2016 New Expert List

[Kyle Coles]

Couldn't we just add a system for people who protest a bump where they score points for podiums, say, 1 pt for 3rd, 2 pts for 2nd, 3 pts for 1st once you get to x number of points (10 pts or whatever) you get bumped to expert? Takes the guess work out of the hands of the BOD and makes sandbagging to get contingency money impossible for more than a round or two.

I don't think it would be a terrible idea to take some contingency away from novice races and add to the places that score contingency in expert. So, say the top 5 or 6 experts get contingency. I always thought it was weird you could score just a much contingency money/coupons winning a novice race as an expert. But I really don't know much about what goes into getting contingency and sponsors set up for the races so I'm probably just talking way over my head.

[Michael Snyder]

Ya know I get the lets stop the sandbagging but really lets stop contingency for novices? Sorry but without the novices showing up each race weekend the organization couldn't afford it. Novices are racers too, sorry if we are an insult to all you professional experts. How about we let the people who actually put up the money to say where it goes. Pathetic turn of comments on this thread, pathetic....lets respect all racers who try as hard as they might. Allen you went down a notch in my book for even starting this...

[David Proler]

I went the other route. No wins or podiums outside of endurance. I could careless about contingency or trying to be the fastest novice. I just want to get faster and after feeling a little timid at MSRH, I must say I feel must more comfortable and feel much safer with the experts.

Looking forward to TWS!

[robert duncan]

I agree David its no comparison to racing in novice. I think let people ride no matter what color plates i love big grids and seeing riders sty riding all this picking on people is bull if they like being the fastest novice so what its usually a expert who complaints anyway unless you have a group of novices complaining who cares .

[David Proler]

I'm just happy to be out there progressing. That's a win in my book. To each his own - just as long as it's done safely.

[Rab McNaught]

So, when I revived this thread yesterday, I did so because my complaint was simply "new experts simply disappear from the new expert list with no notification or explanation to the members". Names just disappear due to a behind-the-scenes protest, and it's swept under the carpet and mostly unnoticed. The thread seemed to go straight off this issue - does anyone here support that the names disappear from the list without any explanation?

I think this should be fixed, so that at least there is a notification sent out to members on a protest status. This is easy to fix - Nancy just puts an update saying "XXX protested expert status and it was approved by CMRA", and updates the list with what has happened this year with protests. This firstly discourages the practice of protesting, and reduces the potential for gossip and confusion around this.

On the subject of New Expert's protesting, personally, and this is only my opinion, which I'm allows to have and vocalize - I don't think there is any grounds for anyone on a new expert list to contest an automatic promotion to expert. Here's why - to be automatically promoted to expert, you have to do 8-10 races in a season, and have a good enough rider index and lap times to show that you are fast enough to be an expert. Due to this system, which does work rather well, everyone on the New Expert List is fast enough and capable enough to be in expert races, and has NO grounds for protesting the promotion. There are no big mistakes here - CMRA aren't promoting riders at the back of the Novice pack by accident. If you are on the New Expert List, CMRA has deemed you an expert, and "not being comfortable", or whatever other reasons come up simply are not good enough. Honestly, when you give this some calm thought, there isn't any good reason for someone who is automatically promoted to be an expert to turn around and say "I should be a novice". I did cite an example earlier in this thread of someone coming back to racing after an extended period of not racing or illness, and this may be an example where someone could be demoted. I don't think there is any other justifiable reasons for protest. I'm curious what other reasons have been approved by CMRA in the past to come off a New Expert List.

This, coupled with reviewing the results from MSRH, riders who have previously protested being experts and disappeared from said new expert list, do rather well. There is nothing wrong with this, and it's not unexpected by any means. You would expect these riders to at least be getting Novice podiums, and probably winning Novice championships. If you are in a novice championship, you should be riding to your full ability and trying to win, so implementing something where riders are on a watch list for sandbagging is not a system which can work in my opinion - it's too complicated and could be unfair. None of this posting is aimed at a specific rider, but I think from the comments yesterday, we all acknowledge that sandbagging can happen, experts can protest and then come back as a novice and dominate, maximimizing contingency money and trophies. If this does happen, it is poor sportsmanship and there needs to be measures in place to stop it. I'm not objecting to the idea that riders could be promoted mid-season if they have previously been promoted to expert, protested it, and then dominated their championships, but it needs to be a fair process, even to those riders, and I don't think this can be made fair.

THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THIS HAPPENING COMPLETELY AND BE FAIR TO EVERYONE IS TO 100% BAN PROTESTS ON NEW EXPERT LISTS AND WRITE THIS INTO A RULE BOOK.

The fact that new experts can protest their status and go back to being a novice is at the very root of the problem here. Petitioning CMRA for a demotion after an extended period of absense from riding is a different matter and needs handled differently, and on a case-by-case basis.

Further, on the subject of removing contingency from novices, this is ultimately up to sponsors, not to CMRA, so it's a bit of a mute point here...sponsors can do whatever they want to do, and it's not CMRA's place to dictate this. I think the underlying concern here leading to these suggestions is that there are incentives to remain a fast novice, and win, rather than be a middle-of-the-pack expert. I think everyone here acknowledges the importance of novices riders in CMRA, and there's no reason for anyone to be offended here around this topic. I say overall, we all need to encourage riders to become experts, and that encouragement can come from a number of sources, not simply contingency.

Around Mr Proler, he has stated a few comments ago that he feels comfortable as an expert after round 1. I think everyone here should tip their hat to him next time they see him and give the kudos deserved here to pushing himself to move up. If Mr Proler is comfortable being an expert, when he wasn't automatically promoted, then why aren't riders on the automatical promotion list not comfortable and protesting...

[Walter Walker]

Well it can go both ways, there certainly are those sandbaggers who find a good enough excuse to stay novice. On the flip side there are those who are bumped who maybe shouldn't have been. Walters son placed in quite a few races and wasn't bumped Walter protested that 14ish year old kid had no business racing against experts and wasn't mature enough to ride with them. And it's a very valid point, therefore he stayed novice another year, won a lot of races and was then promoted. Trey was never given the initial bump to end up on the expert list because Walter is on the inside and explained it before Treys name was ever on the list. Not everyone one else has that inside connection so their kid or their own adult name may end up on the list.

Dennis,

You asked me in another thread why I feel sorry for you. Well this is why. Your glass is always half empty. In the absence of all the facts you always seem to assume that something secret or even underhanded is going on. That's why I feel sorry for you Dennis.

[William Guthrie]

Contingency is in the hands of the vendors, if they wish to foster novice riders so be it. The club is responsible for managing the move from novice to expert. Make it objective as possible then no worries. In 2005 I raced against a 2nd year novice who showed up up like an AMA racer, I didn't even have tire warmers until mid-season; who knew...

[Dennis King]

Dennis,

You asked me in another thread why I feel sorry for you. Well this is why. Your glass is always half empty. In the absence of all the facts you always seem to assume that something secret or even underhanded is going on. That's why I feel sorry for you Dennis.

I don't see it as the glass being half empty and not sure why you do either. Y'all made the decision no to bump your kid, it was a valid reason that he wasn't mature enough and there was nothing wrong with it. I fail to see how that might be seen as something underhanded. Would you bump someone elses 13ish y/o kid if they said they needed another novice season to ride a 600? if so then that thought might cross my mind. But you didn't and it didn't so you're creating your own problems. I guess it's me that should feel sorry for you.

[Dave Felio]

My goal is to get bumped by the CMRA. I don't care how or when, but I'll be excited about racing with experts just as soon as I'm told I'm good enough.

An no, I'm not going to make that claim myself. Because it's my goal to get bumped. Not sure why that would be considered dishonorable, but it's my goal so it is what it is. I couldn't get it done last year in LW, so I'm going to take the opportunity to move up to litre bikes this year as a Novice.

In the meantime, would somebody please explain what Novice contingency out there is worth sandbagging for?