Thanks and thoughts from TWS

First the thanks you's..........

Jimmy C....you still amaze me with your suspention voodoo, sorry I only got two podiums. Those were thanks to you, the other resuts were me sucking out loud.

David Hirsch....The best rubber around, I want a new poduim hat, I've worn the last one out.

Sum of All Parts... For support your mama couldn't give you. You guys rock!! Thanks joe and Daniel for everything.

Big Duke, Winn Racing..... Thanks for the class sponsorship and the sweet trophies!!! Besides action pics and some scars what else would I have to show for the time, effort and money poured into this madness. Very good thing of you to do for us lowly novice racers. You gonna come and give me a battle anytime soon?

Amy Eader... The bestest, hottest, smartest pit girl a slow guy could ever dream of, I love you!!! The most relaxed I have ever been at a race weekend, thank you Baby. She can safety wire like nothing you've ever seen, even Derek would be impressed. You all may have one the races, but I won the overall when she found me.

Marv(brain lover), Pit Mama(goat lover), FFFalconi(bat wing master), Assglue(just assglue), and the rest of my pit mates.... Ya'll make sucking out loud fun and bearable. If they gave a trophy for fun ya'll got first! You all make it worth showing up even if there were no races.

Danny Kessley.... good racing as always. You make a fantastic "rabbit" for the hounds. F1 was the highlight of my weekend, that was the closest finish I've ever had, felt like I got a MotoGP podium!!! If you're gonna keep whippin' me like that better bring you own spares. :p

I'd like to appologize to Rusk for the hissy fit I threw after our incident in T3 C superstock. I still had my race face on and was quite pissed, I know it wasn't on purpose, and I am glad you are alright. You're bike didn't seem to fair as well. In the future after such an incident, good taste and sportsmanship would dictate you find the other guy and appologize, don't make them come find you.

And now the thoughts.......(I can see you all winching)
First off, good job to the CMRA staff for a well run weekend despite lots of red flags and medical holds. Has anyone ever considered flipping the schedule? Seems the guys who race at the end of the day are ALWAYS getting short races. For the past three years the schedule has been pretty much the same. I understand the need for the mini classes in the morning at TWS with the short track set up, but everywhere else can't they run at the end of the day for a change? Would seem like the fair thing to do once in a while, and maybe we'd get full length races for a change. I'm not *****in', just a suggestion.
Where is the big bike practice we were supposed to get in exchange for the RRC? Also rider's school on Friday LSTD was supposed to free up the schedule as well, what gives? I obviously need more practice!!!!
Also still wonder why mini's get such a nice price break on entry fees, aren't we all in this club together? Same amount of effort is required by staff, track time, etc. etc. Seems the big bike sprinters foot most of the cost for the club, yet get the short end of the stick with shortened races at the end of the day. Change isn't always easy, but it is usually good. Let's spread the love and share the burden........

From Susan: Buckeeeeee's in love (appologies to Rickie Lee Jones)

I would also like to express my thanks to the entire CMRA staff. You guys rock for puttin' on a great show for everyone!

For some folks it was a rough week end (lots of crashes & red flags), I hope everyone is doing fine or on the way to a speedy recovery.

I was also going to suggest the same thing as Buck, why not rotate the schedule slightly or reverse the Big Bike race order every other week end? Running B & C SBK I'm always in the last two races of the day, and they get hit hardest if the schedule is under a time crunch.


Cheers & see y'all at Hallett!

Flipping the schedule does not work. It has been tried many times before.

The minis normally run on Saturday and have since last season. They were on Sunday this weekend because of the 8Hr. They will be back on Saturday for the rest of the season.

Why does everyone seem to believe that every weekend we shorten races?? We ran full length races at MSR and finished early. I don't think we can count OHR.

Everyone think back to those wonderful RRC days. We only ran the RRC at 5 select events each season, not every event like some people seem to remember. If you take a look at the 06 season schedule you will see there is open practice on Saturday at 6 events. Riders school on Friday only saved us about 15 mins since that’s all the track time that the school would get. The reason LSTD took over the rider’s school is because we were screwing the students by only giving them 15 mins of on track instruction.

The mini classes are entry level classes for the most part. They get shorter races and at TWS a shorter course.

The first few events of each season always seem to be a bit wild. I think things will start to settle down from here on out.

