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i mentioned this in the General Forum, but thought i'd add it here for consideration:
If the E Superstock sprint was moved to saturday instead of sunday then i'm sure there would be a nice field of ninja 250s to participate. as it stands now, the 250 guys run the endurance and F4 sprint, then pack up and go home. hard to get them to stick around until sunday for one more sprint race.
I know changing the schedule isn't as easy as it sounds, but thought i'd throw it out there.
i mentioned this in the General Forum, but thought i'd add it here for consideration:
If the E Superstock sprint was moved to saturday instead of sunday then i'm sure there would be a nice field of ninja 250s to participate. as it stands now, the 250 guys run the endurance and F4 sprint, then pack up and go home. hard to get them to stick around until sunday for one more sprint race.
I know changing the schedule isn't as easy as it sounds, but thought i'd throw it out there.
I would probably be in on the 250r thing if the E race was moved to Saturday. Just my .02 cents, I think it's a good idea.
I would probably be in on the 250r thing if the E race was moved to Saturday. Just my .02 cents, I think it's a good idea.
I think the problems are paying an extra $10-20 in cornerworker/late entry fees to run on sunday.
The ESS entry is much more than the F4 entry.
If you enter a sat. race it doesn't count as a 1st entry on the sunday races.
Clubman and ESS are run together so only one race for them on sunday.
At least thats what I heard.
I think the problems are paying an extra $10-20 in cornerworker/late entry fees to run on sunday.
The ESS entry is much more than the F4 entry.
If you enter a sat. race it doesn't count as a 1st entry on the sunday races.
Clubman and ESS are run together so only one race for them on sunday.
At least thats what I heard.
if we get the second entry discount or not it'll still be a better turn out.... thus potentially more money for cmra.
i guess its still hard to justify having E superstock on saturday with only 4 or 5 enties though. maybe they could combine it with the F5/F7 race. I'd be all over that. then i could work for barry on sunday too... cash is gooood.
if we get the second entry discount or not it'll still be a better turn out.... thus potentially more money for cmra.
i guess its still hard to justify having E superstock on saturday with only 4 or 5 enties though. maybe they could combine it with the F5/F7 race. I'd be all over that. then i could work for barry on sunday too... cash is gooood.
Thanks for the input. We'll see if it can be worked out. If Walter can make it work. Thanks again. Norm
Thanks for the input. We'll see if it can be worked out. If Walter can make it work. Thanks again. Norm
As a mini racer, I'd REALLY rather not have ESS combined with anything related to the slowest bikes in the entire league. The approach speed between F4 and F7 bikes during endurance racing is already pretty horrific.
An ESS will probably lap a F7 bike at around lap 4 or 5 depending on the track, which is going to be no fun for the fast guys, and potentially devastating for everyone.
As a mini racer, I'd REALLY rather not have ESS combined with anything related to the slowest bikes in the entire league. The approach speed between F4 and F7 bikes during endurance racing is already pretty horrific.
An ESS will probably lap a F7 bike at around lap 4 or 5 depending on the track, which is going to be no fun for the fast guys, and potentially devastating for everyone.
i thought about that too, barry. after racing F7 for several years i know exactly what its like. getting buzzed by the F4 bikes is down right scary sometimes.
its going to be the same situation as endurance though, but with less lapping and traffic, so i don't see the difference there... if anything i think it presents safer passing/lapping than the endurance race.
i thought about that too, barry. after racing F7 for several years i know exactly what its like. getting buzzed by the F4 bikes is down right scary sometimes.
its going to be the same situation as endurance though, but with less lapping and traffic, so i don't see the difference there... if anything i think it presents safer passing/lapping than the endurance race.
I don't think they should be run w/ F7 sprints.
Mainly because the sprints have younger riders/less experienced riders.
I don't think they should be run w/ F7 sprints.
Mainly because the sprints have younger riders/less experienced riders.
I got an idea, let them run in Vintage. W/ the RD350's, BSA's and Triumphs.
I got an idea, let them run in Vintage. W/ the RD350's, BSA's and Triumphs.
on saturday?
on saturday?
Originally Posted By: Jon Broom
its going to be the same situation as endurance though, but with less lapping and traffic, so i don't see the difference there... if anything i think it presents safer passing/lapping than the endurance race.
