I am a little taken aback... The 500 SuperStock rules specifically allow the EX500 by name and state air and water cooled twins up to 500cc... What happened to this?
Printable View
I am a little taken aback... The 500 SuperStock rules specifically allow the EX500 by name and state air and water cooled twins up to 500cc... What happened to this?
Thanks for pointing that out John but I need to point out that the guidelines that I posted are still being fine tuned. I'm sorry if you got your hopes up.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Black
You do realize how dangerous it is toying with a middle aged man's emotions are, don't you?
I'm not thinking only of her, just citing her as an example. Many of the smaller (ie, younger and/or female) racers come to mind...Newton, Gore, Doolan, the young blonde girl who races (can't remember her name), etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasey Lewis
And who's dumping over a grand, much less up to 3 grand in their 250 motors? We wouldn't run the 250 if we had to put that much into a motor.
Original post has been updated.
No it will be allowed in F4 also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Anderson
Exactly why we are not going with a weight limit at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Harvey
Shame on those who have gone this route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Harvey
FYI, there will be mandatory post race inspections in the 300 and 500 classes.
Yes I do. :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by John Black
Yeah that would be awesome. Especially for those that dropped $7000 + mods to compete in that class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
Can you elaborate on this please? Specifically, you know that bikes ran in 2013 were Superbike or ones being built for the upcoming 2014 season are?Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
I thought I had my game plan down for 2014 but now I guess, like everyone else here, I'll have to wait for the rules to be finalized.
On one hand I like the idea of a spec class to keep the machines evenly matched but on the other hand I enjoy adding a bit here and there. Maybe the latter is to compensate for being slow? lol I can say with a great deal of certainty is that with the addition of the 300 and especially the 500, the 250 will not be competitive for overall finishes in endurance. Not even sure the EX300 will be. Sad because I planned on buying a 300 this weekend and starting my build. I simply refuse to spend ~$6-8k on a bike in stock form and then have to add all the "race goodies" to compete in "mini" classes. And you can call it whatever you want but these are mini classes. If not, let 'em run in BBE.We did pretty well in endurance this year. Not sure we'll have the $$$ to stay competitive in 2014. Sad.
This one is likely off the table now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Millsap
No specific info but I hear the rumors. I chose to wait for someone to protest but no one did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Millsap
Not even close to mini classes anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Millsap
Not sure how it'll play out but our team is going with the EX300 platform. It's really the most feasible. The best balance of investment and being semi-competitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
Ahh. Gotcha. And I agree with that course of action. Or lack thereof. Hard to fathom the rumors aren't true though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
Maybe not but I guess that depends on your definition of mini. You'd be hard pressed to sell me on the CBR500R being a mini for sure. The EX250 though... Not such a hard sale. Yet they'll be gridded up together. If not in the sprints, in the endurance for sure. I don't agree with running 250s and 500s on the same grid, even in separate waves/classes. Same for the 300s and 500s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
I do want to say though, even though I don't agree with some of the (proposed) rules, I do acknowledge and agree with the club embracing the new generation of machines and trying to find a place for them on the grids. To do so this quickly is also very noteworthy.
You're a smart guy Jeremy, very smart, so don't go all "duh" on me now. If they don't weight what Becka does, and they're still absolutely flying, my math cries foul. But we all know my math isn't very good. :puke: And i enjoyed chasing Doolan this year, pack 40-60lbs on him i might get just a little closer! I'll just have to hope he can't get away from the dinner table in the off season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Harvey
Without cracking the engine open will this do any good? FYI i'm a parts swapper not a mechanic so i'm curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
Sorry, my huevos weren't big enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
I'm only switching platforms because i can not work on carburators (can't even spell that), the EX300 offers an FI system that i can swap parts on and make work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Millsap
the 250 and 500s weigh roughly the same... not sure why one would be considered a mini and the other not... they damn sure belong on the grid together way before a 250 belongs on the grid with a NSR/NSF/KLX/XR F7 bike, i.e. a true mini...
