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You mean I still have a chance to go MotoGP pro? It's like Christmas and my birthday and the Fourth of July all in one!
I remember hearing that dorna was going to take over AMA pro racing. I would like to see more Americans in WSBK and motogp. I don't know if I have the time and energy to follow another racing series.
i disagree with the statement about herrin, he is on a brand new team with no prior data or anything. I doubt anyone including the team owner and josh expected to place well this year.
There have been rumblings of something going on lately... very encouraging. I would like to hear opinions: Why exactly is America not very competitive compared to Europe? I know there are fierce racers coming out of this country... are they getting out due to $$? The psychological stigma against motorcycles here plays a part I am sure. If only gas was $15 a gallon, scooters/bikes would be everywhere and many would change their mindset. This is a culture that needs to be nurtured.
I agree... case in point Alex Lowes isn't doing great either so they need time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Adams11
Why does Spain sweep the podium quite often? In fact last year in motogp Spanish riders swept the podium in almost every race. Do we need moto2 and 3 like series to help us make more competitive riders? I don't know but I think the cmra is a good starting point we just need to beef up our pro level.
I posted this article link yesterday...
"Is Road Racing in Dead in the U.S."
The article Jim linked has this little tidbit...
"The problem is American fans are fairly provincial and there is a very real prospect that there will be no Americans in MotoGP next season."
I am in no way knowledgeable of the intricate details on the demise of American road racing or of Dorna's possible entry in U.S. road racing but I will say this.. unless something is done soon by those who have the capability to turn the ship around as to American road racing's availability to the common fan we will only see the ever dwindling fan base erode even further..which will kill the AMA and road racing in general... I guess so that opens the door for other concerns to fill the void...
To answer that question... how many of them grew up in Moto3 and moto2? Looking @ this years crop, out of 33 riders in moto 3, 7 Italian, 6 Spanish... a bunch of countries with 1 or 2 riders... (zero Americans) , Moto 2 is packed with Spaniards, 7 in GP... something they are doing over there? or just getting into the GP series as early as possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by David Adams11
"I don't know but I think the cmra is a good starting point we just need to beef up our pro level."
David I agree.. We do already have a good system of clubs... but from my perspective they are, as was quoted above, "provincial.. I think the clubs are fragmented and there is not a lot inter-club series action. Club level national championships don't seem very inclusive.. I know WERA and other have a form of that but so many other clubs are not part of that. I am not 100% up on all the action in that arena .. just a outsider looking in. So if I'm wrong tell me how.
This years Nat'l Endurance series is a big step in the right direction but it's going to take a lot more to get the sponsors and media exposure needed to really make the farm system better... this is going to take all parties concerned...
Dirt Trackers-Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela McWilliams
Wayne Rainey
Bubba Shobert
Freddie Spencer
Eddie Lawson
King Kenny
Nicky Hayden
Ben Bostrum
Danny Eslick
Randy Mamola
JD Beach
The list is extensive. I think if we resurrect a good dirt track series for the youth that the rest of the equation will be there. If I had a kid,i would take him dirt track racing first. The Hall of Fame is full of them. That or ship them off to Spain at an early age.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/ra...-to-catalunya/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Darnell
"The list is extensive. I think if we resurrect a good dirt track series for the youth that the rest of the equation will be there. If I had a kid,i would take him dirt track racing first. The Hall of Fame is full of them. That or ship them off to Spain at an early age."
Those names you listed are the result of American style racing... oval dirt track racing is purely an American concept and bred a different type of racer.. something I hope is not lost in this coming age...
The bottom line is accessibility... if more communities had dirt tracks for youngsters to cut their teeth on we would see more talent come up through the ranks.. But again for me the question of whether Dorna entering into the U.S. road racing business as the prominent entity is a good thing or bad? It kinda cuts both ways... i want good racing and lots of it... I just hope it does not become just another leg in the MOTOGP world and lose that American flavor...
