Main goal of MotoAmerica ?

Am I the only one confused by the conclusion of the Superbike races this weekend?

Perhaps I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the foundation and basis of forming MotoAmerica, was to get American riders prepared for world-class racing competition, and to promote the skills of American riders, to the world racing audience.

So, team Suzuki has an injured American rider, and proceeds to fill his spot with a Moto2 Champion (Tony Elias), who then comes in and wins both races at CoTA this weekend!?
This really makes no sense to me, of how this helps to promote American riders!

It can be appreciated, that bringing a rider of this skill to MotoAmerica, is a showcase of what they can be up against in world-class racing, but in it's second season, is this the direction that the organization is already / really going to go?
Is this American-based racing league, created to promote and give experience to American racers, going to be inundated with foreign riders coming in, and completely defeating what is my understanding to be the purpose and creation of MotoAmerica..?

I think that the first goal is to stay in business. I assume that the thinking is that if they can bring in some established Euro riders that some fans will follow. Following the same model set forth by the AMA wouldn't seem to smart of a business plan. You can't up the level of the US riders without a rabbit to chase I guess. Unfortunately I think Josh Herron's performance in Moto2 put a big hurt on people's willingness to take a chance on a US rider. I am not saying it was all his fault. Throwing him into Moto2 was probably asking too much. I don't mind them filling a few grid spots with Euro talent. It helps give a gauge of the performance level of our riders. My main concern with MotoAmerica is the viewing being on BEIN. It needs to be on a major channel so that people that aren't into it can get some exposure. DMG did a great bit of damage to American motorcycle racing.

There were 10 Superbike bikes on the grid. Of which, only 4 finished in front of Superstock 1000s. I didn't see too many up and comers in the group either. If they can get bikes on the grid at all I think they are doing good.

I'd rather see Toni Elias out there than some mid packer paying for his ride. Too bad Cam had a rough day.

Locking "foreigners" out of MotoAmerica sounds great until the euro and other series do the same thing to Americans. Racing is not exempt from the global economy.

Ya I agree with Brandt, I think Tony spiced up the series and will elevate the field if he gets to continue in the series after Lewis comes back. If these guys hope to compete against Europe's best, I think MotoAmerica should have some Europeans in the mix. Seemed to me the wrong riders were on the superbikes, guys like Herrin, Eslick, etc. should be on the superbikes not the superstocks. The series is assbackwards right now.

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Originally Posted by Yorke Oldfather

Ya I agree with Brandt, I think Tony spiced up the series and will elevate the field if he gets to continue in the series after Lewis comes back. If these guys hope to compete against Europe's best, I think MotoAmerica should have some Europeans in the mix. Seemed to me the wrong riders were on the superbikes, guys like Herrin, Eslick, etc. should be on the superbikes not the superstocks. The series is assbackwards right now.

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With a grid so small, I think they should flatten it.

Hopefully he forces everyone to step their game up. I think the yamahas will come out swinging in Atlanta, especially Cam.

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I agree with Chase, Michael I don't think Graves or Yoshi would stick around for a Superstock class. They do a lot of developement in the race series for their own line of race products. I think the wrong riders are on the wrong teams right now, it seems scrambled.

I enjoyed the SBK races this weekend and was genuinely happy to see Elias win those races. I was however a little surprised to see the Graves boys struggle as much as they did. Overall I have to think it is good for the MA to have Elias do what he did, especially on the Suzuki to break up the Yamaha dominance, even if it ends up being short lived. The real question in my mind however was: if the Americans that are running in the series cannot beat Elias with the benefit of a season of riding the bikes/tires/setups/etc then what hope do we have of one of them stepping over to Europe and beating them on equal or lesser terms.

Keep in mind that COTA suits Elias' experience quite well. Its a sea of runoff with substantial grip and all in all, its quite smooth.

Road Atlanta is a different monster altogether. Its going to be interesting.

until a true privateer with some talent can show up to the races in a pickup truck, with a privately prepared bike and compete towards the front, the series is going to struggle to grow. plus, you cant sit in one place and watch a roadrace with a beer and hot dog in your hand and see all the action....

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Originally Posted by Neil Klein

...if the Americans that are running in the series cannot beat Elias with the benefit of a season of riding the bikes/tires/setups/etc then what hope do we have of one of them stepping over to Europe and beating them on equal or lesser terms.

