just seems there isn't any time. More daylight hours really only helps us at Oak Hill, I don't know the current arrangement with TWS but in the past the club had to pay more rental fees every time we ran late and I believe the same holds true for MSR and Hallett.
All in all I think Walter and the rest of the staff are doing there best to get it all done, but I do think it's time to get rid of the classes that don't carry their weight and there are a few that have not done so for several years now. Don't get me wrong I'm all for diversity but we got rid of the provisional classes that averaged over 10 entries a weekend and continued to schedule others which have not averaged anywhere close to that number.
Bryan can we flip flop the before lunch races so they run at the end of the day? The way we currently flip the schedule those races are not impacted, they will always run full length races because they are excluded from the schedule flip.
I agree Ronnie, it's sad to see races reduced to 4 laps. Many new classes are adding to an already tight schedule. Red flags and extensive clean-up didn't help but we need to allow extra time for these types of delays and it just seems there isn't any time. More daylight hours really only helps us at Oak Hill, I don't know the current arrangement with TWS but in the past the club had to pay more rental fees every time we ran late and I believe the same holds true for MSR and Hallett.
All in all I think Walter and the rest of the staff are doing there best to get it all done, but I do think it's time to get rid of the classes that don't carry their weight and there are a few that have not done so for several years now. Don't get me wrong I'm all for diversity but we got rid of the provisional classes that averaged over 10 entries a weekend and continued to schedule others which have not averaged anywhere close to that number.
Bryan can we flip flop the before lunch races so they run at the end of the day? The way we currently flip the schedule those races are not impacted, they will always run full length races because they are excluded from the schedule flip.
Brad, that is an interesting suggestion. I will bring that up as one option.
Again though, everyone seems to think that we have added RACES to the schedule, we have not.
We added classes, and are running those within the existing races.
The only exception is we removed the provnov race and replaced it with another.
We did not add any more races to our daily schedule.
The reason for shortening races has nothing to do with the classes we have added.
Brad, that is an interesting suggestion. I will bring that up as one option.
Again though, everyone seems to think that we have added RACES to the schedule, we have not.
We added classes, and are running those within the existing races.
The only exception is we removed the provnov race and replaced it with another.
We did not add any more races to our daily schedule.
The reason for shortening races has nothing to do with the classes we have added.
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Hey Bryon, could you speak up and repeat that for the folks in the back of the room.
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Hey Bryon, could you speak up and repeat that for the folks in the back of the room.
What are you doing in the back of the room Mr. Dibble???? Trying to hide from the teacher??? Not prepared for class??????!!!!!!!
Ronnie
What are you doing in the back of the room Mr. Dibble???? Trying to hide from the teacher??? Not prepared for class??????!!!!!!!
Ronnie
i dont know the rules but i noticed there weren't alot of entrants for motards and vintage, and a couple of others. whats wrong with combining several classes?
And if you did that, you could throw in a "naked bike" class too. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
If you move some big bike sprints to saturday, my wife is gonna kill me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
i dont know the rules but i noticed there weren't alot of entrants for motards and vintage, and a couple of others. whats wrong with combining several classes?
And if you did that, you could throw in a "naked bike" class too. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
If you move some big bike sprints to saturday, my wife is gonna kill me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
Hey Bryan,
Thanks for pointing out that we replaced the Prov-Am races with the Motard race.
But my question is why? The Prov-Am race has averaged over 10 bikes per race (and over 30 bikes on some weekends)for many years, and gives some of the more timid and unsure new racers a place to race with out the intimidation of getting lapped by the fastets Am's.
Now we have a motard race that hasn't had 10 entries combining the first two race weekends.
But hey what do I know I'm just a racer that won't be running for a BOD position anytime soon.
As for adding races, I think there was a race added, but not sure if another was cut to fit it in, wasn't the MINI Motard race run by itself at TWS? If so what was cut to fit it in? And on the same note the riders meeting also doubled as an awards ceremony which could've waited until the end of the day like the rest of the awards.
As for alternating the "before lunch races" to the end of the day, it should work just fine, other CCS regions run a few "big bike" sprint races before lunch on Saturdays.
Good luck,
Troy Green
CMRA #1
Hey Bryan,
Thanks for pointing out that we replaced the Prov-Am races with the Motard race.
But my question is why? The Prov-Am race has averaged over 10 bikes per race (and over 30 bikes on some weekends)for many years, and gives some of the more timid and unsure new racers a place to race with out the intimidation of getting lapped by the fastets Am's.
Now we have a motard race that hasn't had 10 entries combining the first two race weekends.
But hey what do I know I'm just a racer that won't be running for a BOD position anytime soon.
As for adding races, I think there was a race added, but not sure if another was cut to fit it in, wasn't the MINI Motard race run by itself at TWS? If so what was cut to fit it in? And on the same note the riders meeting also doubled as an awards ceremony which could've waited until the end of the day like the rest of the awards.