Mark nailed it. It's what is between the ears, attached to the right arm and in the soul. Learn to run sideways! Learn... We just started running the TMGP. Grids are small and always the same folks. Let's see some more of the young ones out there learning the ropes!
We'll see if a series materializes. Motorcycle racing has taken some serious hits. Lack of money, lack of air time, lack of general interest from a shrinking fan base. Unlike other racing series, motorcycle racing's core fan is either a family member, friend, or club racer.
Kasey, you make the Motogp grid, I'll be your umbrella girl.:thumb:
I was going to mention dirt tracking, I watched it for the first time this summer and it was amazing. Good fun, easy accessible and fun for anyone that showed up. I think I have progressed as quickly as I have in track riding because I grew up in the desert on a dirt bike. I never raced growing up and ship sailed long ago for me making a career out of racing. The one key element for amazing riders is they started young. Marc can barely drink in the US but in a few more months he we will 3 world championships. Something has to be done but I don't know what it is.
Another thought is if we get a dorna series and support from factories then there will be a better goal and essentially create new jobs for not only riders but mechanics as well. My absolute dream job is being a race engineer for a motorcycle team. I have no idea how to do that though. I guess us peons will just have to sit and wait.
Welcome to last month Dugger. :biggrin:
It was new to me! LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Anderson
a lot of dirt trackin is going sideways.
but if theres anyone here that has ever ridden a two-stroke 250 on a grooved half-mile track, you know it's just roadracing after the bikes start laying down rubber
and the sport can be done at a grass roots level for cheap,relatively speaking.
its the missing link that i believe would bring back American dominance
If I was in a position to get up and move across the pond tomorrow I'd do it in a heartbeat. The cultural differences alone make Europe a race friendly environment where the kids could have multiple series of other highly competative kids to run with instead of the same 4 or 5 on the grid. We love coming to the CMRA races and getting to hit the big track with our friends, and the fact that the CMRA will let us do it is huge. No bones about it though, all of our experience comes from TMGP and the smaller tracks, where the kart riders begrudgingly give us the little time that we get. My two cents says that if road racing is to survive and thrive in the US then it needs a major change such as television coverage, manufacturer involvement and support and a positive fan base. Those things all go hand in hand. Manufacturers want coverage and a fan base to purchase motorcycles etc... fans want lots of action and a great venue... television wants an audience.... To bring all of those things together in one place is the task at hand..
I will add I think the classes in AMA pro could be less confusing. I don't even know the difference between Supersport and sportbike... Why do you need 2 600 classes?? It is way too confusing for the layman and people who just want to casually watch. Also WHY do they have 2 races for each class each weekend. Make the format closer to motogp. No need to run 2 races for each class. Run all of the races on Sunday or even Saturday if you do not want to compete with motogp/wsbk. The whole format is not easy to watch for the everyday person who just happens to catch it on TV (not really possible now but you get the point).
^ WSBK holds double headers too. The two 600 classes will be consolidated in AMA as of 2015.
The most encouraging part of this to me is that if road racing culture becomes more eurocentric in the US, we will see feeder and development classes that will better reflect true road racing. As evidenced by the current Aprilia Cup among others, youth racing can be done on proper motorcycles that develop both riders and mechanics into world level material. Plonking kids down on Ninja 250's will not lead to MotoGP success down the road.
If any American rider wants a shot and riding in any World racing series they need to be in Spain or BSB. I talked with Bradley Smiths dad for several hours and the Spanish CEV series is the proving ground. A talented young rider needs to bring $100-$150k in personal sponsorship to ride their 600 class not to mention housing and education expense. This makes it tough for most Americans. They do have camps and tryouts similar to the Red Bull Rookies cup but without that sponsorship money talent doesn't matter. Talent is prevalent down there. We need American Companies interested in racing to invest in The future riders to put on the World stage. I don't know the answer but I know the problem!