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This. We need Elias and people like him here to help raise the level of competition. It's going to take time for the Americans to up their game. This isn't s short term project.

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Originally Posted by Brad Wilcox

Unfortunately I think Josh Herron's performance in Moto2 put a big hurt on people's willingness to take a chance on a US rider. I am not saying it was all his fault. Throwing him into Moto2 was probably asking too much.

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I agree with most of the points you made, but I don't understand the line of thinking on Herrin. If his failing in Moto2 wasn't his fault, then whose fault was it? Also, why was putting him in Moto2 asking too much? He's a pro. MOTO2 is a proving ground on a world class level, on similar bikes to what he was racing in the US with great success. He just wasn't good enough, and he made some poor decisions as a professional that ended his world championship series career quickly and abruptly. As we all know professional motorcycle racing is a brutal and cut throat business. There are many riders who have gotten screwed, but in my opinion Herrin wasn't one of them. He made a series of bad decisions on and off the track that led to his premature dismissal from Moto2.

Those guys should want to have riders like Tony in their presence. It should make them step up their game. Having riders like Tony Elias, Claudio Corti, and Sheridan Morais in the mix should bring over more viewers as well. I think it's good for the sport.

Would you want to win against a bunch of amateurs or win knowing you beat some world level riders?

I think he would have a better chance of success spending a year doing a championship like the CEV Moto2 series to get him some time on the bike. I am by no means a fan of how Herrin conducted himself I just wish it didn't play out on the world stage. I think it would have been better for the future of American riders if he self destructed in the CEV series.

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Originally Posted by Brad Wilcox

I think he would have a better chance of success spending a year doing a championship like the CEV Moto2 series to get him some time on the bike. I am by no means a fan of how Herrin conducted himself I just wish it didn't play out on the world stage. I think it would have been better for the future of American riders if he self destructed in the CEV series.

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That's very true. I feel the same way.

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Originally Posted by Paul Garcia

Those guys should want to have riders like Tony in their presence. It should make them step up their game. Having riders like Tony Elias, Claudio Corti, and Sheridan Morais in the mix should bring over more viewers as well. I think it's good for the sport.

Would you want to win against a bunch of amateurs or win knowing you beat some world level riders?

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Ya I see it the same way, how about MotoAmerica becoming a bid deal again, with world riders and factory support across the board. Ben Spies was a better rider because he had to beat Mat Mladin, Josh Hayes also had to go up against Mat as well as others.

Ummm DuHamel ring any bells, a fresh GP 500 rider coming and DOMINATING the 600/FX Class, Mat Mladin an Australian with so many AMA records it's mind boggling, but without those riders, and that calibur, would Ben Spies have been so successful??? 41 year old Josh Hayes would be forced out if that were truly the case?! Seriously Bro, Tony Elias and Hayden dicing it up on broadcast TV is a HUGE shot in the arm, besides in "Fastest" didn't Nicky Hayden say he owed his 2006 Championship to Tony Elias??? And as much as I despised the whole DMG catastrophe, all the blame cannot be placed on them, in 2008 a fast club rider could make six figures at club level, and DuHamel was reported to make $2mm. Go watch "The Big Short" if you really want to understand what happened to our sport's support. I was more upset that BeIN had no ticker tape to show Jay Newton's position or times at the time, nor did they show where everyone else was in that 7th through 12th spots, that was on BeIN Sports, NOT MotoAmerica. As to the BIGGEST crime DMG was a part of, was paper pushing Josh Herrin into Josh Haye's Championship spot, they did the same thing to our own Dustin Dominguez's Championship spot, they used suspect rulings to strip those two of the Championships OFF the TRACK. So Josh Herrin capitalizing on a fluke wasn't really to be blamed, he knew he didn't earn that #1 spot, so he saw his shot and took it, but it really but a bad after taste in the rest of the world's view of an AMA Superbike Champion. Obviously for Josh Hayes, he has no ambitions beyond the AMA, so based on your premise, he should be forced to retire??? Lastly, they should NOT be issuing "Pro" Licenses to all the riders, they should be issuing Amateur and Professional licenses based upon whether you pay to ride, or get paid to ride, that whole "Pro" License is what we should really be talking about, in my opinion. Feel free to disagree, but regardless, let's have a GREAT weekend at MSR Cresson ;)