Thanks Walter, like I said, not *****ing, just suggesting. Would be nice to not be the last two races EVERY weekend. By the time things were over this weekend,I got packed, and the 30 minutes to protest were over, Roxanna had already left with the "trophies" I had won. Not asking for a flip, just a litte rearagnement to share it all out. Not sure why a flip can't work, still the same number of laps, same number of races, just a bit of drag and drop on a schedule program. How hard is it to make race 7 into race 22 and vice versa? I'd be more than happy to help if I could in any way.........

Quote:

Originally posted by Walter Walker:


Everyone think back to those wonderful RRC days. We only ran the RRC at 5 select events each season, not every event like some people seem to remember. If you take a look at the 06 season schedule you will see there is open practice on Saturday at 6 events. Riders school on Friday only saved us about 15 mins since that’s all the track time that the school would get. The reason LSTD took over the rider’s school is because we were screwing the students by only giving them 15 mins of on track instruction.

Walter, thanks for mixing in the "facts" to keep us honest.

I think the process of using a set schedule order works well. Mixing up the schedule sequence, for me, would be problematic because I'm old and I'd forget what race I was in from week to week if they were mixed up.

Some classes have to be the last two or three of the day and as long as we mix it up from year to year then I think it's a fair system. My buddy is in race #22 and my last race is #19 but he still beats me out of the paddock. Must be because my toy hauler is bigger than his toy hauler. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Ya'll have to remember that Sunday was set back from pratice, bike retreival I believe? I know the 12:45 spectator lap didn't happen till like
1:30 by my clock, then there were 2 red flag in a row with ambulance rides that left the races on hold waiting for a ambulance to get back. I can't remember the last time that happened.

Some classes have to be the last two or three of the day and as long as we mix it up from year to year then I think it's a fair system. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] [/QB][/QUOTE]

I totally agree with all of the above. It's been the same for the last three years. I too remember the 5 race RRC series, and at the time wondered how it would give us more big bike practice. This trade off was how it was presented to the membership and it has never come to fruition. It's cool to take things away if that is how it must be. I personally don't like to be told that reason X will accomplish Y and never see it come about. Just my opinion and feeling on the matter, and hear the same for others frequently. I'm just dumb enough to speak up about it I guess.........

Way to go Buck! Good pass you put on me in F1 Race going through the chicane... I think you might have even run off the track and then came back to make that move [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] You were definitely a "man on a mission" Sunday!

Good on ya, mate! See ya at Hallet.
Duke

hey buck if you dont want to be in the last two races....pick a different class to run... :p
HEHEHEHEHEHE...just my 2 cents...LMAO

Those are my best two Holy-man, Everyone's either too tired, broke thier bike, or went home!! I'm gonna win on attrition.

I remember the RRC. I also remember the last few out of many race weekend announcements that we set records for entries.
Things change - we need to constantly re-evaluate. Just because something doesn't work in one circumstance, does not mean it doesn't work ever. I'm not starting a coup - just a reminder that we need to keep open minds as the dynamics of the club develop. That's the only way we endeavor to persevere.

Buck, Just thought I'd say I had fun racing you Sunday, I believe we went back and forth several times, very clean and very good racing... I saw the entire incident with Rusk, it happened right in front of me, He passed me on his front wheel, (thought he was gonna take me out.)Then Hunt passed me and crashed right in front of me, then someone else did the same thing, all on lap one...
I swear, I've never avoided so many accidents so fast. At that point, I was afraid to twist the throttle. MAYHAM!! Yikes!!! Congrats on your win.

In 16 years with the CMRA I have see many great innovations in scheduling come and go. In the end it all comes down to compromise.
When I set up the schedules I start by arranging the classes so that the fewest number of racers have back to back races. Then the races with combined classes have to have bikes with similar performance. From there it's on to past entry numbers for each class. Last but not least we have track density that varies from track to track. I think this is called reevaluating.
The reason the race orders don’t change much from season to season is because we have pretty much the same classes from season to season.
If you really want to know what causes shortened races then here it is. Forget about red flags, track cleanup, and ambulances.

Shortened races are caused by crashes.

If we had no crashes with our current schedule we would be done by 5:00pm.

Now let’s evaluate that.