Well, I'll pile-on with more problem and no solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McNamara
It's really incumbent on those of us that love racing to figure out how to make it valuable to american companies. And, I'm fresh out of ideas. $150,000 isn't that much money to most companies of even modest size -- it's barely a fully-burdened FTE in the software business, for example -- but when I challenge myself to articulate $150k worth of value to my company for sponsoring racing, I come up about $149k short. And, I'm usually pretty good at asking for investment dollars.
Maybe we ask ourselves how american racing itself needs to change fundamentally to be commercially viable and appealing? If we started with a clean sheet and set out to create a racing product that would broadly appeal, what would it look like? Our current product just doesn't sell...
heres a brain fart,
has anyone thought of maybe having a class that somehow helps an up and coming YOUNG talent get to the show.
i mean, i know there is a couple fast kids here that can get awful close, but $$ is a barrier.
after a few rounds of over priced rubber,which i think is a big issue, im sure they begin to wonder if a more stable career is not the best thing and just stick to club racing where they will soon be bored into quitting.
everyone wants to go big time, but seriously ,it seems as like if you're not winning consistently at 14-15, you may be behind the curve...
I'll repeat what I said before... club road racing is where it all starts. The clubs are splintered organizations with no clear united goal. If there was a dedicated path through the club system to some known end point for rider to follow then corporate sponsorship would at least become somewhat of a viable option. But when the junior ranks are really nothing but purely hobby oriented then you can't blame the corporations to balk. They want to see a business model that has concrete results...
For years I was involved in gymnastics.. I can tell you first hand why the gymnastics club level system is at least moderately successful...They start them young, they give the coaching members of the sport a clear workable systematic path of competition that they are able to use to guide and train athletes. They are governed by a known universal set of rules that apply to all clubs and there is a minimum level of professional certification that participant must meet to be involved.
Gymnasts and their families don't have to guess what the end goals are... corporate entities have a clearer and more concise view of how and where their sponsorship dollars are being spent and what they can expect in return.
It's not a perfect system but it is a good model for what could be in American road racing... there's no reason this could not be ran in conjunction with the hobbyist level of the sport...
My first job...and my longest, truest love (don't go there) was in racing and specifically in the marketing and promotions of racing..which translates simply to money. I still have connections into what now is IndyCar and a few left in NASCAR as well. Yes, motor racing is motor racing. The challenge, quite frankly, is simple; how much exposure can a specific marketing vehicle give to a company? After that, there are some intangible benefits; employee morale and brand association are some examples.
As I see it, we have several rather steep hills to overcome;
1) Investment into motorsports overall is declining. At one point in time, racing was at the top, or near the top world wide as a spectator sport. It's slipping...
2) Because of #1 above, television dollars are slipping, meaning less big time exposure...which of course brings less exposure which means less dollars which means....and so on.
3) Interests in motorcycles may be decreasing as evidenced by a slightly slowing overall motorcycle sales environment. Let's all face it; the motorcycling culture is dramatically different here than in any other country. The average age of the motorcyclist is increasing. Companies are striving to find new, young blood; BMW with sport bikes, the Japanese with more sub 600cc/non-supersport bikes...
4) We don't take motorcycles or motorcycling in the country seriously. There, I said it...from the way insurance treats motorcycles to the way we license and train motorcyclists to the way non-motorcyclist treat motorcyclist to the way motorcyclist treat motorcycling...we don't take it seriously here. See #3 above...
5) Racing, in all forms in the US, competes with far too many stick and ball sports. In the rest of the world? Soccer...sure there are other sports, but gee whiz! In the US, we have football, basketball, baseball and hockey...and to a lessor degree, soccer. Kids who don't grow up with motorcycling parents...especially those who don't race, WILL NOT LIKELY be racing...
Unfortunately, there is such a small part of the population in the US that is interested in motorcycle racing. It's a tough pill to swallow for everyone on this board, but it's fact...Want a US kid to make it big on the world scene? Grab him young, ship him Spain, don't let him ever find out about Xbox, soccer or girls. You might have a chance...
