2013 Ninja 300?

We have threads on this in the main board and in the tech questions, but since it appears like the 2013 Ninja will be a 300 and not a 250 I think that this discussion really belongs here.

In the main thread Roger thinks, and I agree, that we need probably need some guidance from Walter and/or the BOD on this so that people can do some planning for next season. Because I'm not really excited about running out and buying an 2013 300 right now to stay competitive in mini endurance, I'm fine if we decide that in 2013 any new 300 is a clubman bike (and not F4). [img]<>/laugh.gif[/img] But I'm sure that some people will disagree, so let's get the question out there. If we do let 300s into F4, how can you do that without turning off the many club members who have significant investments in the 250, and might not want to upgrade right away?

Obviously we don't have the performance numbers yet, but I'm guessing that a 300 with FI and a Power Commander will go faster than the old 250s, so this is probably also the time to have the conversation about whether such a bike is really F4, and can safely run with the other minis.

Well I guess I can add Kawasaki to the list of people and things that give me a headache.

My first thought is to keep the 300 (287cc) in a production configuration (OEM exhaust and no engine management mods) for ESS and F4.

I think they are keeping the 250 also. Possibly a 400, too.

The big release announcement is tomorrow, 9/12. Lets see what we actually get here in the US. The 250 has had FI in other countries for years and we haven't gotten it here.

If we do actually get a 300 (and or 400) I would also like to know as soon as possible if and how it will fit in the mix.

I guess they wanted make sure the 250 didn't get left behind as well! I'm sure you all saw this already.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bike...nja-250r-leak/

Originally Posted By: Scott Finning

I guess they wanted make sure the 250 didn't get left behind as well! I'm sure you all saw this already.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bike...nja-250r-leak/

That is Indonesia (and a month old). The 300 was announced in Europe. A couple articles have cited EPA documents showing no 250 in the US this and the release of a 300 & a 400. That isn't 100% either. They have models in other countries that are never seen in the US.

Until the official Kawasaki announcement, everything is pretty much speculation. The release party is Thursday (not Wednesday).

id definitely like to see a 400 with decent suspenders. and imo the 300 should stay out of mini racing.

All I know is I'm confused now.... I guess I'll put the 250 project bike I started for next year on hold until I see what the new rule book says.

Originally Posted By: Walter Walker

Well I guess I can add Kawasaki to the list of people and things that give me a headache.

My first thought is to keep the 300 (287cc) in a production configuration (OEM exhaust and no engine management mods) for ESS and F4.

IMO this will drive two things which I do not agree with:
1. Forcing 250 teams to spend money to remain competitive in the "mini" class.
2. Raising the overall speed of the "mini" classes.
I just cant get behind anything that makes near 400 lb "minis" faster.

I know each candidate has their own platform post but I would like to know where they stand on this issue. I love you Walter but I am hoping we can get a board override on what you want to do here. In my opinion, those bikes do not belong on our mini grids.

We'll see.....

Originally Posted By: Walter Walker

We'll see.....

I hear you and I really hope you dont take me as disrespecting you here. You know that is not the case. I just dont agree. We have disagreed before. [img]<>/grin.gif[/img]

You know I love you big old Teddy Bear.

No not at all Chris. We share the same feelings on this one. I don't want to introduce an even faster large chassis bike into the Mini groups either. That's why I was thinking of not allowing any mods for the 300. Honestly it may be a moot point though with the steady decline of the F5-7 machines.

We agree it's not a mini. That being said, I will race anyone on any bike. Just give us two stroke guys a fighting chance.

i think if we are going to allow a 300 diesel, perhaps we should allow 125cc based 2-S MX motors...

*goes back out to the garage and stares at the empty Ape RS125 chassis* Hmm, what to do, what to do......

hey, i had planned on building a monster XR100 based F5 bike for next year, but, if we can get some real parity for the 2-S, i would much rather do that...

I would be opposed to the New 300 in the F4 or ESS simply because of the same reasons I was opposed to the RS chassis bikes being allowed into the ESS class. As Eric mentioned, horsepower claims from Kawasaki are 39. In stock form, that beats the modified horsepower claims of some of the 250's being at 32-35. Taking into consideration that the 300 will shed some pounds with race trim only(lights, brackets, pegs, stock skins, etc.), does the power to weight ratio thereafter concern anyone for the equality idea in the ESS class? In F4, it is simply outside of the rules. A restructuring of the class rules would need to be in order to allow the bike, and I really don't think the idea of that would be advantageous to anyone from a cost standpoint.
As far as the classes being a Novice/Expert split, I am not sure that would increase entries, but it would be interesting to test it in a trial race. Maybe at round one next season, run the schedule as it was this year, but add in one race that would have no adverse effect on the season points, run the classes at the same time but score them seperately.

Just an idea, from a guy with no real information to base this idea on:

Since the Ninja 250, EX250, VTR250, and Blast already aren't really Formula 4 bikes (they're larger than class-legal bikes that get an exception and must follow SuperStock rules)......couldn't all these bikes be moved into a new F3 class? F3 class would be made up of all the above-mentioned bikes running Formula rules, and the 300cc Ninja running SuperStock rules, or completely stock exhaust and engine management per Walter's idea.

Would give the F4 guys their class back, Ninja-free. The only big worry would be F4 falling in entries like F5-F7 have, but hopefully it would revive some of these guys who seem to complain that they have bikes they could be building for F4, but they don't because the Ninjas have taken over.