For what its worth. I agree it would be fair to rotate the sprint races to wit: make race 19, race 10 and race 10, race 19 and so forth. When havoc strikes as it did at TWS it was the later races that suffer by truncating the laps to 4, which makes for a good drag race instead of a roadrace. Why not consider having an alternate cushion to deal with such incidents than merely cutting laps, such as; eliminate lunch or reduce it to 30 minutes. I realize CMRA personnel need to be fed, but it can be done without taking an hour for lunch. Perhaps have all mini races on Sat.. Lastly with all due respect, saying it won't work & its been tried before, is a lame anwser. Please explain why it won't work so sniveling will go away.

I'm tired of explaining myself and my decisions.
You people can't even remember that minis always run on Saturday except for the 8hr weekend.
That flipping the schedule caused so much confusion that the people that cried the loudest for it wanted it to stop.
That lunch is 45 mins now.
That I can't ask cornerworkers and staff to work from 5:30am to 7:00pm without a break.

I give up!!!

Walter,

Maybe I'm missreading you, but you seem to keep getting very agitated with people asking questions or offering alernative suggestions. I'm still relatively new to the CMRA and I've seen a couple of people asking questions that I had been thinking myself (like rearranging schedules) that I've been unwilling to ask cause it seems people get their head bitten off for trying to understand things or offer opinions for changes.

I understand it could get really frustrating always repeating yourself. Maybe you could make a sticky post that has the answeres to those repeating questions.

We need some forum where riders can offer suggestions for change and they can be respectably debated.

That's exactly the point. All of these things have been gone over so many times, that it does get frustrating to have to rehash them over and over again. Don't you think that a lot of changes have been made over the years to get where we are today? And who's going to volunteer to put together the frequently asked and answered questions page that you're suggesting?

Walter is my hero. He works harder than anyone I know. He spends countless hours outside of the race weekend tending to the trailer, equipment, schedules and answering hundreds of phone calls from riders with questions for virtually no compensation.

On race weekends he works from 5:30 a.m. until everything is done and on Sunday he's the last one to leave the track after picking up and packing everything left behind by everyone who hauls butt out of the track when the last checkered flag falls. Without complaint. He didn't leave TWS until midnight because there was no one there left to help. Everything all day...that's what he does.

Walter has spent a lot of time juggling the schedule so that it works the best way that it can and sometimes has to make decisions on the fly during the weekend. He's thought it through and been-there, done-this all before to get where we are today.

DITTO!!!

I smell rotting horse!!

Walter,

All I can say is you must love doing this because most folks wouldn't put in the time and effort for the *****in/complaining/groaning that gets thrown at you.

Folks, Sunday schedule WOULD have went off without a hitch but **** happens. Mostly due to the fact that "racer safety" was foremost in mind. That speaks volumes...along with all the other stuff the Walter deals with on any given weekend.

Most of us are out there on the track to play and racer camaraderie so lets just call Sunday "a day" and move on to Hallett.


Lastly...no crashing on Sunday allowed [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

All of our staff, with the exception of Nancy, is VERY part time. They can all assure you it cost them a great deal more to "work" a race then they
are paid by us, the CMRA.

Part of their compensation is the fact that they
LOVE working the races. When ever they seem short
with someone with questions, it's not because they are mean or a ***. It's because they have
answered that question 100 times a year, every year. Take a look at the TWS info thread in the
anouncements section. None of that is new news.

Be easy with the assumptions about nonflexability
on the part of operations of a race day. Most people you deal with in a CMRA officials shirt have been doing this for 10+ years and they do what they do because it works. Things always change and will. Be assured they have thought
everything they do through and continue to every
weekend every year. No one wants a race day to
run more smoothly then the people in charge of
making it so.

Thank You to ALL the CMRA officials. Your passion
makes ours obtainable.

The problems last Sunday were because of crashes requiring transport. Most of us don't like laps being reduced and Walter doesn't want to shorten races anymore than you do. He knows there will be things outside of his control on race day but he doesn't have a crystal ball, he can't predict the injuries and clean-up time required to continue the day.

I'm not questioning why riders this past weekend were transported, if you have all of your faculties about you this is between you and the EMT’s. I would only like to ask all of us to consider what goes on inside an ambulance.