I have to say, very disappointed that the mini endurance has been replaced with a series that is less inclusive as opposed to more inclusive...
I really don't understand weight limits. They didn't make Kareem play on his knees. Usain Bolt doesn't wear a weight vest. Are we going to hobble the more talented riders? Will Ty have to race 1 handed? Why would we saddle the weak with a heavier load? Weight is a strength just like agility, balance and quickness. I've raced kids on true minis and been walked on straights due to weight but I can lose weight if it's that important to me. Until then I'll either make it up in the corners or accept that 180lbs is not an ideal weight. I certainly don't expect anyone else to carry that burden for me because I want to win but I don't want to work for it
whew, ok. That feels better now. :)
EXCELLENT post Scott.
It's clear that no one here understands the concept of minimum weight limits. From the comments posted it seems that most think that we would take the heaviest rider in the field and force everyone to ad weight to match that. That's just silly! To be clear no minimum weight limit has been announced and likely will not be implemented for 2014. Move on.
375lbs vs 425lbsQuote:
Originally Posted by John Black
39hp vs 54hp
Not even 'roughly' the same by any reasonable standard.
As far as putting the 250 on the same grid as the NSR/NSF/KLX/XR F7 bikes, I bet if those bikes showed up in nearly the numbers the 250s did they'd be on a grid by themselves. Last round at TWS I counted 25 bikes on the ESS/F4 grid. The reality is that these are not profitable races for the CMRA. No one turns up to race them. They've been given chance after chance and the base is just not there. This is not gonna make me popular among true mini guys but maybe that's why the TMGP is around? The only flaw in my logic is the fact that the 250s show up to the grid by the dozens and we are still going to have to battle with the 500s. Again, I applaud the embracing of the new bikes, just don't agree with some of the proposed class groupings.
as compared to a 160lb true mini, those bikes weigh roughly the same... and yes, people used to race those bikes before they were all squeezed out by the 250s... the 250s battling with the 500s is no different than the BBE with lightweight bikes and the liter bikes... they all weigh roughly the same and are basically the same sized bikes, but, make different HP numbers... so what?
Thanks for the response, Walter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
It's happened before but the Idiots have won BBE overall two years in a row. It can happen in LW Endurance too.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Black
Totally agree about the 250 not being a mini. When they were first injected to the "mini" class the arguments against that are still true today.
I'm going to print WW's post saying that I can run F4 on my Ape RS125 too… ;)
Wow! That will teach me to look at the board more often!
Thanks Walter...I am sure this is going to require a few bottles of Tums to get through all this...
Give me a place to race, a class to race in, and I'm a happy middle-aged, fat kid!
:wave:
I do know of one 250 that definitely has more motor than ours (the guy doesn't race in CMRA), and knowing who put the bike together, it's definitely SS legal, so I wasn't too surprised to have others make more power, especially if they run race fuel, as we never run anything other than pump. And I figured there were some people trying to extract more power out of them, but I didn't realize they were spending that much (or going outside the rules), and that's what surprised me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasey Lewis
When I would get passed during the last few 250 endurance races, I always considered the pass to be from a more talented rider, not because of a stronger motor. With ours being completely stock (except for the obvious jet kit and exhaust) and still having decent finishes, I wouldn't have thought about doing anything else to the motor; I'd spend money on suspension to replace the stock forks and Elka rear shock we're running before anything else. I've heard the motors can be different though, even in stock configuration, so I guess we just got lucky and found a good one.
Walter, regarding suspension in a spec class, is there any consideration to limiting what can be done there as well, to keep cost down, such as only emulators in the forks (no AK-20 or similar allowed)?
