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Hmm saw something this weekend that reminded me of him. HIS number on a bike! Bob Dickey reminded us of how much we all forget the history of the CMRA with the Lou Linden question; I guess some history is forgotten entirely too quickly.
To Mark Perritte this in no way reflects upon you as you probably do not know the history of 145.
Would be a nice gesture for the CMRA to "retire" CMRA numbers like 145 and 19. (Amongst a few others I am sure.) Lets do it!
I thought they already were...
Well I was wondering if anything was going to be done about 145 and it has been brought to my attention that #4 is also out there.
???
I'm not sure why, but I don't seem to have the retired competition number list in my records.
Eric, Todd or Chris, why don't one of you email it to me?
I just looked through the 2001 and 2002 competition number lists.
Joe Prussiano had #4, Phillip Lawlis and Barb Prussiano had #19, no one was assigned #145, but there was no notation of any of them being retired.
????
I can remember the issue of retiring numbers coming up in a Board meeting a couple of years ago. As the discussion continued more names and numbers were added to the list of candidates. The discussion turned then to the criteria that should be used in determining the numbers to be retired. This is more involved than it appears at first blush.
When I see bikes with the number 19 on stickers and see at the Awards banquet that donations are being made in the name(s) of fallen racers, I know that their legacy is being more strongly preserved than it would be by dropping a number from sight.
Brooks
Retired numbers only two so far.
#4 Hugh Humble unsure year it was retired well before my time Joe Prussiano was number 9 last year he had been number 2 sharing it with John Haner in previous years
#145 Rodney Smith retired in 1998
#19 Ryan Smith 1999 was discussed but never was carried out and number has been assigned to riders since (Jim Bishop)
Joe Prussiano was number 9 last year he had been number 2 sharing it with John Haner in previous years
The retiring of numbers as I recall had been discussed but none other than Ryan Smith number really qualified and the time had passed in which to do it. A "qualification" of eligibilty was never settled on for future retired numbers.
Sorry Eric, but #9 last year was used by Danny Eslick.
"The retiring of numbers as I recall had been discussed but none other than Ryan Smith number really qualified and the time had passed in which to do it. A "qualification" of eligibilty was never settled on for future retired numbers."
Eric
Are you saying the time has passed and its too late to give Ryan his dew respect? No disrespect to the others, but Ryan was the only one of the three "racers" (that I know of in the last 10 years)who died ON THE TRACK. Just so happens all there last names were Smith. Its a shame he won't be remembered in the coming years as he dedicated his life to racing and the CMRA. As a racer and the friend of a fallen racer, thats real dissappointing!!!!
Mark Tuttle
No not saying Ryan should not be remembered or respected. I am not in a position to handle that nor was I in a position to retire the number at the time but the others WERE retired. 19 was issued again BEFORE it was retired is my only point. Could it be retired today???
Oh by the way Perry Braxmire, Joe Prussiano and Danny Eslick all had/ran number 9 sprint last year.
2002 rider list/program shows
RETIRED HUMBLE 4 Expert
RETIRED SMITH 145 Expert
Well, then I'm really not sure what's going on because the 2001 and 2002 license lists given to me show that Perry Braxmire's license expired in December, 2001.
Either he raced without a license last year (yikes) or these old license lists aren't very accurate! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]
They also show that Joe Prussiano ran #4 and Danny Eslick ran #9.
Obviously, if the information I've been given is inaccurate or incomplete, it limits my ability to offer accurate or correct information to anyone else. :rolleyes:
There was no 2001 rider list/program this is from the 2002 and there is not a 2003 (yet?)
Neither Joe nor Perry show to have raced last year according to the results.
No one has ever disrespected Ryan Smith or his memory. His number 19 has been on my bike and many, many others in the paddock. Mary and Ben Spies have provided auction items that have been donated in Ryan's name. Most importantly, the air fence that is now a fixture at most of our events honors Ryan and everyone who came before this product was available. In my donation for air fence, Ryan was specifically named as the honoree.
In sports, when a participant is honored by "retiring" his/her competition number, that number isn't dropped from sight. What kind of memorial would that be? The numbers and names are promenently displayed in a gymnasium, an arena, a field house or a stadium for all to see. That is exactly what is being described when a number is "retired". I don't know about every case but I knew two fallen racers who's numbers have not been "retired" by the AMA. Instead those numbers are circling tracks where the memories they carry can be shared by the other racers and fans.
I'd like to see a place where the CMRA could honor its past. Where memoriabilia and tributes could be displayed. I have been collecting some of these things that I would donate in a heartbeat. That, to me, would be the time to "retire" a number. Don't drop it from sight. Put the number plate and related tributes out where people can see who the club has chosen to honor. I would be the first to vote for those "retirements".