EMT's are always going to take a better safe than sorry approach which is what they are supposed to do and we thank you for that. If your lungs are filling up with fluid better let them take you to the hospital.
However if you are stable but still require a visit to the hospital hopefully you have someone who can take you there so the races can go on. I've seen countless racers crawl out of the ambulance and have a friend take them to the hospital. Bottom line is if we run out of professional EMT’s and transports the races grind to a halt period.

I would say that cutting lunch for those poor corner workers is out of the question. I think about them from time to time, maybe while going through their corner (hmm, might be why I'm not going faster).
They get there at the crack of dawn and the only break they get at all is at lunch. We have all sat in a corner at one time or another. I remember what a long day it was.
I raced #19 last weekend, sure it was late, but it wasn't near as late as #22.
It's all relative I reckon.
I want 6 laps too (unless I ever do get a holeshot, then I want the checkered right off). It's all a big fat trade off to have road racing fun.
I will be holding WEEBLE class at Hallett for those who want to see the light on staying upright. It too takes compromise, in my case in the form of slowwwwwwwwwwwwwww lap times. But I hate pain, suffering and fixing broken bike parts.
I am a pilot thus I am lazyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Edit for poor spelling and Rosy who didn't show, again! Where are ya Rosy? Come out and play little buckaroo.

Cliff notes: what Walter said.

Buck, put a sock in it. Touch minis and you're dead. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Chuck notes: what Yuliya said!

Comments: All you people should start treating Walter like the First Sargent that he is. He should make it clear that if you have a problem that he has to deal with himself, the only guarntee is that YOU will not like how he handles it!

Comments on comments:

1. Race day - if you have any problem, talk to at least 1 CMRA offical to see if can be resolved without bothering Walter. Those officals will know what to do, and if it includes bothering Walter they will see to it that his time is conserved.

2. Race day - I suggest the Club provide each current and former member of the Board with a modest banner indicating their status and that that banner be displayed in their pit area. And that these folks agree, constrained by their own needs in the pits, to take time to answer questions from other (new) racers.

3. On this message board - Have an informal policy that Nancy and current board members and CMRA officals reply such as they always do. And that Walter generally let these well qualified folks explain reality. That is, we should all be able to ask questions and get answers without expecting Walter himself to give the same answer over and over. Actually, I like the way Nancy explains how dogs hunt!

4. On a lighter note - Nancy, how does Bill manage to pass me on the inside and the outside at the same time?

Chuck

Yeah,

What Cathy and Yuliya said.
Leave it to the ladies to be all reasonable and stuff ( _most_ of the time, anyway)
[img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Status Quo... nothing changes, call it a rotting horse and forget it. I feel for Walter too, I've spent more than my share of Sunday evenings to help roll up the air fence and get the show packed up.(pretty much anytime the airfence was deployed for the last two seasons, except Hallet) Have any of you chiming in? Don't recall seeing the faces associated with the names. I guess it's the management guy in me that sees if you put the mini's last on Sunday, the workers from T4,5,6,7,8,& 8a could help roll up the airfence, clear the back section corner stands, and get Walter on the road home sooner. Only for the TWS 8hour of course. I'm not at all complaining about the way Walter runs the show, simply looking for ways to make it better for everyone and easier for the Big Guy. Lighten up folks, without discussion of ideas, we might all still be part of Mexico, or heaven forbid England. Hey Cathy, got any scientist or free thinkers we can burn at the stake like the good old days?

thats a pretty good idea buck. escecially for the 8 hour weekend when we are squeezing in a few more races into an already busy sunday. cheers to walter for still putting on a great show no matter what the day brings. see yall at hallett

Quote:

saying it won't work & its been tried before, is a lame anwser

So, the suggestion is that we forsake the advantage of Walter's MANY years of experience and start from scratch each season? Yeah, sounds like the key to success to me.

PO'd 'cause Walter doesn't take/waste the time to explain the literally hundreds of bits of data and experience that factor into his decisions? He's given summaries for lots of 'em and always gets 'bit' for it because someone doesn't accept the summary as an indication of the much more detailed evaluation that goes into things which would take pages to explain. Bottom line - either you trust that Walter is open to the bona-fide good new idea or you don't. And if you think that for some perverse reason he would not try to utilize a good suggestion you are nuts.

The military analogy is good. Walter's not like a 1st Sergeant ... he IS the General responsible for the whole shebang. Ya'll are damned lucky that you have Omar Bradley, the GI's General, and not Westmoreland.