I don't disagree with that... I think the 300s and some of the "more super stock than other 250s" will be able to run with the 500s... or at least keep the 500s honest and if there are issues they can take advantage... hell, david rice and I would have murdered the field on our 20+ year old, heavy, slow dinosaur of a bike that stock barely makes more HP than the EX300... LoPan was powered by the black blood of the earth and would have brought the hell of boiling oil with it to the grid, but, now it is illegal for the class... as it stands, I guess I am going to have to shoe horn sperry into his leathers and we are going to bring the Mori back to play in F4 with those sexy Aprillias... not sure who else is going to bother with running a real race bike with little chance of an overall... AND WHY IS MY CARRIAGE RETURN NOT WORKING!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Anderson
Yes, The plan is to have a list of specific parts that will be allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Harvey
FYI, we have potential vendors working on pricing for complete race ready bikes for lease or purchase for both classes. We are also have potential vendors putting together pricing for race kits for both platforms. We hope that these options will make these classes easy to get into, affordable, and very competitive.
I agree Walter, weighing the heaviest guy would be a silly assumption. However, in a spec class where sprockets and bars are the heavy items on the swappable list, a weight limit suggests at least some stuffing of socks on the 8 year olds. I was just throwing out my 2c and moving on. It's all I have to say on the matter. I won't be arguing it, just needed to get it out. If you were indeed only referring to bike weight in the spec class I apologize for thinking you'd gone all 4 wheel autocross on us and will give you half my mashed potatoes for a week as punishment.
What I'd really like a Yes or No on is whether there's the slightest chance you're still considering a 2 stroke class that could go after endurance overall. My assumption is that your stating the CBR500 will be the only bike in the class means you are not; but I don't want to be caught assuming. and THANK YOU!
Black, you're dating yourself with CARRIAGE return
Walter...most tracks the pits are near the starting grid...TWS, Hallett, and Eagles...what about Cresson when the BBE grid is south of Big Bend (CCW I believe)? Seems like a logistical headache to get over there and back....especially if there is a red flag in the early laps. Just putting this out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
I understood it to mean the goal is to prevent teams from starting from behind the pit wall or elsewhere. Even if the start/finish at MSR is way off yonder, all teams still start their warm-up lap from hot pit. This rule just requires everyone's bike to be present in hot pit 10 minutes before the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz Roy
I think we're a few years off from full on MotoGP style grid starts with umbrella girls, starting carts, and velvet ropes keeping reporters at bay, but I hope I'm wrong.
Ahhhh....okay...gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Phillips
Thank goodness. I was sweating there for a minute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Walker
Well don't quote me yet, Walter may have what you suggested in mind :nana:Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz Roy
If it were a dream world the grids would be filled with tiny minis built by hand with loving care, the 125 GP glass would be 25 strong with nothing but smokers, and the air each race weekend would be tinged with blue smoke and the scent of Castrol 747.
However, due to economics and something called progress, we are instead discussing how much lipstick you gotta put on the ugliest girls at the dance to make them worth riding.
I am Christopher's sad face.
^ true story
Correct, at MSR, ECR, and MSRH we will likely use a false grid (actual marked grid) on pit road. We'll also be adjusting the 5 min board procedure a bit. Instead of opening the track at the 5 board and closing at the 3 board we'll open at the 3 board. Since all machines will already be staged on the grid or false grid no one should miss their warm up lap and the first rider to the grid will not have to wait 3 to 5 mins while other riders trickle in. Also all starting riders will have seen their starting position so gridding for the actual start should be quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Phillips
Thanks Walter for the explanation. And Ted too.
*runs off to price shop velvet ropes
LOL!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Phillips
http://www.crowdcontrolwarehouse.comQuote:
Originally Posted by Ted Phillips
Yes, it is a real web store.
Brian - kindly direct me to all the 250's that have 39 horsepower ... I'll take a dozen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Millsap
I think he means the 300s have 39hp.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Redford
no... he just grabbed a number off the googlewebs... the HP for the 500 is equally exaggerated...