Brooks
I agree with Brooks - we're in a sport that doesn't really have fans honoring racers by wearing numbered jerseys, etc. If the number gets retired it's harder for the uninformed to ever hear the reason or story behind the number.
A better way to honor someone might be to award the numbers to someone each year for certain accomplishments or attributes.
Things like Sportsmanship, Supporting or helping the CMRA, and Most Improved come to mind - I'm sure there are others.
It could be voted upon by the racers or the Board or both.
It wouldn't cost the club anything and it might really mean a lot to the past racers family and the nominated racer as well.
my $.02 complete
Jonny
CRRC/CMRA racers that I know have been killed while racing (our events and others) since I started in 1988 (forgive me if I left someone out), and where:
Terry Exum (CRRC-TWS)
John Tauzin (CRRC/MCRA?-Gateway?)
John Chance (CRRC-Hallett)
Larry Schwartzbach (AMA-Mid Ohio)
Buddy Walton (CMRA/TMGP-Waco)
Ryan Smith (CMRA-TWS)
I don't think we should retire numbers. We should maintain them as racing numbers, and maybe have some sort of commemeration in our program, and either at the track or during the awards banquet. If numbers DID get retired, I think that only those who were killed at the track should qualify (hopefully the list only ever includes the five listed above, and Hugh Humble).
We've had about five other people I can think of who were killed (Brian Smith, Al Gutierrez, Charlie Dill, Rodney Smith, Ruben(?) Coronado); all died suddenly, not of natural causes, away from the track; they deserve to be remembered somehow, but I don't think we should retire their numbers.
IMHO
Point is two numbers HAVE been retired and are now not retired where is the respect for those riders? Is a number only retired until a new regime comes into power? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
People make mistakes. I know for a fact the past regime made mistakes. The current regime is making mistakes. Future regimes will make mistakes.
The current regime will take the responsibility to acknowledge its mistakes, correct them or ensure they don't happen again, and move on.
I, personally, will endeavour to minimize my mistakes, and those of others, until my term as a member of the current regime has been fully served. I won't quit early if things go against me, and make no mistake about that.
Ouch, that one is going to leave a mark.
Efren Coronado should be on your list.
David
For those that want to know a little bit more about who Rodney Smith was (as a rider), you can read about his team winning an overall endurance in the newsletters I have scanned in. I think it is the last 14 photos (newsletter) I scanned in a few weeks ago.
Marcus
Another CMRA racer that was killed not at a road race event but while dirt bike riding was Andy East. He rode on Team Beast years ago.
And Mark Maness.
Barb P.
And yet another.
Lord forgive me but I don't remember his name. He was a Novice or Junior out of the Houston area. He bought one of the "real" Lawson replicas back in the late `70's. He got into trouble after the horseshoe and highsided into the wall at NASCAR turn three at TWS. (OLD configuration, before the new inner track was built.)
Charles or Connie or someone who hasn't pickled their brains may remember him.
Just an idea, but maybe "retiring" the number for a year is a way to do it? Even then, a more permanent commemoration as Brooks and Chuck suggest is a good idea. Maybe once the numbers are "un-retired" they can be a different color, say red or blue. I don't know, just thinking out loud. I do think that the numbers should be re-used after a while, but that is JMO.
Eric, just gotta say this...
I'm not privy to the "inside line" on the details of the matters that put you at odds with the some of the current BOD members. I know you as a sincere, hard working leadership sort of guy. Yet, the first reading of your posts on this subject were unsetteling to me.
If you have reasons to disrespect anyone in the club it would be better to keep any discussions of that subject private. There are members of the racing community nation-wide that visit our discussion board and it can only harm the club when people sense disrespect within the leadership group. Note that my comment implies that you are one of the leaders of the club, this is true even if you do not currently hold a a formal position. Leadership comes from action and your actions in years past clearly make you a leader of the club. I think you have a responsibility to recognize this fact in all your public communications.
The implication that any member (much less leader) of the club is disrespectful of ANY racer, is just going too far. If it is your opinion that this is the case, definately take appropriate steps to help the disrespecting person understand that we are all "in this together". The appropriate steps, especially concerning such an emotional issue, clearly must include making sure your words are respectful. Even to the point of really making SURE there can be no misunderstanding.
I was very offended that you seemed to imply that somehow Nancy or the Board or someone was in some way inappropriate regarding the memory of fallen racers. The very idea of that is outragious. That there was the slighest implication to that effect is offensive to me. I cannot imagine you intended it; please be more careful.
If you did intend that implication, I would be very interested in understanding the details of the situation, as it would put the whole concept of the CMRA in a different light for me. If there is even the slightest disrespect for any racer in the club, then all of us are at needless additional risk.
You cannot avoid the burdens of leadership; you been there, done that and are widely known and respected in the racing community.
Still like ya, and comfortable sharing the track with ya.
Chuck
I think if we all go back and read Eric's posts in this thread, we might find there's been a serious overreaction on the part of our board members.