It's not really the same. With endurance races you know the situation is that you'll be out there getting buzzed by faster bikes. Adding ESS to F5/F7 would take away the opportunity for those riders to not get buzzed by so many faster bike.
Also when you put faster bikes with slower bikes, you effectively guarantee that the slower bikes will get a shorter race because they will be lapped. Most of the F7 bikes are already getting lapped, and when you start seeing 20 or more second lap time differences (ESS times compared to F7), you start making it very possible to lap some of F7 bikes twice in one race. The faster laptimes from ESS would also mean that some of the F5 riders would get lapped.
Originally Posted By: Jon Broom
its going to be the same situation as endurance though, but with less lapping and traffic, so i don't see the difference there... if anything i think it presents safer passing/lapping than the endurance race.
It's not really the same. With endurance races you know the situation is that you'll be out there getting buzzed by faster bikes. Adding ESS to F5/F7 would take away the opportunity for those riders to not get buzzed by so many faster bike.
Also when you put faster bikes with slower bikes, you effectively guarantee that the slower bikes will get a shorter race because they will be lapped. Most of the F7 bikes are already getting lapped, and when you start seeing 20 or more second lap time differences (ESS times compared to F7), you start making it very possible to lap some of F7 bikes twice in one race. The faster laptimes from ESS would also mean that some of the F5 riders would get lapped.
yeah... good point
yeah... good point
I was joking. There is no Vintage racing.
I was joking. There is no Vintage racing.
When I grow up I wanna ride a big bike!! HA! LOL
When I grow up I wanna ride a big bike!! HA! LOL
I'd like to bring up this "old" thread because I heard some talk this weekend regarding this issue. I'd love to run ESS on Saturday but not with the F5/F7 bikes. Many of us have had to watch our dollars this year and for that reason alone, this would bring more racers into this class which would bring more $$ to the CMRA.
Example of someone who only has a bike for these two classes:
F4 (Sat.) $40 fees plus $10 cornerworking = $50 for the one race
ESS (Sun.) $70 fees plus $10 cornerworking = $80 for the one race
Total = $130 per weekend. I've only raced one F4 sprint race this year mostly because the cost/benefit is too much.
Another possible scenario:
Saturday - ESS $40 fee and F4 $30 fee plus $10 cornerworking = $80 in total fees. Personally, I would be racing in each of these classes at every race if this was the case. It would be worth the cost.
Please, don't bring the "racing isn't cheap" or "you knew what you were getting into" comments. I'm simply saying that the CMRA would have had (up to this past weekend) $400 from me alone in sprint fees vs. the $50 it currently has and I'd bet that I wouldn't be the only one that'd start racing ESS on Saturdays...especially with all of the potential "Rent My Ninja" racers.
Just my $.02
I'd like to bring up this "old" thread because I heard some talk this weekend regarding this issue. I'd love to run ESS on Saturday but not with the F5/F7 bikes. Many of us have had to watch our dollars this year and for that reason alone, this would bring more racers into this class which would bring more $$ to the CMRA.
Example of someone who only has a bike for these two classes:
F4 (Sat.) $40 fees plus $10 cornerworking = $50 for the one race
ESS (Sun.) $70 fees plus $10 cornerworking = $80 for the one race
Total = $130 per weekend. I've only raced one F4 sprint race this year mostly because the cost/benefit is too much.
Another possible scenario:
Saturday - ESS $40 fee and F4 $30 fee plus $10 cornerworking = $80 in total fees. Personally, I would be racing in each of these classes at every race if this was the case. It would be worth the cost.
Please, don't bring the "racing isn't cheap" or "you knew what you were getting into" comments. I'm simply saying that the CMRA would have had (up to this past weekend) $400 from me alone in sprint fees vs. the $50 it currently has and I'd bet that I wouldn't be the only one that'd start racing ESS on Saturdays...especially with all of the potential "Rent My Ninja" racers.
Just my $.02
Jeff's point reminds me that I've thought for a while now that we could probably move Clubman to Saturday and get much bigger grids since at any given event it's already half F4 bikes, anyway. ESS could naturally go with it.
Since most Clubman "big" bikes are only competitive in Clubman, it probably wouldn't make too big a difference to those who ride them (I've been one of them, myself), and they might appreciate the price break.
