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ok guys, brace yourselves:
i contacted the bod directly and here's the answer.
the bod voted unanimously to use WERA's rule which states that amatuers are allowed to sprint 1000cc twins and 750cc fours. so no 1000 cc fours in sprint races for amateurs. but it looks like amateurs might be able to endurance race them.
they also suggested that amatuers from 2003 on big bikes can elect to become experts for 2004 so they wont have to switch.
at least you're not finding out at the last minute.
So a first or second or third year amateur CANNOT race a liter bike? Is there really THAT much of a difference between a 135HP GSXR750 and a 140HP R1? Though I don't entirely disagree with the decision, I would be interested in hearing the points made against allowing this. Anybody on the BOD care to comment on this?
So does that mean they'll be eliminating the Unlimited SS class all together? No need for it now.
With all due respect, that was a stupid decision. As Joe said, what is the difference between a modified Gixxer 750 and an R1. What about that nice looking GS1000 in HW Classic? Will that be allowed to run?
Maybe they (the BOD) anticipate the new crop of 1000cc inlines to to be head and shoulders above previous examples (I doubt it) but to let amateurs race 1000cc bikes in the endurance events but no the sprints makes no sense to me.
Additionally, the prospect of a rider voluntarily moving up to expert just so the rider can compete on the motorcycle they have makes no sense either. If it's that easy to become an expert, then lets just make everyone an expert and use multi-wave starts for all classes.
Not that this decision will affect a large number of current riders since I count only about 5 1000cc bikes that would be affected anyway. Once again, it begs the question of why the vote was even necessary? Was it to protect future 1000 cc riders from themselves?Quote:Originally posted by Mike Nellis:
So does that mean they'll be eliminating the Unlimited SS class all together? No need for it now.
With all due respect, that was a stupid decision. As Joe said, what is the difference between a modified Gixxer 750 and an R1. What about that nice looking GS1000 in HW Classic? Will that be allowed to run?
Maybe they (the BOD) anticipate the new crop of 1000cc inlines to to be head and shoulders above previous examples (I doubt it) but to let amateurs race 1000cc bikes in the endurance events but no the sprints makes no sense to me.
Additionally, the prospect of a rider voluntarily moving up to expert just so the rider can compete on the motorcycle they have makes no sense either. If it's that easy to become an expert, then lets just make everyone an expert and use multi-wave starts for all classes.
What is the rationale for the vote in the first place? Was it a vote just for the sake of compliance with WERA? If so, why is that important or necessary that an independent body like CMRA follow WERA?
Our team this year raced a 1000. We had no issues at all and stayed off the ground all year. Does this mean that we as novices can't handle the same bike in a sprint? We are okay to play around all other classes and skill levels for hours at a time but not in a sprint. Strange rule for sure.
Ok, so I just finished all of my prov nov stuff on my 2000 R1 and now have to sell my race bike or move up to expert? This is not my street bike in race glass this is my RACEBIKE, so now what?
BD
Guess what? You get to race with the experts next year if you want to race the R1. The other option is to find some friend and Endurance race it where you'll be safe (sarcasim intentional). You know what else? This is just a guess on my part but if you want to race the R1, now you get to petition CMRA to bump you to the expert class and justify why your skill and experience justifies that bump.Quote:Originally posted by Brian Fox #727:
Ok, so I just finished all of my prov nov stuff on my 2000 R1 and now have to sell my race bike or move up to expert? This is not my street bike in race glass this is my RACEBIKE, so now what?
BD
Make sure you get at least one race in this year on the R1 because then, based on Paige's conversation with one or more of the BOD's, all you'll have to do is tell them you're on a 1000cc bike and they'll let you race with the experts.
I'm getting a little carried away on purpose here to make my point.......it doesn't make sense.
Are you going to be a novice next year?Quote:Originally posted by Mike Nellis:
[QUOTE]I'm getting a little carried away....
:rolleyes:
Only if they'll have me. I don't know if I can handle running with you big dogs yet. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] Probably not though.Quote:Originally posted by Ty Stranger-Thorsen:
Are you going to be a novice next year?Quote:Originally posted by Mike Nellis:
[QUOTE]I'm getting a little carried away....