Eric's questions seem valid and simple. Did we or did we not retire some numbers? If we did, then how can we continue to respect the decisions of the past? Maybe he doesn't phrase them delicately, but they're good questions none-the-less.
I think it's really important that the board examine every question in it's own light, not in the light of prior actions or personal prejudices.
Vehemence and accusations, personal attacks directed at the questioner, and rhetoric that doesn't answer the fundamental question can only serve to distance the average member distances them from their elected officials.
My reaction was to statements such as, "Where is the respect for the riders?" and "Is a number only retired until a new regime comes into power?". These comments make neither simple or valid points.
My thoughts about these comments and those in a similair vein are contained in my post above.
If the questions about how the issue of recognizing those members who have departed had been addressed without casting aspersions of disrespect and high-handedness on the part of those managing the club's affairs, I would be the first to welcome such a discussion. In the meantime, there are a lot of people who are working way too hard for this organization for me to listen to charges of disrespect and overturned recognition. Those who have fallen command our respect and so do those who serve selflessly on behalf of the CMRA.
Brooks
I stand corrected.
Hmm not a whoops but no we don't think numbers should be retired. Fine but current BOD did not retire those numbers they had been retired by a previous BOD/officials (regime Encarta Definition controlling group: any controlling or managing group, or the system of control and management adopted by it sorry if you found it distasteful).
Then what is mentioned is a number that was NOT retired and respect that should be given to that person/number not the issue at hand.
No one meant any disrespect.
I think the problem was that there was no written information regarding the retirement of any number that was handed to the new secretary.
I am not sure the retirement of numbers was ever written anywhere, and if it was, this was not carried over to the new secretary. I'm not placing blame on either the past or present. There was not an intent to ignore or un-retire these numbers.
Maybe Nancy can contact the riders who hold the new numbers and see if a compromise can be worked out? (Use 4x or x4? For 145 maybe there is an alternate number available)
Then, the BoD should ensure that if a number is indeed retired, that this is documented in writing in a location that holds permanance(sp).
The argument over the significance of number retirement or alternative rememberance is beside the point of this thread.
SO WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THESE NUMBERS ,I AM NEW TO THE CLUB AND THIS IS WHAT I WALK INTO ,THIS IS GREAT .JUST WHAT I WANT.
MARK P.
#145
P.S. THE# I HAD WAS 45 AND WAS MADE TO CHANGE TO 145
Mark, you did not have #45 with the CMRA. And you were not MADE to take #145.
At the time you applied for your CMRA/CCS license, #45 was already taken and I believe we worked together to find a number that would work easily between your WERA #45 and the available CMRA numbers.
As I am new to the club also (October, 2002), I guess you could say that this is what I walked into too! If the old "regime" doesn't give the new "regime" all of the information it needs to do the job, I guess this is an example of what can happen.
I'm sure that it will all be resolved if we work together and not get TOO WORKED UP. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
There are still lots of competition numbers available if you'd like to change your number to something else. Give me a call and we'll take a look.
SORRY YES IT WAS WITH WERA #45 ,I DO NOT WANT TO HURT NO ONES FEELING'S AND SORRY IF I HAVE .I HAVE BEEN SETTING READING ALL THIS ABOUT A NUMBER I HAVE. SO PLEASE FOR GIVE ME I THINK I AM ALREADY THE BAD GUY I DON'T NEED ANY MORE.
AND NANCY YOU HAVE BEEN GREAT WHEN I HAVE TALK TO YOU ON THE PHONE.
Hey Mark,
On the left-hand side of the keyboard (right between the shift and the tab key) is the caps-lock. Do me a favor and hit that one time... Thanks.
Much more is forgotten than remembered. The turnover in this sport is entirely too high to expect any consistency in keeping records of who, what, where, and when.
There are only a handful of people that have been cosistently racing with this club for more than just a few years. That is just the way it is.
I am sure this matter will not be isolated, but I am entirely sure there is no consistent malicious intent.
Marcus
Mark called me today and we have changed his competition number to 451.
Please tell me that one hasn't been retired too!
Being a baby racer, I'd like to hear the stories associated with these numbers, if anyone has a few minutes.
One more thought: as far as a good place to post some kind of remembrance thing, what about a list painted on the side of the CMRA trailer? Just a nice little respectful list of #'s and names of the riders who are not with us anymore. Not anything flashy or inappropriate, just maybe white one to two inch lettering.
Just a thought, as it travels with us everywhere and is probably about as permanent as it gets in the club.
I am sure we have the web space to have a gallery with pics, memories, racing accomplishments, etc. of fallen racers. I think that would help us older guys remember, and give the newer racers a respect and understanding of the greatness of the racers and races that came before them.
I am not in favor of retiring numbers long term. The rest of the season and mabey the next is respectful and understood.