In today's world, if it resembled Supercross or something like X-Games, then that's the best chance it would stand at making money and surviving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Dugger
Here's a list of North American oil companies with the bottom half consisting of US-based. Click on any one of them and notice that their revenue (and assets) is measured in billions. Now, find Repsol in that list. Notice how its revenue and assets is measured in millions. Any one of those US oil companies (even the ones you've never heard of) could sponsor a MotoGP team with the money that they use to wipe their ___. All we need to do is find where their sewer flows. :))
valid point Dean, billions dont get there by spending themselves.LOL
you'd have to convince one of their grandsons to go MC road racing rather than Nascaring, then you may have a chance.
I noticed that I actually forgot to include the link in my previous post. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...#North_America
BTW, did you just call me Dean?
Ya, it confused me too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Gurevich
I think there are so many different types of adrenaline events out there now that customer entertainment $$ is spread thin. So fans get choosy and motorcycle racing suffers from a lack of marketing hype from all the ADD towards flashier events. How about we chrome our bikes to up the bling factor and perhaps they will look our way? Also mandatory antics at the finish line for the winner would make it fun....lol.
Our take as a fan: We wanted to attend an AMA race to see what it is like but decided against it. It is difficult to view much except maybe one or two turns and a far glance at the pits so TV was the better less expensive option... (when it is broadcasted).
Road America has great viewing but you really need a pit bike to ride around the track. It wasn't all that expensive and I had a great time.
I will be at road America in 2 days. :)
There's a number of US based companies with foreign presence that sponsor road racing riders in other countries. Albeit those budgets are relevant to their respective business units region but as most of you have alluded to there's a obvious popularity contrast from US and Euro public interest which garners the monies from marketing departments. Supercross does well but the cost of entry/participation from the general public is a stark contrast from road racing so you have a automatic broader viewing base. Someone brought up the notion of a "common" goal between regional racing which I think maybe the ticket. One of the problems USA has rather than Europe is that we're so damn big. Lest we forget you can almost blanket the entire west Europe with Texas alone; in my opinion therein lies the problem. In almost all popular sporting events, the smaller cultural countries are fierce competitors in which fans are organically born. They have different languages, historical backgrounds and even different races in what otherwise be a drive from Austin to Houston. As it stands here and now its always great to see a Texas rider kick a California riders behind and we take pride as members of the racing community but from a public perspective it doesn't have much bearing. I never watch soccer, aheim Fotbal, but when USA is kicking other countries A I'm all over it for the simple fact we are. If we could some how organize that regional notion both from a commutation perspective but also from a points challenge etc... across all the USA I think it might have some legs.
I like the concept of regional competition here in the US. I'm not sure if you could get other regions to sign on though. They won't want to get their butts whipped by Texans on a regular basis. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by William Guthrie
Wow, Bill, lots of very good points in there :thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by William Guthrie
Those new meds must be doing the trick :wink:
...nothing like a Monster at 7 am to get the juices flowing. I've actually contemplated this a lot whereas I hate to see whats happening to the sport here in the USA. I've actually got much more in terms proposed ideas, just waiting for the right ears and left for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Etheredge
MAN OH MAN OH MAN! I have been waiting for this topic to come up. I am a proverbial loaner in my world when it comes to American Road Racing. Absolutely no one in my personal or professional life gives a crap about road racing and only feel compassion for my passion and listen to me ramble because they care. Out of appreciation I keep it to 3 minutes max.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark niemi
The genius of our domination from 78-94 was we were the first to take dirt track background and apply it too the track. Now everyone knows about it and trains with it. (See Marquez broken leg mid Sepang). Now, we are the ones way behind the ball and must start doing what the Spanish are doing. I don't think its a matter of bike size like a Moto3 or 2 class, but really two things. 1-Sponsorship and 2 Electronics.