:rolleyes:
I don't know why, but the idea of limiting the size of bike a ride can compete on just tweaks my nose the wrong way. I hear it all the time when a bunch of street riders get together and say things to a potentialy new or inexperienced rider about how they have no business on that big bore bike. I say, stat the pro's/con's and merits of the different size bike and, unless there is a proven safety risk, let the rider make their choice.
Again, based on the number of 1000cc in-line fours competing in amateurs this year, most have chosen wisely but for those that ride 1000cc they're have the time of their lives probably.
anyone notice speedvision doesn't play much motorcycle racing anymore???
Myself and a freind of mine who just took his riders school and has an R1 will both be screwed, what a way to introduce him to the wonderful world of CMRA. He is thrilled, he paid to race and now he cannot, I just finished all of my requirements to get my license and now have to be an expert or spend anothe $5-6k on a new bike and try to sell mine. I did finish 5th overall in my class in the GT races, but only cause I showed up and ran most of them.
Someone wanna trade me my R1 for an R6? Guess I dont have a choice in my own future, I'm 30 years old and someone is going to dictate what I am able to ride, lovely.
BD
Move up Nellis, move up. Yeah that's the ticket move up Nellis. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] If you don't move up I look forward to chasing you around next year, but with a twist. I'll try to stay a bit closer. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
There may be something to the decision, otherwise it might not have been unanimous. We don't know what kind of deal the CMRA and WERA have aworked out (if they did). I agree though that it is kind of a raw deal for the guys with big bikes.
twg
Amatuer riders can't enter expert races. If they implement the "no amatuers on anything larger than a 750" rule, you will have to ride something other than your 1000. You only move up to expert after proving yourself in the amatuer classes for a season or three and finishing consistently in the top % of your class.
Jess
I don't agree with limiting novices to 750cc or less. Most first year people are riding bikes that were their street bikes to start with. They don't just wake up one morning and say "I'm going to go race, lets go buy a race bike". I'm currently racing an RC51, first year racing, and the reason I'm using that bike is because that is what I had. I couldn't afford to go out and buy another bike to go race. I know some people will say it is false economy thinking that I saved money by racing a 01 RC51, but most of my mods were already done. I think the same is true with most of the other individuals racing big bore bikes. By limiting size there will be people who will not come and race, because there is no class for them to race with what they currently own. So is it better to introduce them to the sport with the 1000cc inline four or tell them to go away until you can get a smaller bike to race. I know if it were me I would not have raced. And anyways we all know size does not matter. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
Actually, virtually everyone I know did exactly that. Can't think of anybody I know personally who used their street bike as their first race bike.Quote:Originally posted by Kevin Eggert:
...Most first year people are riding bikes that were their street bikes to start with. They don't just wake up one morning and say "I'm going to go race, lets go buy a race bike"...
Does a classic bike fall under this limit? I've got a 94 CBR 900 that I was planning on taking out next year.
sorry rich, my first race bike is my one off the street. cant afford to buy one just for racing. on the subject here is my two cents. i have no need for a 1000, cept an rc-51, and am quite happy with a 750 or 600. ok, the only track that wouldnt intimidate me is tws on a big bike like that. i have nothing to say to someone who wants to race one cept good luck. its a bummer they cant race if they already have one. but common sense says that is just too big to start with. but if i had any of that i wouldnt be racing i guess.
Yeah, I started on my street bike, a nearly new 1975 RD350.... :rolleyes:
Let me start by saying, Most of the people that are fine with novices on 1000cc bikes are new to the sport of roadracing. Yes it sounds great to say, "I roadrace a 160 horse power 1000 cc bike". But you will be wasting alot of time and money on a big bike.
#1 wheel spin... burnning up that rear tire.
#2 Highside factor... you will.
#3 only 2 or 3 classes you can ride in.
The list goes on. I would bet money, anyone can learn more with a YSR and a empty parking lot in a couple hours, than sprinting a 1000 all year. Hard to go out and slid both tires holding your bike up with your knee on a 1000. You can learn that in about 10 minutes with a YSR.