Respectfully, Buck - you have not done "more than your share" of airfence rollup - even if you have helped a lot, and any help is appreciated I'm sure. The reasons given to me for not having CW's or a novice crew pack fence ASAP upon last race end is that 1) if rolled wrong it doesn't load right in the trailer or deploy right at the next race (huge PITB), and 2)Walter needs a chance to look it over so he can see what needs to be pulled from the trailer and repaired/maintained by HIM before the next race. Maybe you would like to propose, organize and be 1st Sergeant for a crew dedicated (consistent race-to-race)and trained for the role (roll?) of packing airfence after Walter has had a chance to look 'em all over post event?

Air fence and trailer packing, like many of the logistics chores Walter takes care of, require skill and knowledge that are not practical to re-train someone to do each weekend - perhaps you all have experienced the situation where it is ultimately more work to let some well-intentioned nimrod "help" than it is to do the work yourself? Walter accepts that as a part of his job to help you race.

From my observations, the one thing that could help him at event end is a small (3-5) crew of folks that are consistent race-to-race to do tote-and-lift work at his direction. Consistent is key so they can learn the ropes. There's a certain amount of 'wait' time involved just because things have to go into the trailer in sequence and it can't be rushed - so they gotta be able to stay late and tolerate the fact that some of that late time Walter spends taking care of his own family and other matters.

I'm not suggesting that folks shouldn't make suggestions - I'm suggesting that you consider and make suggestions without demanding to know why they may not be acted on but with faith that they are properly considered in light of the whole objective of the event.

There have been many, many changes in the way races are run and supported in the short last 3 years I've been hanging around - many "invisible" to racers but all contributing to make it possible to handle the diverse interests of what is now regularly a 600-700 entry event while keeping safety paramount, staff numbers (and therefore fees) as low as possible, all with extraordinary overall success by any measure.

Is it perfect? No, this is a human endeavor. But your race director is almost superhuman in his skill and effort. "Almost" - human and therefore capable of error. But anyone who suggests that any action by Walter is "lame" or that he is refusing to try new ideas for any reason other than because his GOOD JUDGMENT tells him it is not in the overall interest of the RACERs needs a serious reality check.

rant over - flame on

I have to ChaChaChime in.
How can the schedule improve??? On this fact, we all want to utilize the past experience/expertise of the CMRA staff in conjunction with what may be brilliant suggestions from riders/racers. Certainly there are always ways to improve. Racers by nature are passionate about what we do and so the words we write here get misinterpreted and flare tempers. I know Buck is trying to improve what we all do. We just need a civilized discussion on this point. And I know General Walker orchestrates one hell of a show but IMHO he does need more trained troops to wrap up the show on Sunday Night (yes, I have stayed and helped on occasion). Perhaps a few folks who can stay and do it Sunday night at their home track. (TWS for me).
Where do we discuss these issues??? What is the mechanism for a club member to make a suggestion that can be taken seriously and acted upon??? Certainly not the message board. Hell, it would be a full time job just to read way too many posts to be meaningful. JJJJust a few thoughts... I do want to help make the club better.

In the past two seasons I have not been there to help Walter tear down four times. I have always been there to do set up on Thursdays. Sometime we have help, most of the time it is Walter, Barry and myself. Tear down is not a fun time but is part of the race weekend. If I can get home at 4am then some of you members who live a lot closer than I do might think about staying and lending a hand. Walter would be most thankful and some of the other staff could get home a little earlier. Also as was pointed out, the staffs day starts at dark am and goes until dark. As far as our 'long?' lunch break come have lunch with us sometime and see how much break there really is as most of us are kept busy answering questions or processing paper work that should have been turned in on time. Some of the riders (a lot of the time the same people) seem to think rules and deadlines are for everyone else!!! Sorry if I sound a bit ticked, but that happens when people bust their butt and then catch bs.
Peace, Kevin, the grumpy
tech guy

I have to agree with the grumpy old tech guy when it comes to lunches. I love you guys and my job, but I do like a few minutes of peace to eat my lunch. For 15 min. I hide out in my camper to eat. This Sunday just as I came out, Walter had just pulled up and immediately was swarmed by people with problems and issues. Now, he don't mind because when he took this position he knew what it entailed. BUT, sometimes other staff members can help you. I started running interference for him so he could get a second to get his bearings. He had just cleaned up numerous crashes, had been stopped by several people before he could even get to registration and then he had a protest to deal with when he got there. I don't think he ever did get his lunch!