I was in the Army. I was an Infantry machine gunner in Iraq. The guys like me who grew up hunting and shooting long distances understood the fundamentals of weapons on a different level than the city boys who only shot a few feet across the street. We were the lead gunners and laid down 75% of the fire for the Platoon between just two guns. Then one day the Army issued a new weapon system that was a .50 cal machine gun attached to a gun control unit that could fire, calculate and compensate for wind, barometric pressure, temperature and drop enemy type silhouettes from twice the distance with every predetermined shot. It was operated by a man in the back of the truck who used a screen and a joystick to operate it. Most of my life I had despised video games. I never wanted to play something with my fingers. I wanted to be out side and doing it. I get no pleasure out of MotoGP on PS3/4 whatever. I thought those who buried themselves in games were waiting their time. When I saw those same kids dropping perfect round after perfect round I knew something had changed warfare forever. (See UAV bombings)
Simply put Rossi was raised with a rifle, Marquez with a joystick. Two different views and paths into the same arena and only one seems to be the current master.
As far as sponsorship; I believe until we do whatever is necessary to get spectators to the track we don't have a chance at getting the kind of money that someone like Repsol is throwing down in Europe. Sponsors are sponsors because they want to sell stuff. Right now the sponsors of the CMRA and most of the rest of American Road Racing want to sell stuff to racers. If they are supporting my series I feel nearly obligated to buy their products. Even if they are not my absolute favorite or the absolute best deal. It's not that big of a sacrifice, after all we are just club racing.
But, its when we can bring in sponsors that want to sell to spectators, (Pepsi, Home Depot, Trane Air conditioners, etc.....) that big money will come down. $20,000 to sponsor a series for a season is NOTHING to Pepsi or any one of 100's of big business out there that could be drawn in if we had spectators.
I don't look to a national series to make a bed to breed world class racers. For me it starts in the same paddock I walk in with pride. I do have some good ideas on how we can bring people out to watch races that aren't there to see friends or family but for a good show. I'm not full of it either. I have set aside $6000 of my own money to drop on one race to see some real action, create rivalry, and make a great show. I stopped and talked with some of you about this at Hallett this year. If you are like minded then quote me and I'll continue. If not I will give you the same courtesy I give all my friends and limit my babbling to 3 minutes of your time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Williams
hit the nail dead on.......
So what do we train our kids on? Groms with bazzaz w/TC & QS?Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rodriguez
That is as funny as it may be accurateQuote:
Originally Posted by David Adams11
This why I am proposing, (and financing), a shoot out race between CMRA and WERA sprint racers at (hopefully) the combined event at Hallett next year. Noting is better for sport than rivalry. Once it is set in motion it takes on a force of its own. I want it to be an invitational with no entry to the competitors, more than 8 laps, perhaps a qualifying session for grid or based on season points. Top expert racers from both clubs, maybe 20-25 shoot it out for a $3000 purse. If either club sweeps the podium, the money doubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Guthrie
Suggestions?
I possibly know someone who would throw some cash at this. if you will be at TWS let's chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Williams
Wow... would love to see that! Definitely more than 8 laps though to make it worth the while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Williams
No TWS but I will be at MSRC on the 24th. I need to get a solid layout of how to run this in order to send proposals to both CMRA and WERA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Dufrene
When I was a young racer I was sliding all over the track one race morning and then staring at a slightly blistered rear tire knowing that I was capable of finishing higher than I would that day. I had about decided that what I spent to get there was not worth the fun I would get out of lapping with the foremost thoughts being just not crashing, when a kindly voice from behind me commented on its condition. I shrugged my shoulders and told him I would make do and try to stay up. He asked me how long I had been racing and I told him it was my first year. Honestly I shouldn't have been out there on the money I made, with a 1 year old son and new(ish) wife. I had only begun to make the kind of money that, by eating Ramen at work everyday, could muster the cash to go racing. I would have been happy with just tracking it if that had been available but in those days but, pre-Lone Star and Ride Smart, that was the only path to an open track.