My best example... I had a friend racing a Honda CBR600 F2. He went out and and got a New 1996 GSXR750. I told him to keep racing the F2, Keep the GSXR on the street. But did he listen??? He called me Monday after racing at Hallett to tell me how wrong I was and how he was 2 seconds faster at Hallett. Well the next Monday he called me because that weekend they went to Oakhill to practice and he was 1.5 seconds slower. He couldn't figure that out. I told him he was a Dragracer. Oakhill doesn't have the straights for a big bike to run... You have to ride.
Get a 600, enter all the classes you can on Sunday, about 7 I think. Use your tires for 3 or 4 weekends. If you can go fast on 4 weekend tires. Think how fast you can go on new ones. Take offs are cheep and fun! I have won about $800 dollars with $200 dollars worth of take offs.
Darnell Dorsey CMRA Expert #74
Racing since 1988 (Am I really that old???)
Oh Mark, your full of it, I watched Two Wheeled Tuesday(Greg's Garage) on Wednesday last week. I got to see the whole 1/2hr. What more do you want from Speed? You act like they don't schedule racing anymore, but to tell you the truth, the bikes are really starting to look funny now, they seem alot wider now, and gone to 4 tires, I guess for stability purposes when racing those big ovals........Quote:Originally posted by Mark Novak:
anyone notice speedvision doesn't play much motorcycle racing anymore???
Yeah listen to Darnell he knows all
Darnell was the first one I saw ever do a stand up wheelie down the back straight at Hallett on the cool down lap---- that must have been about 1992
I started in 85 on a brand new 600 NINJA
Raced a GSXR750--GSXR1100 since and I can go faster on my F2 now than I could ever on the ol man killer 1100
Yes Darnell-- we are that old
HAZE
Yeah,
I think I saw old Darnell do some wheelies at OHR during the last round (GTO) down the front straight as well.....If he's got a primer colored GSXR and white leathers w/ blue patches one of those wheelies almost collected us both.......nice.
Jesse Seitz #830 AM
If I had my way, all prov novs would start on small bikes (less than 600cc). My father spent his professional life in the motorcycle industry, and his personal life on motorcycles; he told me to start racing on small bikes. The philosphy was: if you ride until you have a small bike by the throat, and you can't go any faster (lap time) because the bike won't let you, then it's time for a bigger bike. Any moron can go fast in a straight line; roadracing is all about corner speed. When you have corners mastered, then it will be time to worship the god of throttle control. Until that happens, you're just deluding yourself.
I wonder if this is not an insurance type issue with regard to racing orginazations. If that is the case, well...it's a done deal.
If that is not the case, one must not assume that every Prov. Am. is on his/her first motorcycle. That just isn't fair and it just isn't the truth. I've been passed by more than one with a yellow shirt on. I may be slow, but I'm not that slow. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
Sorry Jesse!!! was told after the race that wheelies are a no no. And had I known you where there I would have let you pass and go on. Sorry for holding you up. But Honestly, be glad I wasn't doing my impression of Larry Lockleer. I would have been doing them every lap. But now seems that is a no no because someone didn't know when to say when. He should have been stopped with his pitbike antics a long time ago.
Darnell
Old fat guy....But did I pass you, or were you passing me???
And did you notice that I was ride one of those slow, no fun 600.
Missed the riders meeting did ya?Quote:Originally posted by Darnell Dorsey:
Sorry Jesse!!! was told after the race that wheelies are a no no. And had I known you where there I would have let you pass and go on.
I had to trade in my cbr 900 when I decided to race. I ended up with a TL1000 and rode it for a few years. Its just a rule you have to live with, like I did. I have to admit I haven't read the rule book in a while so I have to ask did this rule ever change or did some novice riders just fail to read it (at least once)? I hope you do ride the big bikes in the expert classes. I had to move up after my first year of racing the TL and I think everyone should experience Howard, Ball, Foster, Haner, Spies, and company coming by you so fast your lap times drop because of the draft they create while blowing by you. It's FUN.