300 is 34-35 stock, I'll take a dozen of those too! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael De Simone
I'll be your huckleberry.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Redford
My "250" makes at least that much power (maybe :nana:)..PM me for the sale price.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...07187440_n.jpg
...i got'em in bulk !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Phillips
Muahahaha
lol:headshake:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staton Shed
Yes, that's what I meant though I'm sure some if the 250s I've seen are putting down more than 39HP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael De Simone
Sorry. I don't own a 300 or a 500. Yet. so yeah, I get my numbers from the interwez. Did you personally dyno these bikes? If not, where are you getting your number from John? How do you know they're exaggerated? And if they're equally exaggerated then wouldn't they still be equally disproportionate?Quote:
Originally Posted by John Black
All I'm saying is that I race 250s because its way more fun than the big bikes. I thought it was cheaper until motors started blowing up and some crashing "happened". lol It is more fun though either way though. But now the line is being blurred. The 500 is not in the same class as a 300. Period. I'll reluctantly make the bump to the 300 but I'm not going to a 500. Just ain't gonna happen. If i want to race big bikes I'd race my big bike. That's my personal stance. Not saying it's right or wrong. It is just my stance. And by the looks of things, my unwillingness to drop the $$$ or up the displacement will exclude me and my team from a chance an overall win for the season. I guess that's the price we'll have to pay. I thought with the huge turnout of 250s we'd secure a place in the club. Yet last year with the 'true' minis (that never showed), and this year with the new 300/500 it's been the 250 class that's been whittled at. I just don't get it.
The fact you posted those numbers shows that you are not quite sure what is actually going on... No biggie...
It is obvious that you are relatively new to the sport and that is okay as well, but, know that there was racing before 2010...
I believe that there is a place for true minis as a learning tool for the little dudes that are coming through the ranks... I also believe that what has happened in the club and the industry as a whole is not necessarily what is the best for a youngster in terms of coming up through the ranks... As a long term racer and as a parent of a little dude that has chosen this sport it concerns me... I also know that Walter is also in the same boat as me as far as bringing a child up through the ranks...
Not sure exactly where I am going with this as vitamin v is in full effect tonight, but, believe you me when I say I am a fan if more racing than less and I want more bikes on the grid than less... I also believe that if you have never ridden a real race bike then you are missing out on one if the true real joys of this world...
Mitch for president in 2015!!!!!!!
Brian Millsap, per your quote: "I thought with the huge turnout of 250s we'd secure a place in the club...I just don't get it."
I trust in our leaders. I don't think the CMRA is going to damage this hugely successful class (at least not knowingly). Too many of us have enjoyed 250s, loved them, invested financially big time into them, and will be racing them for many more years.
Seeing the grids grow from around 10-12 last year to 28 this year has been incredible to witness first-hand. This class is nationally recognized, so much that a top 250 rider from CA visited our series this past season to race against us...knowing our racers are among the most talented in the country, with the fastest growing class of 250s in the nation.
Yea, so we'll have to endurance alongside 300s, 500s, and some faster F4 bikes. BIG DEALl!! A veteran racer predicted that we'll see talented 250 riders beating many 300s and even some 500s next year. I love that!!!! I look forward to seeing it!!!!
NEXX Helmets will be racing a 250 next year in the endurance. We'll be going for the podium in class.
Is it Feb yet?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staton Shed
That's the ONLY 250 I have ever seen that may exceed 39 hp. FTW!!
A 39 hp ninja 250 raced in the CMRA this year?
Our 250's, Desert Brats (Endurance) and my sprint bike fall into the 30-31 hp range that most others I've raced against do. They both have aftermarket pipes and jet kits, that's all the motor work. I really don't think there are a bunch of cheater 250's out there, I can think of a few that may be but for the most part I think everyone is within the rules.
Dyno Shootout: Honda CBR250R vs. Ninja 250 vs. Ninja 300
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/10/05...300-dyno-test/
40 hp Ninja 300
http://www.kawasakininja300.com/foru...0-40-2-hp.html