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Thread: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

  1. #31

    Re: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

    Texas Mini GP ( http://www.tmgps.8k.com ) races at Katy 4 races a season and Denton two races a season. Katy is a .33 mile, 7 turn kart track ( http://www.racekarts.com ). I have raced 250s, I have raced 125s, let me tell ya, if you wanna learn corner speed, buy a mini and race the kart tracks! BTW, I'm 6 foot and 210 lbs and regularly fold up on an NSR50 Honda for 1 hour stints at Katy, Denton, and CMRA mini endurance events. Don't tell me my RS125 was cramped!!!!!!!!!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

    TMGP races a different class structure to CMRA, but if you have a TMGP legal bike, there is a CMRA class for it. TMGP runs YSR production bikes in SS, water cooled 50s or air cooled 100s in lightweight, 125 four strokes and 65cc two strokes in superbike, and 80cc two strokes in unlimited (and a few 150cc cheater four strokes that aren't supposed to be legal, but no one cares). Endurance is Saturday, sprints Sunday. There's lots of age and weight classes and stuff like "big wheel" or "small wheel". The age and weight stuff is all based on lightweight bikes or you can run a YSR in 'em. There's even a backwards race (my favorite) where any legal bike can race, no hot lap, no practice, race the track the reverse direction.

    TMGP is quite laid back. Costs are cheap. Entry first class is $30, second class is $10, each additional is $5 for sprint classes. Endurance is $20 an hour and $50 total for the two hour races.

    Racing minis allows you to race TMGP and CMRA and never be board during a race season. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] With a mini motard, you can even do some mad dawg flat track in the off season!

    I've got a LOT of track time on 125s and 250s. My comments about the tuning and maintenance routine are aimed at someone not familiar with the bikes, maybe not that mechanically minded, and trying to learn to RIDE A MOTORCYCLE. Yes, I totally agree that there is no other big bike for me that matches a GP's handling. The things are connections of your body to the track. The brakes are UNREAL. You just think the bike where you want it to go and it goes there. You don't muscle ANYthing on a GP. They lean until it seems you're scraping paint off the fairing and they'll lean some more. Draggin' a knee is a matter of not sticking it out too far or you'll break a patella off. Nope, there is no street bike experience that can ever hope to come close to a GP. If you've never ridden a GP, you owe it to yourself to do it before you quit racing, for sure. But, for a newb who needs to concentrate on RIDING rather than tuning, I think he or she'd be better off with a properly set up SV or Aprilia cup bike just due to the fact that you don't have to worry about air density, plug chops, tape on the radiator, rebuilding the top end every 300 racing miles, putting a crank in it every 1300 miles, checking those friggin' reed pedals routinely cause they tend to fracture, checking clutch plate thickness every weekend on TZs (friggin' dry clutches EAT plates!), etc, etc, etc. If you wanna learn to ride, you want a bike you just climb aboard and thumb the starter IMHO. Yeah, I have no problem with the GP routine, but I've been doing it a while now. You tend to forget what it's like trying to learn to ride AND tune.

    All the above said, no SV650 can compare to the NSR50 on a kart track for learning how to ride! If you can't carry corner speed on a mini, you'll KNOW it. There will be no doubt! Even at Oak Hill it will be blatantly obvious. Lots of fast guys learned on minis first. There's two clubs that race minis. Minis are cheaper and if you can afford two weekends a year on a 600, you can run every friggin' race in CMRA and TMGP on a mini and the volume of track time alone is precious for a newb rider.

    If you ain't broke like me, you should ADD a mini to your racing fleet! I raced 125GP for several years with a TZ125, then an RS125 while racing my 80cc motard same weekends. I sold the RS and am now a mini only kinda guy. If I ever get a little more income I might buy a 250 cause I have had the urge, but really, at 53 years of age November 1, I think I've grown out of big bikes and the little bikes give me all the thrills I need. Besides, you're closer to the ground and going slower when it spits you off. I don't grow bone mass like I did when I was younger.
    WRW Racing Mini Endurance

  2. #32

    Re: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

    My first road race was in 1966 in England and I am still alive and still racing. That is because I started off small and worked up gradually.

    Now I am old(55) and have worked back down - Start small and cheap (low maintenance low cost bikes) You might break a few bones but you won't break the bank and your heart when you fall.

    Feel free to call me and I'll be happy to share some thoughts.

    FYI I do have a great little starter bike for sale - see for sale section.