I rember being really ticked off about having to get another bike but it was worth it. I say go chase Eric Fault around before you give up on smaller cc bikes.
yeah, he has sucked some paint off of my bike over the last couple of years.Quote:Originally posted by Lane Smith:
I say go chase Eric Fault around before you give up on smaller cc bikes.
i can remember the death grip i had on the bars of KERMIT when eric falt and bradley champion would come by.
it was definitely a humbling experience...
Well to be honest... (and I trust you with this secret)....I did miss the riders meeting. Hard to hear from the back forty. That is why I didn't make the starting grid for either race.
But it made me feel fast to pass all those novices.
Forgot to mention I was on a set of 3 weekend tires I was talking about earlier, plus they had about 2000 street miles on them.
Can't wait to lose that 50 extra pounds I've been hauling around...
You gettin' all this Jesse?
Youth and talent are no match.....
For age and treachery....
Darnell
Can't wait to get my new to me 1000 on the track!!!
Darnell, normally I don't get sucked into BBS BS. But....
Let me see if I've got it all. You've raced since 1988. You still trust your life to scrub tires. You will do this on a 1000 next year. You still have not figured out that the squid tricks belong on the street where the proper fines can be levied.
Did I miss anything?
Jesse Seitz #830 AM
John,old guys on small bikes going fast is what keeps the planets alligned. On a personal note
whenever kermit allowed its rider to actually
make it to the track surface it was poetry in motion. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]
tissue please... i think i have a frog (punny) in my throat... [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]Quote:Originally posted by Scott Levine:
John,old guys on small bikes going fast is what keeps the planets alligned. On a personal note
whenever kermit allowed its rider to actually
make it to the track surface it was poetry in motion. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]
it was not just getting on the track with KERMIT, it was making a full 8 lap race (or 7 lap race if falt was on his superbike!!).
what a rod... [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
Marvin, don't put it out to pasture just yet. We are reconsidering the rule, and should have at least a grace period of a year.
While we still firmly believe in it, and we felt that 4 months would be enough advance notice, we realize that there are riders in situations like you.
Well Jesse. You are correct. I have been racing since 1988. Yes, I trust my old "scub tires" as you put it. I prefer to call them "worn out" or "junk". I only ask of them what I think they can handle.
Let me sum up my GTO race for you. First of all it was my 3rd race of the day. The first I teamed with my 11 year old son on his YSR in the mini endurance. So imagine a 250 pound, 36 year old on a YSR.... Go ahead and laugh...My friends did.
Next I rode in the GTU race. Discovered a little problem with my bike cutting out in the dip in turn 1b, all this new fangled fuel injected stuff. Then brake fade half way through the race. Oh, and lunch was trying to come back up.
In the GTO race started from pit road just like in the GTU. Felt better, but still had the problem with bike cutting out. Still had a problem with brake fade. I don't want to freak you out, so I won't tell you about what my tires looked like at this point. Still got around you.... and If you look at my times, I don't think you will be able to tell when I had to "adjust" for brake fade.
Enough of that... Jesse I'm just havin' fun with you... Anyone who knows me, knows I'm messin' around.
Haze and I have started 8 hour races with a GSXR 1100 with a stack of trashed tires. You learn to ride on junk (nothing personal Haze),you can ride on anything. That is "OLD SCHOOL". You haven't raced unless you've done it with cords showen'.
Jesse I'm looking forward to meeting you face to face...If you promise not to take a swing at me. Sorry If I got close to you doing my "squid riding". But when done correctly, is a beautiful thing. I would never do anything to get anyone hurt. Been racing this long and have fallen off 7 times. With 6 Championships, so I'm no rookie. Or spring chicken.
And so you know, I'll probibly buck up for new tires on the 1000, unless you want to watch the show.
Not going to MSR, new bike is not ready yet.
Be good. Go fast!
Darnell
But remember... youth and talent are no match...
Wouldn't that be, "...Poetry in slow motion..."?
Love 'ya Johnny...you gotta try the EXFH...fire from the exhaust, blue smoke and chunks of rubber flying off the rear tire, oil spraying from every seam in the engine...plastic held together with some of every type of adhesive and fastener known to raceman....AND FRUSTRATED SV650s filling the rear-view mirrors!