To have an apples to apples conversation you need to look at the hard facts. The Moto2 bikes were half a second FASTER than the MotoAmerica superbikes. That's not all horsepower people...those guys are on another planet fast! And, they're using frames and suspension that doesn't exist on the production platform. Further, if you look at the entire MotoGP field, virtually all of the front running 10-15 riders came out of the 125/250/Moto2 ranks. I had a chance to speak with an ex GP racer (name withheld) on this subject and he felt wholeheartedly that the lack of US interest and subsequent funding is the source of the problem. Club level racing has reverted to non-GP based bikes because of cost and availability. Having little Johnny start out on his dirt bike is perfectly understandable. Expecting him to end up in Europe racing 250/300's, 500's, and SV650's is lunacy. MotoAmerica, IMHO, is really working hard to bring the right people into US roadracing in an attempt to help develop the programs needed to get American youth back to the world stage. Years ago, Kenny Roberts took a few kids and helped develop them on proper machinery and a couple have gone on to huge success. More of that approach might be necessary to get the next American to Europe. Just my .02.

Tad, the demise of the GP 2-stroke bikes, are the demise of American presense on the world stage, as you know. If there was someone like Michael Czysz or Eric Buell to develop 2-strokes GP bikes with FI that are affordable for the masses...snow mobiles and outboard motors are out there at competitive prices, so why do we have to take what the EPA did lying down??? Again, this is my theory and dream, but $10-25k for a decent 10-20 year old TZ or RS 250 to race USGPRU (which isn't "local" club type accessible), isn't viable. And spending $40k on a Suter setup plus another $25k to develop 140 rwhp CBR600 isn't really affordable, not to mention most clubs would only allow in one class, doesn't help up either. So what's the answer??? I don't know, but we need a rich visionary/engineer if we're to put American riders at the forefront of the World Stage, MotoAmerica is a good start, but Tad, like you said Moto2 is within 1/2 second of top Superbike riders, ex-MotoGP rider Tony Elias included.

Bring back the 2-stroke GP bikes!

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Originally Posted by Kent Schrock

Bring back the 2-stroke GP bikes!

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^^^^^^ DEFINITELY...but has to be affordable and EPA compliant^^^^^
(e.g. fuel injected, $8-15k for modern 250 level)

Again...
How many times did the beIN announcers for the weekend event tv coverage, make the statement "MotoAmerica is the place for US riders to prepare for racing overseas"!?
As it appears, many of you disagree with my point of this topic, but I simply don't understand the move by the Suzuki team, in bringing in a Moto2 Champion, and recent MotoGP racer, to compete in a racing league, which is formed to "prepare" for racing on the world-level. How is that for 'preparing' to race on the world-level, to race against someone who's already been a 'World Champion'...?
That's like telling someone in their first/second ever race weekend, racing in just CMRA, that if you want to prepare / compare yourself for competiveness, that you have to go up against the likes of Ty / Danny / Derek / Dustin...

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Originally Posted by Greg Gilstrap

Again...
How many times did the beIN announcers for the weekend event tv coverage, make the statement "MotoAmerica is the place for US riders to prepare for racing overseas"!?
As it appears, many of you disagree with my point of this topic, but I simply don't understand the move by the Suzuki team, in bringing in a Moto2 Champion, and recent MotoGP racer, to compete in a racing league, which is formed to "prepare" for racing on the world-level. How is that for 'preparing' to race on the world-level, to race against someone who's already been a 'World Champion'...?
That's like telling someone in their first/second ever race weekend, racing in just CMRA, that if you want to prepare / compare yourself for competiveness, that you have to go up against the likes of Ty / Danny / Derek / Dustin...

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They WOULD have to compete against those 4 if they still raced depending on classes they chose?! Your argument seems to collapse on itself. Again, Mladin, DuHamel, and now Hayes and Cameron. Also we have Corti and Morais. And Tony Elias isn't even the best of the best of World Talent. If Tony had been here, Josh Herrin would've never messed up his career track, he went from Factory Yamaha AMA Superbike #1 (plate that he never got to wear once), to a 600 Supersport racer.

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Originally Posted by Greg Gilstrap

Again...
How many times did the beIN announcers for the weekend event tv coverage, make the statement "MotoAmerica is the place for US riders to prepare for racing overseas"!?
As it appears, many of you disagree with my point of this topic, but I simply don't understand the move by the Suzuki team, in bringing in a Moto2 Champion, and recent MotoGP racer, to compete in a racing league, which is formed to "prepare" for racing on the world-level. How is that for 'preparing' to race on the world-level, to race against someone who's already been a 'World Champion'...?
That's like telling someone in their first/second ever race weekend, racing in just CMRA, that if you want to prepare / compare yourself for competiveness, that you have to go up against the likes of Ty / Danny / Derek / Dustin...