As for alternating the "before lunch races" to the end of the day, it should work just fine, other CCS regions run a few "big bike" sprint races before lunch on Saturdays.
Good luck,
Troy Green
CMRA #1
The mini races before lunch are a great break from practice until the first big bike race of the day. Time to change tires and fix stuff from practice. Something else, rarely, if ever, are the mini races redflagged or require ambulance. (God I hope I didn't jinx us, knock on wood). The mini races almost always go without a hitch.
Jess
The mini races before lunch are a great break from practice until the first big bike race of the day. Time to change tires and fix stuff from practice. Something else, rarely, if ever, are the mini races redflagged or require ambulance. (God I hope I didn't jinx us, knock on wood). The mini races almost always go without a hitch.
Jess
Ah I knew there was a reason. Jess tagged it.
IT is to allow you big bike guys time between practice to mount up new rubber...
Now we might be able to do some more combining, but the idea is that if we combine two classes of similar models, this removes the opportunity to run both classes (like if we combined Mediumweight and heavyweight superbike)
We removed Prov Am because we found it silly to run the provam race at the end of the day. That means that several of these guys had already run in other classes anyway.
Motard is a class we are promoting, and hope to grow larger, just like Vintage and the new extension of Classic.
Ah I knew there was a reason. Jess tagged it.
IT is to allow you big bike guys time between practice to mount up new rubber...
Now we might be able to do some more combining, but the idea is that if we combine two classes of similar models, this removes the opportunity to run both classes (like if we combined Mediumweight and heavyweight superbike)
We removed Prov Am because we found it silly to run the provam race at the end of the day. That means that several of these guys had already run in other classes anyway.
Motard is a class we are promoting, and hope to grow larger, just like Vintage and the new extension of Classic.
One thing that was good about the prov nov race, it was at the end of the day and was of little consequence if it had to be cancelled.
It's a shame to see the MWSS race shortened, postponed and/or cancelled - especially since tire management is such an issue with the big bikes.
Is there another race that isn't so populated that could be run as the last race? Just an idea, not trying to 'pick on' anyone! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
One thing that was good about the prov nov race, it was at the end of the day and was of little consequence if it had to be cancelled.
It's a shame to see the MWSS race shortened, postponed and/or cancelled - especially since tire management is such an issue with the big bikes.
Is there another race that isn't so populated that could be run as the last race? Just an idea, not trying to 'pick on' anyone! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
I was signed up for the MWSS race that was postponed until next TWS weekend. Personally, I don't thing it's that big of a deal. Yeah I wish it wouldn't have happened, but it was because of uncontrollable circumstances. It really is no big deal as far as I'm concerned. It can be worked around and I'd much rather run it on a different weekend than cancel or combine a class resulting in less opportunity for other riders to race. I really doubt it will happen again, and if it does, again, no big deal, it can be worked around.
My two cents, I guess I'm just flexible kinda guy and this incident isn't anything to worry over. Right?
Nate
I was signed up for the MWSS race that was postponed until next TWS weekend. Personally, I don't thing it's that big of a deal. Yeah I wish it wouldn't have happened, but it was because of uncontrollable circumstances. It really is no big deal as far as I'm concerned. It can be worked around and I'd much rather run it on a different weekend than cancel or combine a class resulting in less opportunity for other riders to race. I really doubt it will happen again, and if it does, again, no big deal, it can be worked around.
My two cents, I guess I'm just flexible kinda guy and this incident isn't anything to worry over. Right?
Nate
BYRAN!!
If ya'll decide to not run TWS on the Motards, PLEASE let us run both the Hallet events. Sat, Sun, or what ever [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] We could combine Motard, Supermotard, Vintage or however you think is best, but please, please, please, don't cut out one of the short tracks. They are the ENTIRE reason for building one of these "things".
BTW, Eric F. and everyone else was right, the short course was a BLAST.
BYRAN!!
If ya'll decide to not run TWS on the Motards, PLEASE let us run both the Hallet events. Sat, Sun, or what ever [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] We could combine Motard, Supermotard, Vintage or however you think is best, but please, please, please, don't cut out one of the short tracks. They are the ENTIRE reason for building one of these "things".
BTW, Eric F. and everyone else was right, the short course was a BLAST.