Hope I've still got it and it hasn't vibrated off too many essential parts next time you make it out to a track. Bring your gear and some splints and bandages and take her for a few laps!
Chuck
"hope to get in more laps next race"
I think this is a VERY good idea.Quote:should have at least a grace period of a year.
I'll believe that when I see it on my shops dyno...at the rear tire for sure.Quote:Originally posted by Marvin Biano:
(04 R1 claims 172hp!)
So let's see if I have this in order....150HP Suzuki 750 compared to a stock 130HP Yamaha R1. Given enough money I suppose one could get 150+HP out of a 1000cc twin as well. All this and the fact that the same rider that can't ride the bike in sprints but, can ride it all day in an endurance race. It was mentioned (perhaps not by the BOD) that, an amateur, could upgrade to expert so he can use his 1000cc machine in sprints. What's the point in having the limits in the first place? [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]
I'm not for smaller displacement limits for amateur riders either. I'd like to see an evaluation process for those riders that wish to "run what the already own". Blanket rules that don't take into consideration a riders riding experience or skill level just don't seem fair to me.
I did not post this to be argumentative, but I really want to understand the underlying purpose of this skewed logic...errr...uhhhh reasoning/decision. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
I would like to hear someone defend these mode of thought. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
Ok, evrybody has weighed in on this one so here's my .02!
Everyone knows you can't learn to be quick as safely and maybe not even as well on an expert level bike. Doesn't matter if it is a built 600 or 750 or a stock (or built) R1. Corner speed is best learned, IMHO, on making a slow engine/bike go fast.
With that said I still don't think there should be a limit on amatuers. After all this is America, the land of excess. And who's to say that the amatuer may only have access to that kind of excess. Still should require some kind of official qualification from Sam or another CMRA official that can judge the Am's ability and judgment! Sign em up and send them out with Heavy weight AM if there are not a number of them. Score em seperate. Sit back, enjoy the show, and hope no one is hurt. (same as every other class!) Smiley
Yep, you must have a non expert set up bike in order to go fast. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]Quote:Originally posted by CHRIS SMILEY:
Ok, evrybody has weighed in on this one so here's my .02!
Everyone knows you can't learn to be quick as safely and maybe not even as well on an expert level bike
I meant expert level power Eugene. Not expertly set up. You know newbies are not gonna get 100% of the performance of a completely stock motorcycle. Set up is a completely different story. It is highly advisable to get the best set up bike to learn on you can (hence my concession to AM's on big bikes). You don't want to learn how to ride on a bike that you have to compensate for it's set up or one that is dangerous.
Incidentally, I have seen Expert bikes "set up" to the point that they were as slow as the amatuers! Smiley
Man, both syllables of my name. I'm in trouble now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]Quote:Originally posted by CHRIS SMILEY:
I meant expert level power Eugene. Not expertly set up. You know newbies are not gonna get 100% of the performance of a completely stock motorcycle. Set up is a completely different story. It is highly advisable to get the best set up bike to learn on you can (hence my concession to AM's on big bikes). You don't want to learn how to ride on a bike that you have to compensate for it's set up or one that is dangerous.
Incidentally, I have seen Expert bikes "set up" to the point that they were as slow as the amatuers! Smiley
All,
I am a new member to CMRA this year..so my opinion is probably going to be worth beans...however...
I used my Street Gixxer 1k (lights taped off and horn still connected) the first race after my rider school at TWS back in Mar. Sad to say if i would have known the track a bit better i would have finished 5th place...but an overshoot and bad line on turn 3 on the last lap sent me off track...when i got back on i was in 10th place. Not bad for a FNG on a new track...You are assuming that all new riders have no clue on what they are doing...these days there are so many track days that people coming in have already had a taste of their machines on a track and there abilities.
Where is the data that supports this decision...The data should be for both expert and amateur...examples
1. # of Crashes over the past two years
2. How many were first year AM vs. 2+ year AM/EX
2. How many were on 600, 750 and +1000's
3. How many injuries were in each class
4. Severity of crash to CC engine.
5. Revenue lost to the CMRA by eliminating 1k
Data will be pointing to the direction that we should all be riding YSR's. At least set a grandfather clause...if you come in as a member in 2004..you will not be able to race a 1000..but for those of us who already have one..and have "already" raced them...and have not "CRASHED"...should be able to continue to race them if we got them. If a person did come in 2003 and did not race a 1000 at all...then they most likey do not have one to race.