After some more polite yet concerning conversation he asked if I had the gear to remove the rear wheel. I did and he told me if I wanted he would be happy to get me another one. I absolutely did not know what to say. As passionate as I was about racing and how much I loved taking turns horizontal, it was like the best gift and the kindest act anyone had bestowed. After some insistence on his part I went with him to the Dunlop truck and was soon donned with new rubber to line the inside of my rim with. The day was saved and I had four great races with some great action with my old riding dawg Eddie Burk.
The mans name was Brooks Gremmels.
A few years later, I somehow managed to get Brooks on the phone in my effort to find out how much the awards dinner costs where my hero Colin Edwards II was to accept his HOF award. It was just a couple of months after Colin had that epic battle at Imola and won the championship and I wanted to be there so bad. That was post-911 and my lively hood was shot in the head. My race bike long sold and funds too short for the trip. When he asked for my address I though it was for some kind of mailer. Then a few days later I received my paid invitation to the awards banquet.
Because of this kindness laid upon me by Brooks so long ago, now that I am surely past any prime of blistering competition that I feel compelled on the deepest level to give back to this club, this sport and to all its participants and supporters as much as I can. I am not rich or even well off. Just successful enough to throw some of my own money down do demonstrate that I believe in my own endeavors and ideas.
I believe, working together with those that share my passion to ultimately hear the National Anthem at a world event, to have an American World Champion and believe that the very little we do is making that a possibility again. How ever the smallest amount. Every grain of gun powder is needed to win the war.
More than I have money I have the ability to get others to believe in what I do. The money I put up is only a sign of confidence. When you walk in and say "I have a great idea for your money!" that is much different than saying, "I have a great idea with my own money, do you want in?"
More competitors with more sponsorship, purses for 1st through 10th in all major categories, creates better competition, brings more spectators, which brings even bigger sponsors which brings even bigger purses and the monster feeds itself. Though it will need constant tending to keep the scraps going back into the bowl, (i.e. people like me).
I think about it a lot. My first real attempt is this shootout race. With unanimous approval, I would like to call it the Brooks Gremmels shootout. A trophy only given when a club sweeps the podium. We will want to keep that and WERA will want to take it. Ok, experts. Who's game?
To Brooks! :cheers:
Jesse -- I don't think we have met before, but I want to encourage you to talk to the various Board members informally to test ideas and get initial feedback. On a proposal like yours I'm probably not the right guy, but I would be happy to listen. Our members like Danny, Ted and Ty that have a better sense for classes and structures would be great to talk to...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Williams
All of us tend to be pretty addicted to racing, so we are usually easy enough to chase down at any CMRA event... come say hi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Dugger
Like I like to say. MAN OH MAN OH MAN! Do I need some guidance. I was simply sitting at a track day and started a brainstorm that led to the whole idea. I honestly have no real experience within the classes, venues and boards to create a viable proposal. I will be competing at MSRC on the 24th, other than that I am dedicating the remainder of my involvement this year to doing exactly what you suggest.
It's going to take the advice and support of everyone from the top down to make this a success. I know that Connie at Hallett is certainly open to the event being held there and if it is a combined event like this year maybe we can get some to hold over for Sunday if we can get a good show going. I talk to the local riders here in Tulsa and they all want to do track time. Some want to race. But everyone I talk to would ride out for a big show on a Sunday.
I have set up a LLC for Race Ad nauseam race promotions, The business has half the capital required for the actual payout. When it is all there and I can literaly "put up or shut up" I will reach out to Danny, Ty, Ted, and anyone else that has the experience to give guidance.
Long ago I remember a Red River Shoot Out. I don't remember if it is the same idea I have now, but I think it was for good money and more than 8 laps.
Rumor confirmed:
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...UF1Lo.facebook
As vague as this report seemed I imagine that they have a well sorted plan to go public with it. My problem is the cost for a youngster to ride a GP style bike. They killed two strokes and the four strokes are outrageous in price. Without manufacturer assistance this program that they develop will be tough for most parents. What would be there idea for a Moto 2 bike??