Hey guys, I have been around the club scene a little while and occasionally we have had to shorten races ( a good thing when you're over forty and racing 10-15 races a day) to finish a weekend, but it is rather rare . I think most of us racers may have a hard time making races on Saturday which are normally on Sunday. Work, wives , children ,etc. We certainly don't want to cancel any races if possibly , for all of us racers; especially superMotard... I just got my 730 big bore kit, and turbocharger in, soooooo.... please don't cancel this class (everyone seemed to make such a stink about us not having this class) and more people have said they're still getting their bikes ready!!! Okay guys , thanks to my Wife and Son for making my weekend a husbands and fathers great time! Eric
Hey guys, I have been around the club scene a little while and occasionally we have had to shorten races ( a good thing when you're over forty and racing 10-15 races a day) to finish a weekend, but it is rather rare . I think most of us racers may have a hard time making races on Saturday which are normally on Sunday. Work, wives , children ,etc. We certainly don't want to cancel any races if possibly , for all of us racers; especially superMotard... I just got my 730 big bore kit, and turbocharger in, soooooo.... please don't cancel this class (everyone seemed to make such a stink about us not having this class) and more people have said they're still getting their bikes ready!!! Okay guys , thanks to my Wife and Son for making my weekend a husbands and fathers great time! Eric
Like you need that stuff Eric [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
Heck, Brooks said somethin' about a restrictor plate for you for the next race anyway [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
Like you need that stuff Eric [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
Heck, Brooks said somethin' about a restrictor plate for you for the next race anyway [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
please don't kill the motard class, I still plan on running it, but... you wont believe it, but my elbow re-dislocated while working on my truck Friday, so it looks like another month down and unable to run. Would hate to see the class killed, when it sounds like the involvemnt is increasing, though be it slowly. :rolleyes:
JMHO
Scott
please don't kill the motard class, I still plan on running it, but... you wont believe it, but my elbow re-dislocated while working on my truck Friday, so it looks like another month down and unable to run. Would hate to see the class killed, when it sounds like the involvemnt is increasing, though be it slowly. :rolleyes:
JMHO
Scott
Yup, and as soon as LJB get his stuff back in order, new young u'n and all, he will be here. He already has his bike too!
Yup, and as soon as LJB get his stuff back in order, new young u'n and all, he will be here. He already has his bike too!
I am with Eddie run Motard on SAT and SUN at Oakhill Hallett and MSR.My bike is ready but I chose notto run TWS.I am off to Phoneix to do a real Motard race!!! ye ha. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] :p
I am with Eddie run Motard on SAT and SUN at Oakhill Hallett and MSR.My bike is ready but I chose notto run TWS.I am off to Phoneix to do a real Motard race!!! ye ha. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] :p
I thought the TWS short track was perfectly fine on the SuperMotard. I want to keep running it too. I had a blast. It took ALLOT of work getting that old P.O.S. ready to race, and I'll fight tooth and nail to keep the class going. Laugh if you must, but I will catch you guys eventually [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
Nate
1987 Honda CR250R SuperMoto
I thought the TWS short track was perfectly fine on the SuperMotard. I want to keep running it too. I had a blast. It took ALLOT of work getting that old P.O.S. ready to race, and I'll fight tooth and nail to keep the class going. Laugh if you must, but I will catch you guys eventually [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
Nate
1987 Honda CR250R SuperMoto
The motard classes are not going anywhere. (Any more than the mini's, which was suggested two years ago). If the hottest segment of the roadracing industry is popular enough to earn its own AMA series, it seems to me that we should give it a chance. Kevin Schwantz, Freddy Spencer, the Hayden's and Bostroms have said it's the most fun they've had on the track. They aren't getting any arguments from the CMRA members who have tried it. Ideally we would have an opportunity to run a 80/20 asphalt to dirt layout but for now we're doing what we can to accommodate these thumpers.
These classes don't add to the schedule's length and they provide an "Everyman's" opportunity to add to the enjoyment of CMRA roadracing.
Brooks
PS, Eric you are obviously intent on winning at all costs! Wait until you have to follow me with the blasts from my exhaust bruising your chest. I'm on the way to my skunk works now and the midnight oil will be burning.
The motard classes are not going anywhere. (Any more than the mini's, which was suggested two years ago). If the hottest segment of the roadracing industry is popular enough to earn its own AMA series, it seems to me that we should give it a chance. Kevin Schwantz, Freddy Spencer, the Hayden's and Bostroms have said it's the most fun they've had on the track. They aren't getting any arguments from the CMRA members who have tried it. Ideally we would have an opportunity to run a 80/20 asphalt to dirt layout but for now we're doing what we can to accommodate these thumpers.
These classes don't add to the schedule's length and they provide an "Everyman's" opportunity to add to the enjoyment of CMRA roadracing.
Brooks
PS, Eric you are obviously intent on winning at all costs! Wait until you have to follow me with the blasts from my exhaust bruising your chest. I'm on the way to my skunk works now and the midnight oil will be burning.
Bryan, I would appreciate a little more information about what is being considered with respect to cutting one of the Hallett Motard\SuperMoto races.
Bryan, I would appreciate a little more information about what is being considered with respect to cutting one of the Hallett Motard\SuperMoto races.
First, I would like to thank those of you who provided your inputs, this is what the club is about.
Secondly, nothing has even been tabled yet. I am just trying to get a feel for what you guys want or some suggestions from the members.
First, I would like to thank those of you who provided your inputs, this is what the club is about.
Secondly, nothing has even been tabled yet. I am just trying to get a feel for what you guys want or some suggestions from the members.