This is a case where i would have to say...Size does not matter...let the data speak for the decision? Manage by FACT..not on what some other club is doing? Is the CMRA ready to loose alot of its members that already have 1k bikes and can not afford to by a smaller size bikes..then i guess the CMRA is ready to take some kind of entry impact. I have (along with others) spent alot of money this year getting my bikes ready to race...i am sure that myself and others who have 1k bikes would pretty much be at a major loss due to this decision.
Lets vote on this as a club...BOD is there representing the clubs members and voted in by the club members..
Present the "data" that supports this...then let us vote based on the true results of that data.
Respectfully,
Daniel Caldwell
AM#156
The ability of an amature rider to operate a motorcycle is not the issue. My 4 year old daughter knows how to operate a motorcycle. It's a question of experience and maturity. I have seen people that thought they where fast street riders humbled by the racing experience. The only data that I need is 12 plus years of experience. To me it is a question of saftey and saftey is my job!!!
I agree with Walter.
By the way, I always like to compare anyones times to Tyler McDonald's times on his 85cc powered GP125. It is most humbling.
While the BoD feels very strongly about the rule, and we feel it is in the best interest of the rider, we have decided to back off this requirement for 2004.
Be aware though, you will not be allowed to compete in any WERA events if you do wish to race with them at any of their tracks.
They have around 3000 licensed members and have had this rule for a numebr of years.
I agree with Bryan and Walter and I'll take this a little further, the CMRA did not allow novice/amateur riders to run 1000cc bikes (that also included 1000cc twins) for years, it's only since we became affiliated with CCS. Amateurs have only been running 1000cc bikes for the last 2 years; I don't think any amateurs rode one for the first year and a half of CCC affiliation.
There's a reason insurance companies charge more for 1000cc sport bikes.
There's a reason World Champion Road Racers started on smaller bikes.
I'd like to add my opinion at this juncture only for the few that DO have many years experience riding motorcycles.
I am 35, started riding at 11 and have had many bikes over the years. I may not have been racing them with a official club like WERA or CMRA. I have ridden with other licensed racers on the street over the years.
The issue is not "safety" and should not because another sanctioning body has this as a rule. I have been out there as an amateur first year rider at five events this year. I don't come away from this season as a whole thinking that all the guys I raced with shouldn't have been on 1000cc bikes for my safety. I don't race one but I do think that demonstrating proper riding technique and control is of utmost concern. I think that if a "first year" rider comes into the club say thru LSTD and they deem him competent in control and technique then so be it. No matter what bike he plans on riding.
I'll say this tho, most of the club members are gonna tell him that he would probably go faster if he started on a 600 or something but let him choose.
Okay, if we are gonna do this 1000 cc amateur thing then "show me" on paper that this last year a significant number of amateurs on 1000 cc bikes created a safety concern because I don't remember this being a cause for concern. If not, then I see no need for the rule. If the rule is law then grandfather it in for the 2005 season so that there are no members who get caught out for 2004.
Thanks for listening,
Darick
(Gixxer/CBR/Kawi 1k for 2004 campaign)
It's common sense, not just safety
Your first car wasn't a 500HP monster.(I Hope not) In many other countries they use a tiered licensing system. You can't just go to the dealer and plop down cash, you have to ride a small displacement bike first.
Yes, it would be very easy to build or buy a heavily tuned Duc, GP250, or 750 class machine that would be much harder to ride than a 1000.
The point is we had this rule before, and it worked fine. One of the largest racing organzations has this rule and it works fine. The other organiation does not have this rule, and it apparently works fine also.
I am not coming down hard on the safety factor, it's just common sense. I don't know why so many of you have bike envy and can't handle riding something smaller. The fastest riders in the world did not start on 1000cc machines.
I believe every single one of our track records are on 750 or smaller machines.