However, I do get the impression that the Saturday schedule is already jam-packed as it is. And the relative peace-and-quiet of the Clubman race on Sunday makes for a nice late-morning break for those who don't race it. But if we could fit one more sprint into Saturday, moving Clubman and ESS together might put a lot of bikes on the track (that would otherwise be loaded up in the trailer) and more than offset the reduced fees per entry for the club.
Just a thought. Make what you will of it.
-A
Jeff's point reminds me that I've thought for a while now that we could probably move Clubman to Saturday and get much bigger grids since at any given event it's already half F4 bikes, anyway. ESS could naturally go with it.
Since most Clubman "big" bikes are only competitive in Clubman, it probably wouldn't make too big a difference to those who ride them (I've been one of them, myself), and they might appreciate the price break.
However, I do get the impression that the Saturday schedule is already jam-packed as it is. And the relative peace-and-quiet of the Clubman race on Sunday makes for a nice late-morning break for those who don't race it. But if we could fit one more sprint into Saturday, moving Clubman and ESS together might put a lot of bikes on the track (that would otherwise be loaded up in the trailer) and more than offset the reduced fees per entry for the club.
Just a thought. Make what you will of it.
-A
all scheduling questions go through Walter (thank goodness). I am sure he will respond when he finds time in a couple of days.
all scheduling questions go through Walter (thank goodness). I am sure he will respond when he finds time in a couple of days.
as much as i want to race ESS, i've kinda had to give it up. staying an extra day to spend 80 bucks to do one race that no one else is in kinda sucks. especially when there isn't even enough entries to bring in contingency money. the turn out is getting better as the year goes on and more 250s show up though.
although, i'm not convinced that the field of 250s would be much bigger on saturday either. there was a lot of 250s in the endurance this weekend and at hallett, but only about half of them do the sprints... not sure why.
as much as i want to race ESS, i've kinda had to give it up. staying an extra day to spend 80 bucks to do one race that no one else is in kinda sucks. especially when there isn't even enough entries to bring in contingency money. the turn out is getting better as the year goes on and more 250s show up though.
although, i'm not convinced that the field of 250s would be much bigger on saturday either. there was a lot of 250s in the endurance this weekend and at hallett, but only about half of them do the sprints... not sure why.
You'd certainly know better than I would, Jon.
I've seen a number of them in endurance and assumed they were being sprinted, too, but this year the mini sprints are usually over by the time I make it to the track, and it's been over a year now since I last raced in Clubman/ESS. I thought they were all over the place, but maybe my perspective is just out-of-date.
Oh well...it was just a thought. My race weekends wouldn't change either way, but I figured that if it might get more people on the track with minimal impact on the club's bottom line it wouldn't hurt to float the idea.
-A
You'd certainly know better than I would, Jon.
I've seen a number of them in endurance and assumed they were being sprinted, too, but this year the mini sprints are usually over by the time I make it to the track, and it's been over a year now since I last raced in Clubman/ESS. I thought they were all over the place, but maybe my perspective is just out-of-date.
Oh well...it was just a thought. My race weekends wouldn't change either way, but I figured that if it might get more people on the track with minimal impact on the club's bottom line it wouldn't hurt to float the idea.
-A
Who is in if I can move ESS to Saturday?
Who is in if I can move ESS to Saturday?
I was also under the impression that Saturday's schedule had NO more room.....that's why the Red River Challenge was ditched a few years back! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
I was also under the impression that Saturday's schedule had NO more room.....that's why the Red River Challenge was ditched a few years back! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
I'm definitely in, Walter. As I mentioned, I would start racing both the F4 and ESS classes starting with the next one if they were both on Saturday. As of right now, I don't plan to sprint until the 2nd Cresson race.
Thanks for the consideration.
-Jeff
I'm definitely in, Walter. As I mentioned, I would start racing both the F4 and ESS classes starting with the next one if they were both on Saturday. As of right now, I don't plan to sprint until the 2nd Cresson race.
Thanks for the consideration.
-Jeff
count me in for ESS on saturday if it got moved. especially if it falls under the mini sprint price structure... we are still "minis" afterall [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
count me in for ESS on saturday if it got moved. especially if it falls under the mini sprint price structure... we are still "minis" afterall [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
We would as soon as we can get our bikes sorted out. Selling old, buying new, etc.
We would as soon as we can get our bikes sorted out. Selling old, buying new, etc.
I'd hit it.
I'd hit it.