    Grant Dawson
    Spring TX.
    713 539 5534

  3. #33

    Re: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

    that's the kinda info I like. I like that schedule. 6 weekends with TMGP and 10 with CMRA. I am pretty mechanical. I have built several cars and a couple of big bikes so I don't think that will be a problem. The only thing I am not really sure on is Carbs... yeah, I'll have to learn. I really liked the GP bikes I saw at TWS and I think I would enjoy the mini class... But I also like how tuff the motards are. I watched a guy lowside in turn 3 at OHR and didn't break a thing. Picked it up, I teched him and off he went to the pits... So it's a deffinate. I want to do a mini... but there are still sooooo many options. 125 or 250? mini or 'tard? 2 stroke or 4 stroke? Air cooled or water cooled? I have no experience with 2 strokes but I like to learn... Right now I"m thinkin' a 125 GP cause it forces the corner speed even more...
    All I really care about is something I can do TMGP on AND CMRA on... be competitive, and learn cornerspeed. I don't mind workin' on stuff and I pick things up quick.
    So some people who know about this stuff recommend to me your top 3 or 4 pics for a mini that qualifies in both groups. Please include a couple of good things and any major drawbacks to each bike and a price range that a race prepped bike can be found for. This will let me know what I"m walking into. Ie. I didn't know TZ's ran dry clutches... I don't know the difference between a YSR,NSR,TZ,GP... sorry for all the ?'s but I want to make an educated decision and I don't have an education... lol.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Tony Wang's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

    well, as i understand it, GP 125 bikes won't be allowed in the mini classes. however, you can run a GP chassis with an cr80 or yz85 motor. there are a lot of folks out there with that setup for running in the mini classes. i think a total package will run you somewheres around the 3k and up range. or if you're wanting something to do over the winter, you can find yourself a rolling chassis and a motor and build one...
    Sprint #870
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  5. #35

    Re: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

    what's the difference between the CR80 and YZ85? Could I also get a 125 motor and swap them between weekends? Is there one bike that would be competitive in both groups? TMGP and CMRA?

  6. #36
    Senior Member Tony Wang's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

    Sorry Russel. Someone else is going to have to chime in on this one. I don't know a whole lot about minies. I just have my 125 and, if all goes well, will be riding Pierson's new mini next season.

    I would say that with what little I do know, it may not be worth it to swap out motors between weekends. You may be better off having two bikes. One for 125GP races and one for mini races...
    Sprint #870
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  7. #37

    Re: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

    CR80 is a honda MX motor. YZ85 is a Yamaha MX motor. The F4 class is dominated by MX85s in 125 chassis.

    Why don't you build a mini motard? You like the tards, and yes, they're very crash worthy. I love my KX tard. Get with me sometime and you can take it out for some practice laps. It's a HOOT! I wouldn't go with a GP for TMGP. Oh, it can be ridden just fine, but it's not all that comfy. If you wanna endurance with TMGP, don't go with an 80. There's no unlimited class for endurance and the biggest bikes are 125 four strokes or 65cc two strokes. You could get a TTR125L, disc brake model. That's a cheap and competitive mini tard. Will Gruy and Tyler McDonald ride 'em in TMGP stuff. They're huge fun.

    Just some thoughts. Consider mini motard, though. An 80-85cc motard is easy and cheap to build and quite competitive in TMGP sprints or CMRA F4 if you ride it well. I even rode mine in the big bike motard class at Oak Hill once. I got beat, but I had fun!
    WRW Racing Mini Endurance

  8. #38

    Re: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

    BTW, if you don't mind doing the work, you could ride a mini in sprints saturday and swap motors saturday night for 125GP sunday. Personally, I'd rather do something else than wrench at the race track. LOL

    Here's a pic of me on my 80 (#157) chasing Joe Prussiano on his cheater XR. He crashed and I ran over his leg in that race and it didn't even hurt him! Another plus for mini racing!

    http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=9/24619241297.jpg&s=x4

    Here's a video of the start/first lap of that race. It was at Katy last race weekend this year. This is the unlimited. You can see all sorts of bikes running in that class.

    http://media.putfile.com/PICT015515
    WRW Racing Mini Endurance

  9. #39

    Re: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

    I probly wouldn't do the motor swap just for sprints on Sun. I have the R6 to sprint. But I could do it between weekends and run TMGP.... How hard would it be to swap motors in a GP frame? So a mini 'tard would fit in a class with TMGP? That sounds like a good idea.. Tough, get to learn, AND race with two organizations...

  10. #40

    Re: Newbie; 250 or 600 to learn best? Opinions?

    I guess it would depend on your 85cc mounts, but pulling or installing the RS125 motor isn't a big deal, about an hour, maybe, to install everything to race ready with safety wire.
    WRW Racing Mini Endurance

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