But, I guess that F3 class would then be even faster, and may be too quick for the mini endurance. So maybe just keep the new bikes in clubman. Hell, I don't know.

I'm very interested in the new ninja. Personally I have no opinion on its mini class legality. I'd like to see it allowed in clubman with formula rules. It could be a great platform for a builders bike.

But we will have to wait and see it on track and in person, to really know what the possibilities are. It's all Internet hype right now.

If the out of the crate numbers are true the 300 will not be allowed in F4 or Mini Endurance.

I vote we get a list of the things/people that give Walter a headache and they each bring two advil and a water to Walter at the next round [img]<>/smile.gif[/img]

Are you trying to kill Walter with a vote?

Votes give me a headache!

E Superstock....
E Superbike........

Thats a headache!!! :-)

4 hours 20 minutes we get the details!

http://ninja300.kawasaki.com/ should have details any minute now. Supposedly.

www.ninja300.com gives me a headache!

Originally Posted By: Walter Walker

www.ninja300.com gives me a headache!

You owe me a coffee-free monitor. [img]<>/laugh.gif[/img]

That was funny.

The original annoucement was incorrect.

http://ninja300.kawasaki.com/Specs

Sorry Walter [img]<>/frown.gif[/img]

Here is the info on the new 636.
http://ninja6r.kawasaki.com/details

No 400 in the US.
Does that help the headache?

easy fix.

E Superstock - As is.
E Superbike - New ninja 300 - SS rules, 250 twins with superbike rules, and 300 singles with superbike rules. 200CC water cooled GP frames- forumula rules. 125cc water cooled two stoke motards [img]<>/smile.gif[/img]

Jesse you give me a headache!!

make me your assistant.

How can this give Walter a headache?

The very last things on that page are the words "48 months good times"

What more do you need?

I thought Pinapples gave you a headache.

Haha that they do Ryan.

Anything over a half bottle of Maker's Mark gives me a headache. Doesn't last long though.

[img]<>/grin.gif[/img]

Originally Posted By: Mitch Williams

Anything over a half bottle of Maker's Mark gives me a headache. Doesn't last long though.

[censored].


That 'censored' word started with a 'p'.

Originally Posted By: Wil Kitchens

[censored].


That 'censored' word started with a 'p'.

Talk to me when you're my age. I'm going to Pike's Peak next year. I'll do my best to hang with ya.

Originally Posted By: Mitch Williams

Originally Posted By: Wil Kitchens

[censored].


That 'censored' word started with a 'p'.

Talk to me when you're my age. I'm going to Pike's Peak next year. I'll do my best to hang with ya.

Never gonna happen, Mitch. You'll always be 40yrs older than Wil. It's the way birthdays and time and stuff work.

Originally Posted By: Josh Henke

Never gonna happen, Mitch. You'll always be 40yrs older than Wil. It's the way birthdays and time and stuff work.

Ouch! I'm only 30 years older but 40 years meaner.

Originally Posted By: Mitch Williams

Originally Posted By: Wil Kitchens

[censored].


That 'censored' word started with a 'p'.

Talk to me when you're my age. I'm going to Pike's Peak next year. I'll do my best to hang with ya.

I won't be racing next year, so while I'm there I'll be able to spend my time doing 'productive' things...


...like destroying extra brain cells. w00t!

Serious post:

can we get in touch with kawasaki and try to get kawasaki money for E superstock, or Ninja cup or something like that? cash purse for a combined race featuring SB ninja 250's, and SS Ninja 300's. CMRA's very own development series. Keep Jr. motard and F4/F5. we dont need any other mini classes right now.

Originally Posted By: Jesse Davis

Serious post:

can we get in touch with kawasaki and try to get kawasaki money for E superstock, or Ninja cup or something like that? cash purse for a combined race featuring SB ninja 250's, and SS Ninja 300's. CMRA's very own development series. Keep Jr. motard and F4/F5. we dont need any other mini classes right now.

And I was going to vote for you. [img]<>/grin.gif[/img] Having F6 and F7 take nothing away from the club and elminating them now would be a bad move IMO. It would be the final nail in the coffin of those classes.

If we are going to keep gender based classes (rolls eyes) and classes for bikes that nobody makes (B) then we can keep these two and be just fine.

Dude, one or two entries in those classes on average.....they're already dead. F6 and F7 take up time in an already packed schedule. open the rules up in F4 and 5 a little bit. We need to focus on the classes that the racers are focusing on and embrace them.

the girl class seems to be a big hit so far, despite my initial skepticism. but i agree with you on the classes for bikes that no one makes. I dont understand the point really. Im torn between wanting to change everything, and and just leaving it all the fudge alone. time will tell i reckon. there is no perfect formula.

if we get rid of F7, Otto is going to pull a razor out of his shoe...

that is not a joke...

he will...

he has issues...

last year i proposed age and displacement structure for the mini classes...little league baseball style...

Otto is tearing up the kart tracks right now... already beyond Jr. Motard and he just turned 7... it is a little disappointing he has to go backwards to race with the CMRA, but, i guess that is the gig...

aaaand he cant ride a KX65 motard because....?

primarily, because i dont have one... and he can do one season on the YXR to do the deed before he rolls into a RS65... that seems a little more appropriate to me anyway...

the big thing is that i do not want him out there with the axe murderes on the 250 just yet... the Solo 30 is a perfect place for him to learn the tracks and how to race with acceptable levels of risk...