As far as helping at the end of the day, yeah, we could use some help. I used to help him myself but, I have to get our kids bathed and dressed for bed since they have school the next day. Granted he's pretty **** about how the trailor is packed, but he has to be so everything fits. You would think that a 36 ft. trailor would have lots of extra room, but we have lots of stuff to put in it. Some one to lift the boxes (we can tell you how and where to put them)would be nice and maybe some corner workers with a truck (or anyone else) could round up the dollies and other corner gear and bring it to a central location. The guy at TWS helped by doing this and saved him about an hour. That was great! We got out at 11:45 pm. Just 1 or 2 people would make a difference.

Don't think we're complaining because we're not. We love this organization and all of the people associated with it. Walter has been a member for a long time and I came on board when we started dating. We rearrange our lives to work for you and love doing it. I spend my birthday and will spend our anniversary (which by the way is the Saturday at Hallett) at the track just like a few other wives/ girlfriends. We even plan our vacation around the CMRA schedule like many of our staff members.

OK, I'm through ranting now. Just please don't ask him to cut the lunches of our hard working staff. We barely get time to eat and usually is not longer than 20 min. We still have to ride the spectator lap because we still have a few idiots that think they can ride any which way, disregarding the rules of the ride and ignoring the safety of their passenger or those who are close by. If we have a crash during the spectator lap, you can kiss it good-bye, forever.

OK, now I'm through. See ya'll at Hallett. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Here's a thought: How bout the prov nov's helping with air-fence on Sunday's. After they work corners, they can assist and get first hand experience with the air fence modules. Maybe its far-fetched, maybe its not.

Although it goes without saying that you guys (CMRA, ie, Walter, Kim, Nancy, Alan, Kevin, and MANY MANY more) are my heroes, I have to say it again. Thanks for the hard work.

Here's one suggestion that might save a combined 20-30 minutes throughout the day: have everybody drive the SHORT course on the cool down lap instead of driving the whole track. All you really need is for the T3 corner worker to stand close to wheelie hill waving a flag to remind those who forget, or who "missed" the riders meeting. The only time when it may compromise safety is in combined expert/amateur races, where the tail end of the racers may still be on their hot lap. In this case, run the whole track for cool down, or have that corner worker hold everyone back. Of course this exception will probably negate the whole idea... so...

Ideally it'd be nice to have everyone exit the track at the outside of 3 and pit in that way, but that would require some minor modifications by track management; we don't want to go there now, do we...

Anyway, just ideas.

Great minds think alike Brett. We started doing that at OHR.
The problem was at TWS we had no PROVNOVS cornerworking on Sunday.
Andy, I like the turn 3 idea also but the only exit there is rough and muddy when it rains.
Thanks for the input guys.

Great idea Brett is right!! I suggested this last year or the year before that pro-nov's be required to help with either a set up or take down of the fence. That way they get hands on experience on how to do it right, which only means there will be more folks with the knowledge to do it the right way. You will probably even get a few who enjoy it and might there fore want to do it more often. I remember driving the pits looking for fence help last year and most folks slink away or look the other way until the moment has passed and they are safe for any form of contribution. I'll offer my truck and body in any way that can help make life easier for the staff. Make no mistake, I'm in to help not just suggest, and apparently offend. I think that as a member of the club everyone should be able to work out just one weekend a season where we can stay to help. If everyone stayed an hour or two at the track closest to thier home, we'd have more help than Walter would probably know what to do with. Just let me know where I can help, and I'll be there. I'm not just a *****er....... I want to help.

Possibly just send everyone through the short corse after the checkerd flag flies? That'd still save some measurable time I would think?

Quote:

Originally posted by Walter Walker:
Andy, I like the turn 3 idea also but the only exit there is rough and muddy when it rains.

Short corse is what Andy ment I believe.

That is a good idea.

I bet that would save several minutes between races.

Good show Mr. Galindo!

I think the idea about using the short course has come up before. The problem is the leaders might end up cutting in front of people who are still racing. Yeah they are in the back, but they are still racing.

Exiting in T3 would work if it were paved. Other wise it would bring back memories of exiting in T1 at OHR. That wasn't very fun at all.