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the factories (sadly only yamaha/suzuki right now) only care about winning. Suzuki needed a replacement rider, and they hired the guy that they thought had the best chance of putting their bike up front. should they of hired a much less experienced young supersport or superstock racer (who doesn't already have a ride) and hope he can adapt to factory superbike HP and advanced electronics?? seems like an easy decision for me.

and your cmra example works. If someone in their first/second race weekend could run with Ty/Danny/Derek/Dustin/BC, I'd say that's a pretty damn good indicator that they've got a chance at the next level. I've read stories that when Colin Edwards was a first year novice, he was fighting for overall wins with the top experts, starting from the 2nd wave of novices..

Andy don't forget Shea Fouchek was an AMA Licensed Pro BEFORE he finished his Prov Nov requirements with the CMRA lol...Also, because he was a Pro AMA Flat Tracker, CMRA never let Ty Howard be a Novice at all, even though he never even road raced before lol.

I would have preferred that MotoAmerica not just be a training ground for international racing...
I think working toward making the series THE premier racing series... that other countries riders aspire to participate in....
I know... just a pipe dream. But it sure is nice to see CMRA riders in the mix!

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Originally Posted by Scott Finning

I would have preferred that MotoAmerica not just be a training ground for international racing...
I think working toward making the series THE premier racing series... that other countries riders aspire to participate in....
I know... just a pipe dream. But it sure is nice to see CMRA riders in the mix!

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Yeah...but that doesn't happen unless you let the top riders compete in it.

Top talent will always want to compete at the highest level. If the races in MotoAmerica are going to prepare riders for racing at the top levels and even be the top level itself, it has to open itself to allowing the top talent to compete.

Think of it this way...if you were the parent of a young racer who would eventually be as good as Mark Marquez and money wasn't an issue for you. Where would you have them develop? In a series that was for only American racers that was a few steps below the world level of competition or would you fly them to Europe and have them learn to race with other young racers?

American racing will become the venue of choice when the talent is at a world level. It works this way in every sport. Europeans come to North America if they are the best at Supercross because the talent is at a world level. Baseball, basketball, football all have no problem keeping US born players at home and drawing from the talent of other countries because they are the best.

Soccer, road racing (motorcycle and F1) and other sports have much better competition in Europe and have a harder time developing US talent.

The weird one is Hockey and maybe that is the recipe for MotoAmerica. They actually have more foreign players than US born ones but the best league in the world is in the US so people come to the US (and Canada) to play. Even so, they definitely have a policy of including the best players to elevate the league.

Back to MotoAmerica, I don't think it's possible to grow and keep world level talent without allowing world level talent to compete in your races.

2 weekends in, and the European riders are already making our guys step it up. Beaubier running less than half a second off his qualifier lap (a tire built to be good for a little over a second knocked off) with 18 laps on the tires is insane.

If you don't bring European riders over into our series, how do you know how our guys stack up? It needed to happen, it's a good move, and the racing is much more exciting because of it.

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It didn't and wouldn't work that way. 250's (specifically Yamaha TZ) were hand built and limited to less that a hundred or so (at most!) a year. They came as rolling race bikes with an ample supply of spares to run a good season or two. The last models had magnesium race wheels, power valves, full floating rotors, and made around 95 hp with proper jetting on a day with great air. Alan Cathcart said that was the most perfect motorcycle he ever rode regardless of money. The last of the 09's ran around $27K. Again, those are purpose built, hand built race machines and not something that comes out of a factory a thousand or so at a time. Sadly, Dorna (and $$$Honda$$$) are making sure to run the series the way that is the most advantageous to them. The irony in that is that 250's STILL hold the outright lap record on a number of tracks and have been out of the series since 09. The KTM's reportedly made around 120hp...fast forward to current tire/suspension technology with direct injection and such and it staggers the mind. Plus nothing, and I mean NOTHING!, sounds like a 250 at full scream!!! God i miss the good ol' days!!!

Still hoping I win one of the big lottery grand prize, there's 7 nearly new TZs and RSs that I'd buy and "sponsor" several smoker specialists to both teach me how to ride and service them and race with me ;)