Regardless, as mentioned before we nixed the idea. We can't take away something that we gave to you guys for a couple of years.
Darick,Quote:Originally posted by darick pash:
I'd like to add my opinion at this juncture only for the few that DO have many years experience riding motorcycles.
I am 35, started riding at 11 and have had many bikes over the years. I may not have been racing them with a official club like WERA or CMRA. I have ridden with other licensed racers on the street over the years.
The issue is not "safety" and should not because another sanctioning body has this as a rule.
I'll say this tho, most of the club members are gonna tell him that he would probably go faster if he started on a 600 or something but let him choose.
Okay, if we are gonna do this 1000 cc amateur thing then "show me" on paper that this last year a significant number of amateurs on 1000 cc bikes created a safety concern because I don't remember this being a cause for concern.Thanks for listening,
Darick
(Gixxer/CBR/Kawi 1k for 2004 campaign)
Nice Points, especially the one about maybe "grandfathering" the rule to ensure that no one get's "left out".
About novices and 1000's. I have to say for me that every now and then my 1000 tries real hard to bite me on the #ss. I don't believe it is in the best interest of this or any organization having novice/amateur riders on liter bikes.
Several of the folks that have voiced their ideas (to allow amateurs/novices on 1000's) on this subject have crashed fairly hard on bikes that are of larger displacement. Jumping up to 142bhp + is not so bad on a track day. When you are in a pack of riders, and the heat of the race is on, common sense and throttle control go out the window.
One of the fastest riders (and my customer) in the MRA (Who holds several track records) just had his first season on a 1000. He had crashed a few times this year, and couldn't figure out what was going on with the motorcycle. Shane Stoyko and I basically had to tell the guy he didn't know how to ride properly. To me this was amazing. I mean the guy holds expert class records, but could not understand the concept of rolling on the throttle. Luckily, he had been racing for 10 years and quickly adapted (as well as kept himself out of trouble).
I do not believe it is safe (nor fair to the rider) that we do not impose good judgement within a sport that can easily kill or paralyze you especially when have newer riders.
You may think this is arrogant, but I will give an example of the fact that guys like myself have seen this way too many times.
1999 - Team Blockworks. We had one fast young guy on this team that was owned by Eric Kelcher. At the beginning of the season, I had a long talk with Tony and Eric and said the first time this young guy gets on this bike for the start of a race, he is going to crash and hurt himself. They listened. Unfortunately, the kid beat us down at TWS and we let him start. He was paralyzed that day.
There are several other situations I can cover when I see you (or anyone else for that matter) at the track. Some are funny and some are depressing.
My opinion is keep the Amateurs/Novices on 750cc (in-line 4) and below.
This year I raced a GSXR 600 for a reason. It has been a couple years since I have raced hard, so I wanted to get back into it on a small bike, to catch up on my braking and corner speed. I had planned to race it one more year, then get a bigger bike. Well I found a deal to good to pass up. So now I will be riding a GSXR 1000 next year. I am excited. But at the same time I hope to be as fast on the 1000. I've been on bikes with over 175 hp. But only enduraced for one race. Most tracks I will be faster, But at Oak Hill I'm not sure.
If you want to sound cool, say you ride a 1000. If you want to be cool, ride a 600 and smoke the 1000s.
The last race at Oak Hill I caught and passed Marcus Mcbain. But I feel I had the advantage riding a 600. Next year He will have the advantage because of time in the set on a 1000.
In 1996 I watched my teammate, Danny Dominguez riding a GSXR 750 race against a kid on a 125 at Hallett. Danny would pass him on the straights, then this punk would come flying past his going into the corners(sliding both tires). Danny did beat him to the line. But this kid was riding the wheels off that 125. I can and do brag about my teammate... and the day he beat Nicky Hayden. Maybe you have seen him on TV?
One more thing... as was said...compare your lap times to Tyler McDonald's, then compare the bikes.
:D Hey!!! That was a borrowed 750, had I had my 1000... [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]Quote:Originally posted by Darnell Dorsey:
The last race at Oak Hill I caught and passed Marcus Mcbain. But I feel I had the advantage riding a 600. Next year He will have the advantage because of time in the set on a 1000.